SEO BST Rant

Like it, or not. I wouldn't care less. It'd be great to see a discussion here, instead of having this thread deleted on the spot. It's about improving the community after all.

The bitter truth is BHW SEO marketplace fails big time!

Is this WF, or what? Every Tom and their dog wrote 2 articles and decided they can post them on Web 2.0 properties. Every dog and their Tom decided they can buy 2 expired domains and sell PBN links. All Toms, Jacks, and their cats and dogs decided to sell social signals or "guest posts".

Where is customer support, where's the quality, where's the strive for providing a quality service rather than pulling out some quick cash?... You guys lack the basics of marketing and sales! Mods approve sales threads based on what's been advertised and delivered. Fair enough and that's frikn lovely, but what value does a low quality service, that you approve, bring to the community?

Don't get me wrong here. There are some amazing providers with absolutely great services. My point is that they are diminishing and overtaken by these low quality services popping up every single day. And yes, I've spent quite a good amount of money on different providers here and I'm well aware of what the marketplace is like already.

And please, don't even get me even started into all the "read reviews" stuff, not me please. I can already see what's going on. My point is, have 30 quality threads approved and monitor them, instead of having 100 crappy ones. Less money short term, more value (and cash) long term. Need to explain why?

Come on, let's not turn this into WF!

Danny RT said:

Like it, or not. I wouldn't care less. It'd be great to see a discussion here, instead of having this thread deleted on the spot. It's about improving the community after all.

The bitter truth is BHW SEO marketplace fails big time!

Is this WF, or what? Every Tom and their dog wrote 2 articles and decided they can post them on Web 2.0 properties. Every dog and their Tom decided they can buy 2 expired domains and sell PBN links. All Toms, Jacks, and their cats and dogs decided to sell social signals or "guest posts".

Where is customer support, where's the quality, where's the strive for providing a quality service rather than pulling out some quick cash?... You guys lack the basics of marketing and sales! Mods approve sales threads based on what's been advertised and delivered. Fair enough and that's frikn lovely, but what value does a low quality service, that you approve, bring to the community?

Don't get me wrong here. There are some amazing providers with absolutely great services. My point is that they are diminishing and overtaken by these low quality services popping up every single day. And yes, I've spent quite a good amount of money on different providers here and I'm well aware of what the marketplace is like already.

And please, don't even get me even started into all the "read reviews" stuff, not me please. I can already see what's going on. My point is, have 30 quality threads approved and monitor them, instead of having 100 crappy ones. Less money short term, more value (and cash) long term. Need to explain why?

Come on, let's not turn this into WF!

Click to expand...

This is not your main account? You are right though, a lot of low quality service in the BST, you have to do your own due diligence. I have done mine, and i know off hand which service has been working for me for months now.

Between, the last time I started a thread like this, i got infraction!

says the one with 5 posts and who just joined blackhatworld. So , tell me how many services have you tried yet ?

My knowledge is pretty Basic, but I too believe there are way too many SEO services that have surfaced lately, I really doubt they're all worthy.

I have nothing against them though, but the rating system should be improved. Currently, it's almost impossible to actually get an idea by the reviews, sellers keep copy-pasting the positive ones all over again.
Maybe there should be a sepparate section for reviews or something like that, nobody actually uses the star rating system.

Obviously, hes not using his real account

aashish_1792 said:

says the one with 5 posts and who just joined blackhatworld. So , tell me how many services have you tried yet ?

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T2tkid said:

This is not your main account? You are right though, a lot of low quality service in the BST, you have to do your own due diligence. I have done mine, and i know off hand which service has been working for me for months now.

Between, the last time I started a thread like this, i got infraction!

Click to expand...

It is my main account and I wouldn't bother about infractions. I agree, everyone needs to do their own due diligence but still my point was there should be more improved filtering of incoming services. And I'm only referring to the SEO related ones.

aashish_1792 said:

says the one with 5 posts and who just joined blackhatworld. So , tell me how many services have you tried yet ?

