Scammed by Debian

Profile: https://www.blackhatworld.com/members/debian.33989/
His topic: https://www.blackhatworld.com/seo/forget-proxies-go-full-residential-remote-desktop.900835/
I will insert below my review, so as not to rewrite:

"
Hey guys. I want to leave my review about this guy and his product.
When I sent him my first message, he was really active and talked a lot about his product. We decided to postpone server set up up to the weekend, so I had time to investigate everything. Price was $749 including fee. I’ve sent 1st of July, he told me that he need 24 hours for server set up. I’ve wrote every day, but received only short answers that he need more time. I received my server July 5th with incorrect password.
At the beginning I asked server for google adwords, with ip’s of particular countries – Russia and Ukraine. He created 6 RDS. But when I check whatismyipaddress.com it located me in UK, same did google. When I showed him that, he said that google is wrong. All 6 accounts ended up banned right away for suspicious payment. When I ask for 2 more RDP – it took him 3 more days. I was wasting my time. I asked him to taught me how to create RDP but all I got was some file on desktop with lack of information and I couldn’t continue my work.

(Mod Edit: Image Fixed)


On this screen you can see those 1000 ipv6 that I got. If any of you ever worked with ipv6 you’ll understand that price of that ip less than one penny. But the problem is – if one of those ip’s got banned, google will ban all others, so I cant use them.

Also I asked to taught me to create RDP, he said he’ll make short video and leave on desktop. Today is July 13th – no video, no RDP’s and my profit is 0
Now he just ignore me, I thought that he was somewhere on busyness or anything else, but my friend wrote him on sk ype today and got instant response. I was shocked.
Today I receive a message “I’ve made for you more than for any client. Don’t compline” I hate to compline but this guy respects no one and looking only to get easy money. After he get the money, he is forgetting about you and left you with broken product. With that solution you wont be able to create 1000 accounts as he claimed. I mean you can create 1000 but all of them will got instantly banned.
Please pass that info to forum owner. I want full chargeback.
I also will leave here my s k y p e: drononline. If anyone else face similar problems with this guy – c o n t a c t me, I have an idea. I have all conversation and can provide to admins or anyone else

Thread approved, @Debian has been notified and has the usual 48 hours to respond.

Upon investigation of this clients server, which is still running and has active rdp's on it, the ip address location claims are pretty much false as even he knows. The following screen shots were taken date and time stamped, and can disprove the claims made above. These were websites pulled up by him, not me and were readily available the moment you logged into the main server:

New York IP Range:







The claims about the ip locations are quite a bit off as you can see. (This third screenshot I had to produce myself when checking his allocations as he wasn't actively looking at this range.) The only other claim made here was that I didn't teach him how to create more virtual machines. I created the first 6 machines out of my own time, and within 24 hours he had deleted at least 4 of those machines and demanded that I create more. That would be fine if I had agreed to be his 24 hour a day server manager, but that was not in any product agreement. The least that said client could have done is gone to google and asked "how do I create virtual machines in hyper-v?" It would have told him instantly how to do it. Sometimes helping yourself by doing a little research goes a long way.

As to the statement that ip's only cost a few pennies is also completely inaccurate. You can't focus on just the ip cost alone as without hardware, bandwidth, programming, and active maintenance there are no ip's to begin with. So that claim is without merit. The only claim with merit here is the video on creating virtual machines. I simply did not have the time to make a video for him at that moment. This client went into this project without even the slightest clue how to administrate a server, how to setup anything and expected his hand to held in every last area of the project. A little research of his own would have enabled him to keep going. As to the "suspicious payments" claims he's made, this is on him and doesn't relate to anything but his payment methods. That does not correlate to anything else.

I went above and beyond in this situation by not only ordering this server from the server provider, but also doing 6 hours in its initial setup which is not part of any of my service offerings. In the initial setup, I did the base operating system installation, 4 rounds of updating the server, the creation of 6 virtual machines using my own iso's, creating the links between that server and the ipv6 global network, and initially teaching this client how to use the virtual machines.

It would be better if you answered so quickly in s k ype and on your site, as here
Well, if this is the case, I will provide correspondence to the moderator so that he fully sees the situation.
@jazzc, Where can I send you the logs of our correspondence?

