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SEO client for 3 months, now doing chargebacks

Discussion in 'BlackHat Lounge' started by christianbed, Apr 29, 2017.

  1. christianbed

    christianbed Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    A local business owner contacted me 3 mos ago about doing SEO for his new site. It was a brand new site, which I took from nowhere in the top 100, to, in a number of cases top 10-20 for his keywords.

    I spent a lot of time and money ranking it, only for him to say 'I'm going in a different direction with my SEO now, but thanks for all you've done.'

    Fine, no problem...the guy is a bit weird, so I didn't really care.

    Now, 2 weeks later, I receive a ton of paypal disputes for every transaction where he is claiming that he never received the product.

    I called paypal, explained the situation, pointed to years of business through them without more than 2-3 refunds, and they tell me to submit any evidence that I did the work.

    I can produce this, but I'm just amazed and angry that someone would do this.

    Anyone else been through something like this?
     
  2. Lunaaa

    Lunaaa Elite Member

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    Try to provide evidence, such as text messages where he says something proving you delivered.

    You can always take down his site from rankings by undoing work, and leaving a shitty review on his google review page
     
  3. ziplack

    ziplack Supreme Member

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    go and break his legs
     
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  4. uncutu

    uncutu Elite Member

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    I worked for an seo agency ten years ago. Never had clients do this since we dealt with mailed cheques for payment mostly. My boss was quick to pull up contracts and threaten the client with lawyers the second anything like this would rear its nose. He was very aggressive about it. He did have an attorney on retainer, I'll give him that.
    On top of that he owned all the clients domains, ftp-servers, email-servers, their entire online infrastructure. At the start of each job he would have it all transferred to his infrastructure, telling the clients it would be in their best interest to do it this way for good seo results. So he had the capability to take their whole business offline which was quick to shut them up and comply until the contract was over. Slimey tactic but that's how (((he))) did business.

    As far as the paypal claim goes, provide proof of work done, signed contracts between you and the client, and any relevant emails/messages. PP doesnt care how long you've been a member. They just want to see evidence. You should win it. Good luck.
     
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  5. asap1

    asap1 BANNED BANNED

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    One word.

    Contract.
     
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  6. Magic555

    Magic555 Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    I've been there once but in my case the guy who i was dealing with bought an online service which i was selling for a days and making a decent chunk of money the guy charged back after receiving the service. I got to know later the guy was using stolen paypal and fake details. Its very hard to trust almost anyone these days. After that incident i had to stop accepting paypal and watch my earnings fall because not many people liked using BTC/Skrill ect. The business pretty much went downhill after that.
     
  7. back2form

    back2form Elite Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  8. redarrow

    redarrow Elite Member

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    As long as you got email or convo in wriiten text, paypal will help you.

    Paypal will also see the amounts the man has been paying you and will strengthen your case in "why he trying to get cash back know"

    Paypal are not stupid even thu ppl keep saying there here for the buyers only .

    Make sure you submit all you have concering every transaction he going against.

    If you got records of the website postion when you started and know ,to prove your work was done and has been done concurrently will help.

    Facts and figures paypal love.

    Full beging contract proof .

    I think what happens these business see websites like fivver and think dam that looks good deal , till they use it and find how crap it really is.


    I hope you get it sorted and resolved .

    Good luck
     
  9. creator09

    creator09 Registered Member

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    At least Time is on your side. You may make an argument why after all this time they decided to do that and not earlier if they weren't satisfied ?
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2017
  10. Uprising

    Uprising Registered Member

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    Just screenshot all the conversation that you made and also the progress of the project I'm sure that you will win the case on PayPal. Next time provide a contract that states that all fees are non-refundable.
     
  11. ContentExpert

    ContentExpert Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    Contact me, I know what needs to be done to remedy this situation. I've had this happen to me in the past for $1,000+ jobs where I'd provide the service and receive a charge back once I deliver. In 3 of the 4 cases, I was able to retrieve the funds.
     
  12. whiteblackseo

    whiteblackseo Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    Just say it here? What's the problem?
     
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  13. ContentExpert

    ContentExpert Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    PayPal doesn't offer "Buyer Protection" on intangible services. As soon as a buyer lodges a dispute, escalate it to a claim and input that you delivered the "service".

    Immediately after escalating the dispute to a claim, call PayPal and inform that that the client received the "service" that they purchased.

    Let them know that this was a sale not involving any tangible goods and they will close the dispute in your favor resulting in the funds being returned to the account.
     
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  14. redarrow

    redarrow Elite Member

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    Just point out what the word means tangible....

    Products are tangible and Services are intangible in nature. Intangibility of services is derived from the fact that you cannot see or tough a service. A service is made and delivered on spot and hence it cannot be measured as easily as a tangible product
     
  15. megaMind007

    megaMind007 Regular Member

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    It's totally unfair to dispute the PP after giving him tons of effort to rank his site ... send the conversation record to PP which you have with him.
     
  16. christianbed

    christianbed Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    Appreciate the advice, everyone.

    So I copied all the emails between us (dozens of them), provided links to all the editorial posts/articles I wrote and acquired, and called PayPal before sending them the info.

    I'm a long-time merchant at PP with excellent status for years, which I emphasized. (BTW, did you know that if you have high transaction volumes, you can negotiate a lower fee with PayPal? I did that a couple years ago.)

    Anyway the person I spoke with gave me her direct email, so she could review everything personally. She said if there is enough evidence, she can overturn this jerk's claim in less than 24hrs, and there's no way to appeal. She went on to say that if he escalates to his credit card company, wihch, I'm sure he will, they'll fight it...she said that cc companies are the ones that don't allow chargebacks for services, so they have an excellent record in defending them.

    Fingers crossed.
     
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  17. MisterF

    MisterF Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    Hopefully you'll get this sorted.

    1) Did you have a signed, written contract ? If so, go down the legal route if need be.

    2) Have you got reports of the work done, the tracking etc ?

    3) Why not take payment via banktransfer ?

    4) Final option if you don't get the payment sorted is; Remove all his links etc, then find his nearest competitor and offer them seo and outrank him.
     
  18. powerpu

    powerpu BANNED BANNED

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    If you have the emails i hope they decide in your favour.
     
  19. mickyfu

    mickyfu Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    PM me his website and I will had at as my homepage here. I'm pretty sure it will get many negative attacks.
     
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  20. christianbed

    christianbed Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    1) Did you have a signed, written contract ? If so, go down the legal route if need be.
    No, lesson learned. I've done long-term deals with clients all over the world for years...I typically use a contract if it is a bigger company...for local SEO/web design, not as often.
    2) Have you got reports of the work done, the tracking etc ?
    Yep...this dude went from nowhere...I mean, not even on the map, to ranking well for hundreds of terms in the nutrition niche.
    3) Why not take payment via banktransfer ?
    Convenience, I guess...I used to do it that way when I was in Asia, but PP is a bit easier.
    4) Final option if you don't get the payment sorted is; Remove all his links etc, then find his nearest competitor and offer them seo and outrank him.
    Absolutely. I'm trying to be a nice guy and not stoop to his level. I'm happy that his site is doing so well, but it shouldn't be at my expense. If PP does refund him, I'm going to move those links immediately.

    I miss the good old days when you could use a 301 as an ON/OFF switch to keep clients from doing this kind of stuff.
     
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