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Judging someone by a post count isn't the way to go buddy. I've seen and spent enough, how much have you spent since 2012 so that you don't have a clue what we're talking about?

ok888 said:

Obviously, hes not using his real account

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tvcn15 said:

Good point!! please answer

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5, 3, 2 posts...what difference does it make in the end of the day? I have spent a reasonable amount of money with MY ACCOUNT and I don't have another one. Why would you bother about that and what is the fkn difference? If you have nothing to add, go play smart somewhere else, seriously. All I'm saying is that I'm surprised of all the low quality sales threads being approved on here.

Bought lots of them, tested them, and I'm terribly disappointed with most. Anything else?

There's a thread like this every so often. Everyone vents, nothing actually happens. Why? Because it takes a lot more resources than bhw can/wants to put into it. The review system is horrendously broken. Everyone writes a generic positive review because when there's free review copies, who wants to bite the hand that feeds? The culture of being blindly positive is so bad that I was once approached by a seller to modify my review because doing so would help their business. IMO, the mod review process needs to be expanded, but iono what type of resources that would require.

Danny RT said:

It is my main account and I wouldn't bother about infractions. I agree, everyone needs to do their own due diligence but still my point was there should be more improved filtering of incoming services. And I'm only referring to the SEO related ones.



Judging someone by a post count isn't the way to go buddy. I've seen and spent enough, how much have you spent since 2012 so that you don't have a clue what we're talking about?





5, 3, 2 posts...what difference does it make in the end of the day? I have spent a reasonable amount of money with MY ACCOUNT and I don't have another one. Why would you bother about that and what is the fkn difference? If you have nothing to add, go play smart somewhere else, seriously. All I'm saying is that I'm surprised of all the low quality sales threads being approved on here.

Bought lots of them, tested them, and I'm terribly disappointed with most. Anything else?

Click to expand...

maybe , you will make more sense if you stop lying about your real account.

I agree, this forum would make so much more money if they didn't let the trash sell. More people would get results for their cash, then would spend more money here etc.

I've bought 7-8 services, 3 have been good, 2 average and the rest trash, now I know whos was good though I can just stick with them

Dude is because the account your using right now is registered on MAR 2015?

We are not worrying about your post count, but you said this is your main account n you said you spent tons of money on this account?

How the hell is that possible when the account is registered on MAR 2015?

Danny RT said:

It is my main account and I wouldn't bother about infractions. I agree, everyone needs to do their own due diligence but still my point was there should be more improved filtering of incoming services. And I'm only referring to the SEO related ones.



Judging someone by a post count isn't the way to go buddy. I've seen and spent enough, how much have you spent since 2012 so that you don't have a clue what we're talking about?





5, 3, 2 posts...what difference does it make in the end of the day? I have spent a reasonable amount of money with MY ACCOUNT and I don't have another one. Why would you bother about that and what is the fkn difference? If you have nothing to add, go play smart somewhere else, seriously. All I'm saying is that I'm surprised of all the low quality sales threads being approved on here.

Bought lots of them, tested them, and I'm terribly disappointed with most. Anything else?

Click to expand...

Don't get me wrong because I'm not trying to bash on you and I even agree with some stuff you pointed out on SEO BST and is not only SEO section is the whole BST marketplace in general

Use your real account!

I couldn't agree more!

Foreign workers are coming in and undercutting everyone and then do a brutal job, making the entire forum look bad, pushing out high end service providers.

You can take a look at any niche that has popped up on this forum.
I was the first to sell micro niche sites on here, 5 years ago.
I was also the first to sell authority sites on here, probably 3 years ago now.
I was also the first keyword tool on here.
I was also one of the first to sell expired domains, last summer.

