Scammed by @Cloutsy

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In my experience shitlists dont pop up, get automatically approved and the accused is given no oportunity to fix it.

The opp is always given an opportunity to fix it, if they choose not to do the right thing that is on them.

In respect of a payment gateway issue, ops payment gateway, ops problem, not the customer.

What is more concerning is a guy who says he does $70k per month and looking to sell his business giving a shit over $20 and apparently finding himself in this situation multiple times. That is a guy who does not know how to run a business properly.
 
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Here you go @Cloutsy

Fact list:

1) You had more than 10 SL against you all-time but staff was more than gentle and you know it, still refused to admit
2) You even used it as counter argument the (1) fact, by suggesting DM route instead of open SL, which mostly was the case
this made most of SL non visible to the public, because the man who hammered you took care of your SHIT behind the scene
3) You are way to arrogant and ego driven, you even created a thread with title 'I just donated $500 to BHW'
attention please, I've just bought myself marketplace badge and I'm screaming about it, pathetic
4) Even your panel business sales thread was created just to serve attention. Who is crazy to give you $500k or $300 w/e right lol
you gave some bad numbers there, upon quick calculation results were nowhere close to returning investments only after year++
you could earn more by flipping $100k in crypto stable without risk involved, so pure attention, for further ego feed up only
5) Nothing lasts forever, and I'm more than glad (along many other BHW members) that we have staff we do on BHW

Edit: Your customer support was terrible, brutally. You had to felt it, what a lesson you say? A very hard one.
 
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Those of you that think this is unfair.

You see the tip of the iceberg and should not be captaining the Titanic.

There is so much that goes on behind the scenes it is almost Wikipedia like when it comes to this subforum and it takes an incredible amount of time and energy to keep things as clean as possible.

Community reaction to a ban is something we all take into consideration as staff but most do not see the back end process that goes on as to a SL thread.

I expect the blowback from a few of you, as that is SOP, and trying to get some of you to understand the process and all the noise in the background that you cannot hear, and I'm fine with it but my job is to get up in the morning, put on my work boots, grab a broom and a mop and clean.
 
INCC said:
Lol at this.

So if my customer uses Paypal or Visa to pay and the gateway malfunctions due to a technical error from the Paypal side then it's my problem?
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Yes, if the payment was debited from the customer and then got lost, legally you are now responsible. You have to make good to the customer and then you have to take it up with your payment processor. Same as if your payment processor refuses to pay you, same as if the product got lost in the post. Legally all on you. Welcome to running a legit business!
 
KHer0 said:
Well, for first time in my life, I am not comfortable with how this SL sorted out.

Unless I am missing something here, Its clear he didn't receive the money, and its a gateway problem. How is he responsible for that?

I had times with my ecommerce when Visa itself gone down! It would credit the user, then show him an error message while nothing appeaes on my side. Yeah, I got many angry customers, but its not my fault!

Terminating businesses shouldn't be this easy. Specially if the client is not complaining about the service quality but some technical issue.
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also if he has over 10 SL why was he not banned before lols i think he pissed the wrong person
 
BassTrackerBoats said:
Those of you that think this is unfair.

You see the tip of the iceberg and should not be captaining the Titanic.

There is so much that goes on behind the scenes it is almost Wikipedia like when it comes to this subforum and it takes an incredible amount of time and energy to keep things as clean as possible.

Community reaction to a ban is something we all take into consideration as staff but most do not see the back end process that goes on as to a SL thread.

I expect the blowback from a few of you, as that is SOP, and trying to get some of you to understand the process and all the noise in the background that you cannot hear, and I'm fine with it but my job is to get up in the morning, put on my work boots, grab a broom and a mop and clean.
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Works fine for me atleast. I am neither for nor against this decision, because I dunno what actually had happened. All said, if I was @Cloutsy I would just refund everyone who wanted one, no matter if they were right or wrong, because I will never take money from an unhappy customer. But that’s just me…
 
whitecupg said:
also if he has over 10 SL why was he not banned before lols i think he pissed the wrong person
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no man, you think that 1 man handles ban? whole bhw staff is aware and agreed upon this

he was given second chance many times, but you don't know the guy nor the case... so it's hard when you know nothing..
 