Also add that it's not in my payment methods. The lock because of the method of payment was 2 times. The remaining accounts were blocked due to: "Systematic violations" after creating a new clean account. You are trying to bypass IP authentication systems, but you will not be able to crank it up with real systems, like google or yandex, because their systems say I came from a different country, not the one you gave me. First of all the problem of technical support of the client should be solved, since I made a full prepayment for the described service - and to answer every 3 days - for you it is normal, but for me it is a waste of time and money. And I am your client, if something does not work for me, you should try to at least sort out the problem and not ignore me. I am not satisfied with the service, it does not fulfill the requirements stated at the very beginning. If I need to, I'll create another 10 same accounts - and I will prove that they will all be locked. Just do not try to give other IPv6, we will create it on these.
You know that I'm right. The quality of your services is poor. Like technical support itself. And this is said about a few more customers in your topic. You have not even turned to me to settle this situation.

@Debian

First, I'd like to focus on the ip geolocation issue. Are you saying that your Moscow server is physically located in Moscow (or at least, near by)? Similarly, you NYC server near NYC etc?

This technology is done using vlan's. It doesn't matter where the client purchases the physical server from. In this case the clients server was located on a commercial provider, which we didn't use the dc's ip's because we used the vlan's network instead.

Debian said:

This technology is done using vlan's. It doesn't matter where the client purchases the physical server from. In this case the clients server was located on a commercial provider, which we didn't use the dc's ip's because we used the vlan's network instead.

Click to expand...

Well, the public ips assigned to the vlan have to belong physically somewhere, as connectivity doesn't come out of thin air. Are those Moscow and New York ips physically located on the respective countries (regardless if you tunnel the traffic to another place)?

No, as that part uses geolocation technology from the central registrars database.

Debian said:

No, as that part uses geolocation technology from the central registrars database.

Click to expand...

In other words, you've got a LIR and you just put fake data on the RIPE database for your block?

If you already know the answer, why are you asking the question?
As to fake, this is an inappropriate way to formulate this, as LIR's are empowered specifically to do this. It is within our rights as LIR members to formulate our blocks any way we so please.

Debian said:

If you already know the answer, why are you asking the question?

Click to expand...

I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt.

As to fake, this is an inappropriate way to formulate this, as LIR's are empowered specifically to do this. It is within our rights as LIR members to formulate our blocks any way we so please.

Click to expand...

Maybe so, RIPE certainly does not try to enforce correctness of geo info. That said, it's irrelevant in our consideration because the problem at hand isn't if you're being in violation of RIPE's TOS or not.

The problem is that you're selling these ips to people who want to use them to create accounts etc on sites that have sophisticated anti-spam tools that go beyond the "oh, let's check what RIPE db says, we know its totally unreliable but wth". If it took me 2 minutes to verify that the RIPE data was fake - using 3 different ways to be absolutely sure - do you think that perhaps Google, FB etc have automated this since like before the dinosaurs went extinct?

And then, you're providing "1000" ipv6 in the same /64. Last time I read the relevant RFCs (and I do actually read them), a unique IPv6 address is a /64. In other words, all those "1000" ips are seen (legitimately so) as a single unique from Google, FB etc.

In conclusion, you are selling a single unique IP per "1000" which to add insult to injury, is trivially detectable that its geo data are fake.

How do you plan to make our forum members whole?

jazzc said:

Maybe so, RIPE certainly does not try to enforce correctness of geo info.

Click to expand...

They don't have to enforce it because its irrelevant. A LIR can do these things with the full support of the NCC's staff and their explicit support. I've had my ranges checked many times over by their staff in the 8 years I've been a LIR member. Not once have they complained about it. And if you think I'm the only one who uses these methods, you'd be wrong in that assumption as well. Overplay, Privax (Hide my Ass), and numerous other high ranked vpn providers also do the same exact thing. A little research would show you this.

jazzc said:

The problem is that you're selling these ips to people who want to use them to create accounts etc on sites that have sophisticated anti-spam tools that go beyond the "oh, let's check what RIPE db says, we know its totally unreliable but wth". If it took me 2 minutes to verify that the RIPE data was fake - using 3 different ways to be absolutely sure - do you think that perhaps Google, FB etc have automated this since like before the dinosaurs went extinct?

Click to expand...