Most recently, the expired domain market has went down, like others did, as people come in driving the price to he ground, in a race to the bottom. The higher end service providers on here cannot compete with those prices with the cost of time and money they invest in their products. Personally, I've spent hundreds of hours working, and then constantly tweaking my expired domain system, I'd say 200 hours. Say my coding is worth $25/hour. How the heck is someone supposed to make $5000 or more when people are charging like $10 a domain, or $5 I think I saw. I'm not the only service provider with this issue, so don't treat it as so.

Top service providers like Leith, BassTrackerBoats, Luka, etc (I'm not speaking for them, just using them as an example) would make more money when their prices are not undercut and they get more sales. This money would spent on ads, etc. These days, there are such a small amount of services providers that make the kind of money to justify buying ads. I don't check the marketplace much anymore, so I'm not even sure if these guys sell here anymore.

If it was $250 to list a thread, and they were thoroughly tested, the quality would be so high of these providers, like it used to be in 2010 when almost no mod wanted to approve a thread.

I think I covered the pros for both the buyers, the sellers and the ownership of the forum. The barrier of entry has to change. If you don't want to 10x the price, maybe require all sellers to have proven their knowledge by writing threads in their forum section of interest to prove they know what they are talking about.

I expect you to quietly walk out of the door and seek your satisfaction elsewhere.

BHW will continue to approve BST so long as they match their criteria,
the rest is left in the hands of the users to leave a bad review but most people don't do it.

These ineffective services are inexpensive and they have somehow forced the good
provider out of service or went to establish somewhere else.

For you, you don't have problem because you are informed.

A major problem in the BST is the sellers creating accounts and posting fake reviews to help them scam noobies.

BHW would lose so much money if they tightened up the rules of BST and in my opinion thats why nothing happens.

forget about it, take a breath, and just focus on what's important to you

macdonjo3 said:

I couldn't agree more!

Foreign workers are coming in and undercutting everyone and then do a brutal job, making the entire forum look bad, pushing out high end service providers.

You can take a look at any niche that has popped up on this forum.
I was the first to sell micro niche sites on here, 5 years ago.
I was also the first to sell authority sites on here, probably 3 years ago now.
I was also the first keyword tool on here.
I was also one of the first to sell expired domains, last summer.

Most recently, the expired domain market has went down, like others did, as people come in driving the price to he ground, in a race to the bottom. The higher end service providers on here cannot compete with those prices with the cost of time and money they invest in their products. Personally, I've spent hundreds of hours working, and then constantly tweaking my expired domain system, I'd say 200 hours. Say my coding is worth $25/hour. How the heck is someone supposed to make $5000 or more when people are charging like $10 a domain, or $5 I think I saw. I'm not the only service provider with this issue, so don't treat it as so.

Top service providers like Leith, BassTrackerBoats, Luka, etc (I'm not speaking for them, just using them as an example) would make more money when their prices are not undercut and they get more sales. This money would spent on ads, etc. These days, there are such a small amount of services providers that make the kind of money to justify buying ads. I don't check the marketplace much anymore, so I'm not even sure if these guys sell here anymore.

If it was $250 to list a thread, and they were thoroughly tested, the quality would be so high of these providers, like it used to be in 2010 when almost no mod wanted to approve a thread.

I think I covered the pros for both the buyers, the sellers and the ownership of the forum. The barrier of entry has to change. If you don't want to 10x the price, maybe require all sellers to have proven their knowledge by writing threads in their forum section of interest to prove they know what they are talking about.

Click to expand...

I like this idea right here!

Shaunm said:

A major problem in the BST is the sellers creating accounts and posting fake reviews to help them scam noobies.

BHW would lose so much money if they tightened up the rules of BST and in my opinion thats why nothing happens.

Click to expand...

Some sellers will also offer freebies and entice you into posting a positive review on their sales thread by offering you "a little something extra", despite this being against the Freebies section's TOS. It reminds me of the tactics that are used on Fiverr to procure positive reviews quickly.

In some ways the foreign workers driving the price down is good. The way to make money is by working on your business, not in it. So, if they can do routine tasks cheaply, that's great. However, my experience has taught me to never use the BST's for a money site.

