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Scammed! - Really?

Discussion in 'The Shit List' started by unclemike, Jul 7, 2013.

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  1. unclemike

    unclemike BANNED BANNED

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    ---- THREAD CLOSED 07/07/2013 ----
    Are you about ready to label someone a scammer or think someone your doing business with is a scammer? You might
    want to read this first.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Noun Form
    A confidence game or other fraudulent scheme, especially for making a quick profit; swindle.

    Verb Form (used with object)
    To cheat or defraud with a scam.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    That is the exact definition of the word scam. Now before you go to start labeling people as scammers and ruining
    there reputation across cyber space maybe you can take 5 seconds and make a checklist.

    A. Did the person drop communication for a long period of time with no obvious attempt to answer?
    B. Did the seller not make any attempt to finish your order even partially?
    C. How did you pay the person? (PayPal is safer however Western Union is a instant red flag)


    If you answered yes to more than one of these questions you might have a scammer on your hands.
    If you cannot purely answer yes to these questions then think about alternative labeling's.

    Example:

    Poor Communication (A massive start to problems)
    Delayed Finish date


    Point is you know the problem between you and the seller and I am sure you are creative enough to pick a title to call them
    out on instead of instantly going with the hard lined scammer label as a default.

    Why should we do this? Simply put people make a living online and eat by it. They spend years building a reputation and
    try to honor it and keep it healthy and it can really take a blow to labeling someone a scammer in an indexed page of a
    forum or website. Google indexes these pages and when someone searches them they will see "Scam" even if its not the
    case. So you are effectively hurting their online reputation over labeling's.

    So. Your labels need to be accurate! This is not a game we are playing. This is serious and should be treated that way.

    Now let's look at the traits of people who might have made a mistake but are not scammers:

    1. People who delay but refund you in the end covering all cost.
    2. Partial refunds over a period of time.
    3. Honesty about the situation but nothing they can do for a period of time. (It is critical they keep contact)


    Now. Does this describe the person you bought from?

    If they were scammers you would not have your money or even communication.

    I have been scammed when I was fresh online. Guess what?
    I never received promises, partial refunds, communication or even a sentiment of care. Those guys grabbed the cash
    and went on to the next victim. They did not stick around to bite any bullets. Period.

    People may make mistakes in life. But that does not mean they deserve to have there reputation and integrity tarnished
    over people not thinking for 5 seconds about who this person really is they bought from. If they are showing integrity and dealing
    with refunding you and making it right. Consider yourself lucky because you will not find many people like this. That's a fact.

    I am not saying do not call a scammer a scammer. But I am saying think twice before you type "Scam" and click submit.
    You can get your money back and call them out without that label you know. By following the procedures above you can insure to show
    integrity when calling someone into question. Class goes a long way ;)

    Happy selling and buying!
    Unclemike
     
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    Last edited: Jul 7, 2013
  2. SPQR

    SPQR Elite Member

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    Thank you for this post. I am sure it should be a static post, as more people need to read this before posting elsewhere. I am glad you are here to help us, UncleMike.
     
  3. AllICareAboutIsMoney

    AllICareAboutIsMoney Newbie

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    Very true my dego brother... People are always quick to throw words around, but it all comes down to a simple, fundamental act **COMMUNICATION**. Why don't my employees just call me and tell me they won't be coming in... Instead, I have to have one of my managers call them, we end up short handed, and they lie about their Grandma dying.... OK, I get it, you have a hangover from last night, just tell me, and I won't fire you... this time. Get's me every time Unk... But in relation to your main point, they're not a scammer, they just lack communication skills, which again, is THE SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT ASSET!
     
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  4. steelballs

    steelballs BANNED BANNED

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    Great post OP Thanks...:cool:

    The Customer Is Always Right?

    I think personally many of these issues can be and/or are very complex.

    It is very tough on any seller when the buyer hits the panic button and often seems imho to post all on public display (often what he is thinking at that very minute) and then the sh1t hits the fan!


    Quote
    The Art of War
    ?Treat your men as you would your own beloved sons. And they will follow you into the deepest valley.? Sun Tzu
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_Tzu

    Without top draw communication you may and/or will have problems?

    Finally bear in mind ? in business they say the customer is always right!

    But that does not mean they can jump out of pram ?Spit the Dummy? and instantly open a public document disparaging the seller as a scammer - cheat et al?

    There has to be 2 way communication ? because without measured fair and balanced communication there is NO Business?

    Just my 2 cents?
     
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  5. subster

    subster Elite Member

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    This thread was needed!
     
