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Remember BMR and ALN?

Discussion in 'Black Hat SEO' started by twilightofidols, Jun 10, 2014.

  1. twilightofidols

    twilightofidols Power Member

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    I have a simple question that for some reason I don't know the answer to. When Google went after these blog networks and deindexed them what happened to the sites that were being linked TO with BMR/ALN etc.. links?

    Were they deindexed? Did they get manual actions? Were they penalized? Or did the juice that stopped flowing from the deindexed network simply cause rank decreases without an actual penalty on the users money sites? Did anybody who was relying on these links to rank ever recover their rankings after?
     
  2. twilightofidols

    twilightofidols Power Member

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    UPDATE: Just read an article on moz saying people were handed "Unnatural Link Penalties". I'm wondering if this was the case across the board.
     
  3. Nick Flame

    Nick Flame Executive VIP Premium Member

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    The websites bombed in serps (big drops). I had some sites and it looked to me much worse than simply losing the link juice, cause my link profile was diversified enough that losing bmr links should not have that much of an impact. It was clearly some sort of penalty, although i did not check webmaster tools for them at the time.

    But google aims for the websites benefiting from the link juice in such situations as well. Case in point, when they penalized mybloggguest, they also penalized sites gaining links from them, not only those offering. So pay care when you benefit from public networks, since when the hammer drops, you may be a side effect.
     
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  4. twilightofidols

    twilightofidols Power Member

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    Great answer, thanks for taking the time to write that up. From what I understand usually 1 level buffer is enough to protect a site don't you think? Theoretically every site on the web is only a few degrees away from a penalized site so they can only go so far without causing major damage.

    Questionable Link Network ---> Buffer ---> Money Site

    This seems to be the safe route that most people take. Cutts mentioned going "upstream" I wonder if he meant targeting sites through their buffers as part of that equation.
     
  5. meln

    meln Junior Member Premium Member

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    Just chipping in with my experience, which was the same as Nick Flame's. All sites completely tanked and I gave up on them. Who knows, maybe the penalty would've been lifted eventually but I didn't think it was worth the effort.

    Re: using a buffer layer, IMO that only works long term if you take steps to ensure that it's not completely obvious. If all your inlinks are on pages with these kinds of links pointing to them, it will be very easy to figure out for Google. Maybe you can fool them for a while, maybe not. If you're paranoid like me you try to mix things up as much as possible to avoid these obvious footprints.

    Besides, lets say you use a huge link network linking to your buffer sites and propping them up with mostly those links. Then say that link network gets slapped. What happens next is your buffer sites will lose their power, and your main site will tank. It's like a domino effect.
     
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  6. twilightofidols

    twilightofidols Power Member

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    True. I suppose this is why it's important to diversify your link sources. I mean if you're ranking with a 100 links, let's pretend 20 private PBN sites, 5 sites acting as buffers being fed links from more public networks, and the rest Web 2.0/whatever else. I would imagine 2 things if any of those 5 buffers get hit.

    A. Money site would be safe as long as obvious footprints are avoided. B
    B. Ranking might decrease, but not tremendously. I guess it would depend on the power of the buffers. Then again, just slap up some new buffers, unlink your money site from the penalized ones, and start again I suppose.
     
  7. sudorank

    sudorank Power Member

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    A complete tomb stone all round.

    I didn't even bother trying to recover, I suspect once Google gets you for PBN it's basically goodnight to the domain and start again!
     
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  8. Zombie Pop

    Zombie Pop Regular Member

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    I didnt have links from the two networks in question, but I did get in trouble for using sape links on two sites. The penalty got lifted but they never ranked well again. Definitely some kind of sandbox or penalty still applied to my websites after the unnatural links action was lifted. I observed them for a year, messed with them, sent social signals, built new links, made new and improved content, changed internal links...

    nothing worked.
     
  9. Kikerinka

    Kikerinka Senior Member

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    Yeah I remember it, was a goldmine for greedy people who look for shortcuts, so for me too back then...
    However, my big site tanked completely and even after I disavowed the links much later and sent one of the bets reconsideration requests in history of these requests, even thought I got the message from Google that the penalty has been lifted, the site has never recovered the ranking it had before.

