ripped off 4k .. what do I do?

I agree with the idea above - put a html "site suspended due to overdue account" type message, and remove the index & wp-config files if it's wordpress so the site pages can't load.

Then tell them you'll put it back and hand it over when they pay what they owe, and point out that the longer they take the more their rankings will drop, and you own the SEO that's got them the rankings in any case - since they haven't paid for it - and you'll be turning all that off in 3 days time if they haven't paid.

Tell the other web company to go fuck themselves, it has jack shit to do with them.

They'll pay up pronto - I've done this with a customer of mine, I had some moron web guy telling me I was being unethical not releasing the site to him - what as unethical as her not paying me for all of the work I've put in, I said - then pointed out he'd be facing the same problems himself if that's how they behave.

She soon coughed up.

Br4mz said:

I would go to their office and talk it out with them, be firm and dont take any bullshit. Do things on your terms and demand your payment, hopefully you had a contract in place.

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I wouldn't, I'd do everything in writing so you have proof.

go to court play there bluff and tell them you want your 4k from there client before reliesing any info .

tell the new company if they want to pay off the 4k for there new client you dont mind and want payment in full before reliesing any data .

also tell them if there no response from there client for paying the 4k directly within 7 days your destroy all data and info .

there move (( fuck with me ill fuck with you get your thinking hat on......))

next time never be that nice always get paid and a solid contract telling them if payment stops so does any work.

dont forget to tell them if you have to travel to any country to go court all exspensives are on them, as the client already ows you 4k .

get everythink in writting as advised .

please also collect all logs and info you got on all messages encase of court.

i dont think you can do small claims court via online tv, if in a international country .(( might be possable to stop traviling cost ))

dont forget you can also claim for the day you have to have off work , even if you work from home , you can claim for lost earnings .

you can even claim for a baby sitter or even school fees

becouse you no your on a win situation becouse you no thay have not paid and got no proof they have paid you , you can take them to the cleaners for other fees...

dont forget to tell the new business what you want and intend if pushed to do.

if you do all the above and tell them in a proper way , there shit there self .

they ant got no chance .

unless you sent any messages telling your client they dont have to pay for your work.

MikeyMikey13 said:

I like the idea but maybe the ranks will be lost in the mean time, as the site will be down. Company then probably won't pay a penny.

If I was OP I would remove all contact details/contact forms/sales functions so the sites rank stay but the company doesn't benefit.

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Maybe but this isn't about their income, this is about HIS income! They've tried to scam him (from what he is saying) - The quicker they pay, the quicker they keep their rankings.

Its simple business!

You don't get a bailiff sent by the courts to stick a letter in their letterbox, you send them to take money or assets.

Two can play that game , tell them you will sue them if they don't pay the money? Easy.

ThatSEO said:

Maybe but this isn't about their income, this is about HIS income! They've tried to scam him (from what he is saying) - The quicker they pay, the quicker they keep their rankings.

Its simple business!

You don't get a bailiff sent by the courts to stick a letter in their letterbox, you send them to take money or assets.

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Yeah but if the work is removed the chances of them paying are close to nothing, if they have a chance of earning then it may sway them to pay, but yeah I don't know the full facts so either one of us could be right!

If you decide to put up a "site suspended due to non-payment" or some other site, do not contact them, just put it up. I personally, would put it as a pop-up with a link to my payment page, every 30 seconds just have it pop-up, no ignoring. That way you're less likely to be seen as damaging their site/income, which could leave you exposed.
If you refuse to turn over login data or anything be VERY VERY careful in how you word it, as some here have made suggestions that would easily be construed as ransom, which again leaves you exposed.

Take your heart out of it, instead, go with your head. Be calm, but refuse to turn anything over until you're paid. Don't trash their site, hold anything for ransom, go in and trash the work you've done. Calmly and poitely inform everyone involved that the site and all information will be transferred upon payment. Put up the pop-up or landing page. Stand firm and keep your messages clear.
"I will happily discuss the matter of transferring all login credentials once this account is unsuspended through payment of all fees"

MisterF said:

What does your contract with these people state ?
What were your terms for payment ?
Are they a UK business?
Are they a sole trader or have Ltd company liability?
Are they solvent?

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These questions are important. If you could answer them...

A lot of comments and advice. Why waste your time further, just give them the login details, remove links, rankings will drop within 6 months, site without rankings is useless.

Thats vey bad..how could you do something.without getting payment.....Learn from this...not everybody are same.

LeanLow said:

A lot of comments and advice. Why waste your time further, just give them the login details, remove links, rankings will drop within 6 months, site without rankings is useless.

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Now this is stupid. So someone spend 6 months building links and you advice him to work EVEN MORE removing the links? Do you have ANY idea how "easy" is to contact every single website you have guest post in? Or to clear dozens and dozens of Web 2.0? All of this for free. Yey why not?

@OP They will never sue for real. Give them ultimatum - pay what you owe me or the website is going down forever. Also tell this new company that contacted you why you are not going to give them anything - they wont be pleased to work with such client as well. If all failed put a title "Hacked by hax00rzz" and fill the website with naked girls - let it index. Then they can have it then.