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  6. SkyrocketSEO

    SkyrocketSEO Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    Or you can use Escrow service
     
  7. vmbpromo

    vmbpromo Newbie

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    People should definitely read this and think first before getting things completely out of hand. People make mistakes and we can't avoid getting frustrated or impatient but directly labeling something you know they are not is just totally unfair. If the person is trying to meet his end on the deal even with the mistakes, people should at least credit that.
     
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  8. WizGizmo

    WizGizmo Super Moderator Staff Member Premium Member

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    Thread moved to the Shit List section and is now a "Sticky"

    Thanks Unclemike! :)

    "Wiz"
     
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  9. elschlongo

    elschlongo Junior Member

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    I couldn't agree more with this...thanks
     
  10. Asif WILSON Khan

    Asif WILSON Khan Executive VIP Premium Member

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    Good Thread Unclemike.

    It is clear that some people have been lucky to have never been scammed but unfortunately just start throwing that word around when all they have received is bad service.
    All companies and businesses screw up from time to time.

    Anyway, another good post Uncklemike, ran out of thanks and rep. So Thanks
     
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  11. backontrack

    backontrack Power Member

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    This is a great and very helpful thread :), Some people seriously need to learn this lol, Thanks :)
     
  12. Logician

    Logician BANNED BANNED

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    Very good thread. Its good for people to understand the definition before labeling a person and assassinating there reputation.
     
  13. YouFeelMeDawg?

    YouFeelMeDawg? BANNED BANNED

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    No offense, but this is the wrong kind of information to be putting out there for members to know who is a scammer and who isn't.



    Those would be the dumb scammers, the ones that don't really know how to scam right. The real scammers or serial scammers, promise you a million things, keep communicating with you to keep you quiet while they go and take care of other members.

    Your post seems to indicate that you get scammed by the real dumb scammers, so your most likely to fall for the REAL scammers really quick.

    Don't you remember eric greed with his baby picture profile, or needalead. Do you think those scammers seriously did what you describe on your post? lol no
    And thanks to those members, the JV section was changed drastically in what can be done there and what can't be done there. Before those serial those scammers ,as I would call them, rules were more lenient in the JV section.

    So your post really wouldn't even help people not getting scammed if they were dealing with some serious predators. But then again, I see the point in your post. Because bhw's IQ has dropped recently over the past years and we have seen members getting scammed by not following the warnings(don't deal outside of bst threads) I guess this would help atleast to not get scammed by the dumb scammers.

    However, you should put a disclaimer that this is not fool proof and this is how massive scams occur. Thinking that because the person is keeping communications with them and promising partial promises and going above and beyond(in terms of communication), is a perfect way of scamming tons of members.
     
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  14. Asif WILSON Khan

    Asif WILSON Khan Executive VIP Premium Member

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    I agree with you to an extent.

    I don't think this thread was meant to be a lesson on how to identify a scammer more of a suggestion to stop calling people a scammer when all they have been guilty of is poor service and communication.

    A professional scam artist and conman knows when to play the long game and will be very hard to identify.
    A small time scammer is too greedy to play it long and is therefore a little easier to see.

    As one of the mods pointed out the other day, the purpose of the shit list is try to help people recover their money or come to some amicable agreement. The shit list won't stop scammers but if you value your BHW account and reputation then you would try to rectify any situation than face a ban.

    There is no foolproof method to identify a scammer. Some people might be scamming from a very early age others may fall into it through desperation because of a change in their circumstances.

    We all have morales and set ourselves lines that we willing or not willing to cross. Unfortunately sometimes those lines become flexible.
     
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  15. young player

    young player Regular Member

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    It's great that this was made a Sticky because defaming someones name on a forum can ruin their business and their image.
     
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  16. SmartWritingSolution

    SmartWritingSolution Newbie

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    Thanks for making this post. This should help clear the confusion between a scammer and someone who just hasn't been able to complete a project/order YET.

    It's tough for serious service providers to be labeled as scammers.

    I also agree with other posts above, it's important to "communicate" with your customers if there's a delay. :D
     
  17. unclemike

    unclemike BANNED BANNED

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    Everyone I really appreciate the time each and everyone one of you took to read this and then participate.
    I am glad to see a lot of you think it is constructive and thank you WizGizmo for deciding to make it a sticky. For those of you who
    say it is not foolproof to not being scammed. Your right! Nothing is full proof for avoiding scammers.

    For anyone considering buying services or tangible items I would suggest checking the stickies located inside those sections.
    Many of those sections have threads dedicated towards giving you tips to not getting scammed. This threads intent is to show how
    we can constructively dispute a transaction while showing integrity.

    Always do due diligence and learn from others mistakes right here in the shitlist. No one can prevent someone from scamming
    you but you!

    Cheers!
    Unclemike
     
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