MGaLL said:
no man, you think that 1 man handles ban? whole bhw staff is aware and agreed upon this

he was given second chance many times, but you don't know the guy nor the case... so it's hard when you know nothing..
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scam is a scam, I don't think anyone gives "second" chance to proven scammers
 
GringoMonkey said:
Yes, if the payment was debited from the customer and then got lost, legally you are now responsible. You have to make good to the customer and then you have to take it up with your payment processor. Same as if your payment processor refuses to pay you, same as if the product got lost in the post. Legally all on you. Welcome to running a legit business!
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I'd be not legally responsible for anything in such an event :D

If the money does not reach my account because of the technical error I cannot be responsible. How did you even come up with this :D

So if some scammer sends me an email and claims that they made a $1000 transaction to my site but I do not see the money or transaction and now I'm suddenly legally responsible for chasing that amount for the customer? LOL.

In the OPs case:

They claimed to have made a transaction to the gateway but they did not provide the transaction ID for analysis (at least not here, maybe in private they did).

The few outcomes just top of my head:

  • Gateway malfunction
  • OP added the wrong wallet
  • Clipper Malware
  • OP was very late with the payment, the gateway expired (in this case they need to sort it out with Coinbase)

The seller should have taken their transaction ID and presented this to Coinbase support to make sure that the funds were indeed transferred to the Coinbase wallet. If the money is lost for a mistaken wallet address it's up to the buyer and not the seller. Without knowing to whose wallet the funds went you can't be even sure the gateway received anything.

If it turns out its not Coinbase wallet, then what?
 
I'm sure that if the accused had reacted in a polite and civil manner, just informing that the payment has expired and will make a refund when he receive the OP's BTC wallet, none of this would be happening.

But he chose to react in a truculent manner and attacking the OP/mods.

It's a lesson, before you hit the ''post reply'' button, review and rethink what you are going to post, it is better to only deal in a civilized and protocol manner.
 
thescrrr said:
but it was the payment processor's fault, yet you banned him, so you treated him differently because he wasn't guilty in this shit list :D

You say he had multiple shit lists, but those aren't live, if those shit lists are valid why aren't they became live?

With that many customers he had, you are bound to have some butthurt ones who will open shitlists against you.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like he was banned because his operation required too much hassle from BHW part.
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I see it a bit differently.
The fact that Cloutsy couldn't handle so many upset clients to the point that they even became shitlists (no matter whether public or not) together with the attitude he showed here proves there there's a problem in how he runs his business.
 
Satanic_Frozen said:
I'm sure that if the accused had reacted in a polite and civil manner, just informing that the payment has expired and will make a refund when he receive the OP's BTC wallet, none of this would be happening.

But he chose to react in a truculent manner and attacking the OP/mods.

It's a lesson, before you hit the ''post reply'' button, review and rethink what you are going to post, it is better to only deal in a civilized and protocol manner.
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How a person behaves decides to a lot extent how far he will go, both in online and offline world.
 
whitecupg said:
scam is a scam, I don't think anyone gives "second" chance to proven scammers
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technically not a scam as he does refund but with huge delays which hurts the customers business

all cases were probably less than $100 but that even gave him guts to act like he owns the fucking twitter

($5 to refund, $20, $10, some peasants F that, that's how Cloutsy thinks)

imagine doing business with BHW member who delays your order, then a refund for more than week, or it takes few weeks

you also have to submit a SL, explain yourself, submit proofs

chat to panel support and get nuked off because they don't give a f

however, BHW gave him every chance he could imagine to become better

but like BTB said, enough is enough

(I am not staff, so situation behind the scene could be only worse than written here)
 
@INCC you spoke of paypal as the payment processor, you might want to read the terms and conditions you agreed to when signing up to use them.

Ultimately you chose to use a third party payment processor, you provided the link to it, consumers have rights, so it does not matter if you like it or not, in law you are responsible for their money once payment is debited from them through your link / site.

As an aside, i hope that enables you to understand how the "i want to use your merchant account in return for a %" scam works. You are responsible for the scammer providing the goods, as legally the buyer is your customer once payment is debited.
 
GringoMonkey said:
@INCC you spoke of paypal as the payment processor, you might want to read the terms and conditions you agreed to when signing up to use them.

Ultimately you chose to use a third party payment processor, you provided the link to it, consumers have rights, so it does not matter if you like it or not, in law you are responsible for their money once payment is debited from them through your link / site.

As an aside, i hope that enables you to understand how the "i want to use your merchant account in return for a %" scam works. You are responsible for the scammer providing the goods, as legally the buyer is your customer once payment is debited.
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:D :D

I am not legally responsible for Paypal side technical errors. Nobody ever will be.

Please add the part here from their terms & service agreement that states I'm responsible if their gateway malfunctions :D
 
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