ThatSEO said:

Put up a simple HTML page saying suspended - Don't delete the site though, just whack up a HTML page so it can't be bypassed. 301 all internal pages back to the new homepage, it will start to hit their SEO pretty quickly as customers will be redirected back to the new home page, from a landing page.

"Site is Suspended. Please contact billing within 72 hours."


That way you can put it as a 'glitch' and say "I will spend time backing up and releasing the site to you once we've got some sort of funds released"

The message will be enough to not want their customers knowing they don't pay their bills but not enough to be slander

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This is a great solution if you want your money back. People panic when they lose access to their data. Just tell them they will get it fully functional after getting paid full

As for me, I wouldnt be so polite. There are things more important than money for me . I would install a small code which will make google show (this site is dangerous) red page. It will kill the website within minutes. I wouldn't mention anything related to its my action and lets them do the math.

Now, if they care about their business reputation, they have to act fast. They aren't losing future customers only, but old ones too.

However, I can see from your replies, you either hiding info, or you are the type of person who stays out of trouble and let people take advantage of him. In this case, just move on and spend sometime learning how to write a contract

KHer0 said:

I wouldnt be so polite. There are things more important than money for me . I would install a small code which will make google show (this site is dangerous) red page.

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Thats what would get YOU in court! That's something we'd all WANT to do but you do not NEED to do that!

The main thing is, showing their customers that they don't pay without actually saying it.. It works way way quicker due to preventing embarrassment

You've got a lot of suggestions on what action to take.

Now, the next & even more important thing is figuring out how you will avoid this in the future. Know what you're worth. Take payments upfront (or at least partial payments upfront).
If you're taking a partial payment upfront (some jobs it makes more sense), get it on contract.

As a seller, the last thing you want to be doing is putting yourself in a position where you have to chase your clients for "money", it just sucks and will negatively affect the relationship.
From the client's perspective, even if they know they owe you money (& they will pay), when you ask them - it most likely will cause a negative affect, whether significant or insignificant, and on top of that it just causes trouble - money is a very sensitive topic.

Once you have a really solid portfolio & reputation, this will build a lot of trust and puts you in a position where it does not make sense for the client to pay "after".


Personally we never take payments AFTER the work. We very very rarely do partial payments (those rare times are for larger based projects in web-design, development and other related stuff, NEVER SEO).


Luka

The outcome of any legal action depends heavily on your country of origin, their country, registrar and hosting used for the domain... If they don't have a legal ownership of the domain, I'd move it to a registrar far from their court system and tell them to pay up the 4k with interests and other costs you've faced because of the hassle. For the future, take it as a lesson, no working for free, pre-payments for stuff like SEO that is hard to charge later on.

don chino said:

The outcome of any legal action depends heavily on your country of origin, their country, registrar and hosting used for the domain... If they don't have a legal ownership of the domain, I'd move it to a registrar far from their court system and tell them to pay up the 4k with interests and other costs you've faced because of the hassle. For the future, take it as a lesson, no working for free, pre-payments for stuff like SEO that is hard to charge later on.

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My sister in law was a lawyer and did a lot of work at small claims court, according to her there's no rhyme or reason to the outcome a lot of the time, she said you can go in thinking you've got a cast iron case and you lose, go in thinking we have no chance and you win.

The judge is a person and people are faulty, so your best bet by a mile is to try and "force" them into paying up without having to resort to court, but not in a way that could make it seem like you're trying to ransom them.

They haven't paid their bills, you're having to do that for them, so simply "stop paying for the hosting" and put up a "site suspended " notice - just like Godaddy or whoever would do to you if you stopped paying.

ThatSEO said:

Thats what would get YOU in court! That's something we'd all WANT to do but you do not NEED to do that!

The main thing is, showing their customers that they don't pay without actually saying it.. It works way way quicker due to preventing embarrassment

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Well good luck proving that I put the code there? I wont do it from my home PC obviously .. and good luck requesting data logs from hosting provider that is in another country for such small case..

take a good lesson from it.
If you want to do something like this which involve business, please make sure to have legal contact.

ttmschine said:

I agree with the idea above - put a html "site suspended due to overdue account" type message, and remove the index & wp-config files if it's wordpress so the site pages can't load.

Then tell them you'll put it back and hand it over when they pay what they owe, and point out that the longer they take the more their rankings will drop, and you own the SEO that's got them the rankings in any case - since they haven't paid for it - and you'll be turning all that off in 3 days time if they haven't paid.

Tell the other web company to go fuck themselves, it has jack shit to do with them.

They'll pay up pronto - I've done this with a customer of mine, I had some moron web guy telling me I was being unethical not releasing the site to him - what as unethical as her not paying me for all of the work I've put in, I said - then pointed out he'd be facing the same problems himself if that's how they behave.

She soon coughed up.

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Best solution in this thread. Go for it and just do it. They will pay.

You could also try to sell it in flippa lol.