    My advice for you: If you think long term, avoid private networks completely. You can rank and bank without using it too...
     
  10. wizdorf

    wizdorf Regular Member

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    Most of the sites that used BMR received unnatural link penalties and their rankings plummeted.

    However I was able to recover all of my sites, some as quickly as a month and others took about a year.

    I had to have all the links removed via BMR, and similar networks and then work on link removals for other unnatural links that I couldn't remove myself.

    Rankings for most sites are back to previous levels or better.
     
  11. Crewchief007

    Crewchief007 Power Member

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    I hand some sites in BMR and ALN.

    I also had some client's sites in these networks.

    However, if memory serves me correctly, those links ONLY accounted for 3% to 5% of my link diversification portfolio.

    When the hammer was dropped, we [my team] immediately went into overdrive, deleting those links and methodically replacing them with "virgin" high PR, high DA and high PA links from Privately Shared Closed PBNs.

    What a lot of Link Seekers fail to comprehend is this crucial FACT: ANY time a PBN advertises on ANY website, forum or blog, it is no longer a PRIVATE Backlink Network. Get that point drilled in your head!

    PBN Owners will adamantly disagree with me but think about it; private clubs DO NOT allow open memberships. New members MUST BE INVITED and then they are meticulously vetted before they are accepted, if they are accepted.

    With BMR and ALN, anyone could join. To make matters worse, both networks advertised their services as a SLAP in g00gle's face. This is why I kept my link exposure in such networks to a paltry 3% to 5%.

    Word of advice; be very careful about participating in PBNs that publicly advertise their services. Your competitors can report your paid links, g00gle can easily reverse engineer these networks, many networks can be discovered using Ahrefs and other link spy applications. And finally, if any of you recall, there were a number of MIND NUMBED Link Builders who unwittingly outed numerous PBNs.

    Remember these guys?

    Code:
    http://linkbuildinglab.com/
    Here is how they unwittingly participated in outing HPRS:

    Code:
    http://linkbuildinglab.com/high-pr-society-case-study?awt_l=NHzFY&awt_m=3WPseNtMGUkiFy8
    Here is how they unwittingly participated in outing BMR:

    Code:
    http://linkbuildinglab.com/build-my-rank-case-study
    These uncouth BL builders unknowingly sent a number of PBNs down the tube.

    Here is another warning, NEVER join a PBN if they cannot prove they are able to obfuscate their network from ALL prying eyes.

    DULY NOTE; There are ways and means to obfuscate a PBN network 100%!!!

    P.S. DO NOT bother asking me how! DO NOT P.M., me requesting this info. If you do, I WILL block all future P.M.s from you. It would not be advantageous to any PBN owner for this critically valuable information to be made public. Anyone who has a PBN can learn these secrets through sheer determination utilizing Strategic Back Link Network Obfuscation Tactics.
     
  12. nonai

    nonai Power Member

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    I noticed this thread has gotten real popular so I thought I would share my experience.
    I used BMR for a long, long time. maybe over a year. but my results were surprisingly different from most people. I was using them for one money site. when bmr got deindexed, my money site did not get affected at all.
    Now I am not making money from that site any more because a while ago my rankings took a bad hit, but it had nothing to do with BMR, I think it was a panda or penguin hit.
     
  13. twilightofidols

    twilightofidols Power Member

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    Great responses guys thank you all for chipping in

    Great first time I've heard of anyone make a full recovery! Did you strategy also involve building new links? Disavow and Reconsideration?


    That's a heck of a warning at the end of your reply! Thanks for your input. I take every imaginable precaution with my own sites. Sure there might be some things I've missed, but I will learn in due time. Did your clients sites get slapped? Did they recover? Were your clients aware of any ranking changes/fluctuations?

    This is very interesting. Did you remove the BMR links immediately after the network was deindexed? What percentage of your links came from these type of networks?
     
  14. nonai

    nonai Power Member

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    Hey man, thanks for saying my response was interesting. it makes me happy :)
    I would say less than 10%
    No, I didn't remove anything. I thought my site was toast anyway.