Google only looks at who is announcing the range. Facebook does even less and relies on a particular 3rd party database provider who relies on the RIPE database itself. I've done extensive research into both companies and where and how they draw their ip information. You asked how to make members here whole on the subject? Given that 90% of the members here are successful in their endeavors and only few have complained, I don't feel that additional actions are warranted. In the few cases out of the hundreds that use this particular service, I'm happy to change their locations as needed. But stopping the entire practice as a whole when its overall success rate is indeed very high is not something I'm willing to consider.

jazzc said:

In conclusion, you are selling a single unique IP per "1000" which to add insult to injury, is trivially detectable that its geo data are fake.

Click to expand...

If the detection rate was indeed so high on social media sites as you are citing, I would have hundreds to thousands of complaints here on BHW as opposed to the few who are not successful. If reality collided with the fact of your stated conclusion that one /64 = 1 ipv4, hundreds of companies would be long out of business and ipv6 would be rendered useless. But the reality of the matter is, ipv6 can use every last ip in every range just fine. What needs to be ensured is that those ip ranges are not systematically abused, which is why I only allocate so many from each range before deploying additional ranges. Furthermore, /64's are tiny in size and I don't operate under a single /64 allocation. My allocation sizes are much higher in scope than what you get in data center's or a standard allocation to a residential end-user.

Debian said:

They don't have to enforce it because its irrelevant. A LIR can do these things with the full support of the NCC's staff and their explicit support. I've had my ranges checked many times over by their staff in the 8 years I've been a LIR member. Not once have they complained about it. And if you think I'm the only one who uses these methods, you'd be wrong in that assumption as well. Overplay, Privax (Hide my Ass), and numerous other high ranked vpn providers also do the same exact thing. A little research would show you this.



Google only looks at who is announcing the range. Facebook does even less and relies on a particular 3rd party database provider who relies on the RIPE database itself. I've done extensive research into both companies and where and how they draw their ip information. You asked how to make members here whole on the subject? Given that 90% of the members here are successful in their endeavors and only few have complained, I don't feel that additional actions are warranted. In the few cases out of the hundreds that use this particular service, I'm happy to change their locations as needed. But stopping the entire practice as a whole when its overall success rate is indeed very high is not something I'm willing to consider.



If the detection rate was indeed so high on social media sites as you are citing, I would have hundreds to thousands of complaints here on BHW as opposed to the few who are not successful. If reality collided with the fact of your stated conclusion that one /64 = 1 ipv4, hundreds of companies would be long out of business and ipv6 would be rendered useless. But the reality of the matter is, ipv6 can use every last ip in every range just fine. What needs to be ensured is that those ip ranges are not systematically abused, which is why I only allocate so many from each range before deploying additional ranges. Furthermore, /64's are tiny in size and I don't operate under a single /64 allocation. My allocation sizes are much higher in scope than what you get in data center's or a standard allocation to a residential end-user.

Click to expand...

What companies and businesses are you talking about? Who massively uses ipv6 except spammers and bots? Officially, ipv6 is not yet recognized in the whole world and few sites support them. If you talk about business, only about such as you. But there are people and services that do this honestly and give each user unique subnets. And there are you who count on people like me who understand little about this. But a year ago I worked with instagram, was engaged in spam. And all who were in this sphere already then worked exclusively with a unique / 48 subnet. Closer by autumn, everyone switched to / 24 subnets, since the algorithms of instagram saw a bunch of users on 1 subnet and they were simply thrown off to verify by phone number at best, and at worst - blocked forever.
But if we do not delve into the topic - then in fact the package was called "1000 ip for facebook and adwords". This implies that if used correctly, I can create 1000 accounts and all of them will be working. I'm ready to argue that this is not possible to do, even if everything is unique everywhere (payment data, websites, etc.). Consequently, I continue to insist on the return of money, which I spent vnikuda. I am an adequate person and I work not the first day with facebook and google. And if everything was really good, I would not raise this issue and write a complaint against you. My time is dearer to me. And so I lost a whole month in expectation from you at least some kind of support and an answer to my questions. It's time for you to recognize your non-rights.

Also, I have not seen the thousands of satisfied users you are talking about yet. Analyzing your topic, the last time only one negative. Perhaps earlier everything was fine with you, but lately the quality of your services has clearly worsened - people, not just me, say this. It is also possible to have satisfied people with other packages that you provide. But definitely not this.