Fiverr is the same way, even worse, because I see a lot of people there pretending to be from the US/UK, but whose gig descriptions and output are clearly the work of someone whose first language is not English.

You can't blame someone for giving it a go...heck, imagine how far $79 goes in a 2nd-3rd world country...if people here are willing to pay that for what is essentially a linkwheel with horribly spun content, that's their choice.

You really have to expect the worst in most cases here, but that is not saying the services aren't valuable. They save loads of time, they are typically pretty good for building some diversity to your site and beefing up your tiers, so it isn't all bad.

You can always just hire some VA's.

aashish_1792 said:

maybe , you will make more sense if you stop lying about your real account.

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Dude, seriously...stop embarrassing yourself. Read my next answer below if you're so keen of getting a reasonable answer.

ok888 said:

Dude is because the account your using right now is registered on MAR 2015?

We are not worrying about your post count, but you said this is your main account n you said you spent tons of money on this account?

How the hell is that possible when the account is registered on MAR 2015?

Click to expand...

How about I've been heavily purchasing services for more than 1 year now, before I even registered an account here? Making more sense now?

And what difference does it make in the end of the day? I say tons of services suck and we're not talking about age of my account.

john1444 said:

I expect you to quietly walk out of the door and seek your satisfaction elsewhere.

BHW will continue to approve BST so long as they match their criteria,
the rest is left in the hands of the users to leave a bad review but most people don't do it.

These ineffective services are inexpensive and they have somehow forced the good
provider out of service or went to establish somewhere else.

For you, you don't have problem because you are informed.

Click to expand...

Not looking for any satisfaction at all. You're right, I know what I'm after and I know how to evaluate a service. What you say makes sense and I, too, understand what this is all about. My point was that, is this place turning into WF for the sake of a quicker cash flow for the time being?

albaniax said:

forget about it, take a breath, and just focus on what's important to you

Click to expand...

Yeah man, I should stop acting like a little biAchhh

Once again, I'm NOT talking about reviews, pricing etc whatsoever. I'm talking about the lowered quality of the SEO marketplace. It's not about pricing or reviews, it's about results, quality, good service and tightening up the moderation system.

Just my 2 cents...after all, I ain't nobody to critique BHW and it's not my purpose to do so. But all that puts me off as a buyer, and probably lots of other folks with common sense as well.

The age of your account doesn't matter, but honesty do

The only reason why peoples have doubts on you is because the things you said doesn't add up. Now you mention you start buying service before
creating account, which makes more sense now.

I'm going to stop posting on this thread to cause anymore problems

Danny RT said:

Dude, seriously...stop embarrassing yourself. Read my next answer below if you're so keen of getting a reasonable answer.



How about I've been heavily purchasing services for more than 1 year now, before I even registered an account here? Making more sense now?

And what difference does it make in the end of the day? I say tons of services suck and we're not talking about age of my account.



Not looking for any satisfaction at all. You're right, I know what I'm after and I know how to evaluate a service. What you say makes sense and I, too, understand what this is all about. My point was that, is this place turning into WF for the sake of a quicker cash flow for the time being?



Yeah man, I should stop acting like a little biAchhh

Once again, I'm NOT talking about reviews, pricing etc whatsoever. I'm talking about the lowered quality of the SEO marketplace. It's not about pricing or reviews, it's about results, quality, good service and tightening up the moderation system.

Just my 2 cents...after all, I ain't nobody to critique BHW and it's not my purpose to do so. But all that puts me off as a buyer, and probably lots of other folks with common sense as well.

Click to expand...

Yes, we can make the BST Services re-check and up thier service. Simple, Open a Poll per category per services. So that's it! We know how have are own mini-google, BHWers will check on poll ranking position to know which services are great. It can be manipulated (Everything is) but at least a "start" first step in cleaning up BST section and thier acts.