Andrewkingsman said:

Who massively uses ipv6 except spammers and bots? Officially, ipv6 is not yet recognized in the whole world and few sites support them.

Click to expand...

This tells me you know very little about ipv6. First, I don't allow spammers on my networks at all. Secondly, there are extremely few ipv6 capable bots out there at all. Third, Google Youtube Facebook Yahoo Telegram Linkedin Instagram and Flickr, which are a majority of your major social media networks all support ipv6. Your major companies of the world almost all support ipv6. So again your claim of only a few sites supporting it is completely irrelevant.

I'm not going to debate if gravity exists, so we're going directly to the important part.

You asked how to make members here whole on the subject? Given that 90% of the members here are successful in their endeavors and only few have complained, I don't feel that additional actions are warranted. In the few cases out of the hundreds that use this particular service, I'm happy to change their locations as needed. But stopping the entire practice as a whole when its overall success rate is indeed very high is not something I'm willing to consider.

Click to expand...

You have been grossly misleading people in regards to what you're selling. As staff here, one of our top priorities is to ensure that our members are not getting scammed.

Here's my proposed resolution:

a) Full refund to anyone who asks, in light of this SL.

b) We'll change your sales thread to clearly describe what exactly it is you're selling.

If people - as you suggest - are brimming with happiness over your offering, that's awesome, you've got no reason to say no.

Let me know.

Debian said:

This tells me you know very little about ipv6. First, I don't allow spammers on my networks at all. Secondly, there are extremely few ipv6 capable bots out there at all. Third, Google Youtube Facebook Yahoo Telegram Linkedin Instagram and Flickr, which are a majority of your major social media networks all support ipv6. Your major companies of the world almost all support ipv6. So again your claim of only a few sites supporting it is completely irrelevant.

Click to expand...

This tells me that you are not attentively reading my post. I did not ask whether you allow or not spam on your ip. I'm talking about the fact that they are most often used for this purpose, since this is the cheapest way to a large number of threads. Well, what is the point? You have listed to me an insignificant number of campaigns that support IPv6. 8 domains against the whole world. The statement was that a small number of sites support IPv6. Here I also want to mention the fact that the beginning of IPv6 support in these social networks was for testing and preparation by the time when the whole world switches to IPv6. This is a fundamental goal. We are talking about too remote things. I focus on the fact that ipv6 is so suspicious, but you also allocate the ip range in the same subnet. All this subnet will be blocked, why are you arguing?

jazzc said:

I'm not going to debate if gravity exists, so we're going directly to the important part.



You have been grossly misleading people in regards to what you're selling. As staff here, one of our top priorities is to ensure that our members are not getting scammed.

Here's my proposed resolution:

a) Full refund to anyone who asks, in light of this SL.

b) We'll change your sales thread to clearly describe what exactly it is you're selling.

If people - as you suggest - are brimming with happiness over your offering, that's awesome, you've got no reason to say no.

Let me know.

Click to expand...

In this particular case, I am willing to send back the service fee only. 50% of the fee in this case was dedicated to the procurement of a physical server and the setup and preparation time. This I will not refund. I will refund $300 in this case and consider the matter closed. On point B, I disagree as I believe I'm competent enough to write my own product descriptions, considering this product was mod-approved prior to being listed. In light of that, I'll withdraw that BST entirely and request that the entire thread be deleted.

Debian said:

In this particular case, I am willing to send back the service fee only. 50% of the fee in this case was dedicated to the procurement of a physical server and the setup and preparation time. This I will not refund. I will refund $300 in this case and consider the matter closed. On point B, I disagree as I believe I'm competent enough to write my own product descriptions, considering this product was mod-approved prior to being listed. In light of that, I'll withdraw that BST entirely and request that the entire thread be deleted.

Click to expand...

What do you mean the question is closed? You have to return everything except the cost of the server. Your costs do not interest me, what you spent on setting up and the like, since you do not take into account my time expenses, which I lost with you this month.

@Debian What you suggest is the equivalent of us giving you a pat on the back - clearly not the right thing by any means.

Full refunds are non-negotiable (except for people who prefer to sort the amount out with you individually, which is fine). In regards to your thread, I'm ok with closing it if that's your preference.

Let me know.

@jazzc Tell me please, in what order is the refund?