Philosophy

I've been visiting BHW quite a while now and i've never seen people talk about philosophy and such.

I've just read an article about what consciousness is and how people developed it. Even though it was a scientific article, i couldn't help but philosophize about it.

I'm really interested in this and i would like to know your view on life.

What's the purpose of life?
Who/What made the universe?
Is there a right or wrong, or have the people defined what right or wrong is?

Moved to the Lounge. I really, really enjoyed the book Consciousness Explained by Dr. Daniel Dennett. I've also had the opportunity to see him speak on a few separate occasions and urge anyone interested in the subject to do the same. Another book that I really enjoyed that approached this subject from a few different perspectives was Prometheus Rising by Robert Anton Wilson (RIP).

I have a feeling this will quickly devolve into a religious conversation, but there are serious, entirely scientific enquiries going on with regard to this subject, so I'll let it go for now.

I predict that after reading pages upon pages of discussion you will end up just as confused as you are right now. There is no such thing as "right or wrong" when it comes to philosophy simply because that particular subject is all about ideas that can't be proved nor disproved.

Have fun.

Even though there is some truth in your post, i'll have to disagree.
What you are talking about is science, proving something right or wrong.. I'm talking about philosophy.

Those moments when you discover a new perspective on life can be life altering and i don't think it's really important if it can be proved or disproved.

what the bleep do we know - documentary on some far out stuff quantum physics and stuff, time, 4th dimension bla bla.

The purpose to life, I believe is to procreate. It's a constant cycle, that will only end when everything ceases to exist. Beyond that, it's to survive, everything else is irrelevant to me. Life is to short to be spending time thinking upon such things that you may never find an answer to when you could simply just be enjoying what you have, while you have it.

This is just the way I feel, and everyone should be encouraged to enjoy life with what they believe as they see fit, so long as it doesn't impede on anyone else's life.

All humans understand the world through analogy - by seeing how something is like, or not like, something else. This may seem far-fetched but think about it for a moment.

Knowledge of everything, even number, comes through analogy. Number is understanding analogies between groups of objects. What do they have in common? there are "2" objects in this group, just like there are "2" objects in all other "groups which contain 2 objects".

Leading from this, I believe that we find consciousness mysterious for this reason:

We have no analogy for consciousness. We can only ever experience our own and never anybody elses. Consciousness is not "like" anything else we ever experience, and we cannot compare it directly to anything. Hence the so-called mystery.

I agree with Roger Penrose and Daniel Dennett in the assertion that there is no real reason why a machine could not be just as conscious as we are.

to see who can conquer the world ?

hmm i don't really tihnk much of this , maybe sometimes when im alone going to sleep or something at winter here is pretty dark even on days and got to say sometimes when TV is not on and its all quiet it feels so fucking absurd. Also i remember 1 day few years back before Christmas nothing interesting really happened that day but fuck id like to live that day again dunno really what it is in that day ( wonder if this all my shit was pretty off topic but w/e )

oh yes brb nuclear lab ->

I'm a nihilist and an atheist.

I find it pretty funny watching everyone trying to make "sense" of it all. Pick a delusion and run with it. Doesn't matter.

Have a nice day.

Micallef said:

All humans understand the world through analogy - by seeing how something is like, or not like, something else. This may seem far-fetched but think about it for a moment.

Knowledge of everything, even number, comes through analogy. Number is understanding analogies between groups of objects. What do they have in common? there are "2" objects in this group, just like there are "2" objects in all other "groups which contain 2 objects".

Leading from this, I believe that we find consciousness mysterious for this reason:

We have no analogy for consciousness. We can only ever experience our own and never anybody elses. Consciousness is not "like" anything else we ever experience, and we cannot compare it directly to anything. Hence the so-called mystery.

I agree with Roger Penrose and Daniel Dennett in the assertion that there is no real reason why a machine could not be just as conscious as we are.

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I can imagine some people saying that for something/someone to become consciousness, it needs a soul or something alike. Therefor, a machine cannot become conscious.

However, i believe i heard that people can already reproduce organs to use for transplants.
With this in mind, i think it's only a matter of time before the first conscious machine is created.

But it would be very interesting if they find out where consciousness derives from.

What's the purpose of life?
Acting out the laws and forces of the universe.

Who/What made the universe?
People think that it's logical something had to be created out of nothing when in fact "nothing" doesn't even exist. There's no such thing as nothing. Everything is something. "Something" is actually a lot more logical state. You know, vacuum isn't actually empty space, there's a bunch of weird particles in there all the time.

Is there a right or wrong, or have the people defined what right or wrong is?
Well of course we did. Because it helps us to survive and function as a society. Killing isn't entirely wrong. Nor is destroying. Nothing is right or wrong for everyone.

seoex said:

why stop researching if there science is there, eg:If somebody hit you, don't you want think about the reason of it, because there is reason.

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Can you imagine if the first guy stopped wondering how he could "have fun without woman"

Here's to you the first guy who, uhm successfully masturbated... when all told him he would break it off if he tried.

My life would be miserable without your contribution

oldenstylehats said:

Moved to the Lounge. I really, really enjoyed the book Consciousness Explained by Dr. Daniel Dennett. I've also had the opportunity to see him speak on a few separate occasions and urge anyone interested in the subject to do the same. Another book that I really enjoyed that approached this subject from a few different perspectives was Prometheus Rising by Robert Anton Wilson (RIP).

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I second this.

On a basal level, there is little to discuss other than what scientific inquiry can provide.

When I feel in the mood to discuss, or ponder over, consciousness in a, dare I say it, metaphysical (Ehw) level, I read the works of Pim Van Lommel. I essentially get rid off his juvenile interpretation of Quantum Mechanics and cut out anything New Age, and what is left is a mindnumbing hypothesis that may very well establish a base for an endless consciousness. Regardless of this, there is no meaning to be found in life, and any deity ascribed to the governing of trivial affairs such as human fate is logically impossible; the people adhering to such "beliefs" prime examples of humanity's mental immaturity.

Other than this, I discuss religion from an anti-theist viewpoint, as well as many topics related to ethics and scientific development, nearly every day for at least a few hours.

These are not matters to be discussed on BHW, though. The subjects can only be discussed by those intellectually equipped to conceive of concepts beyond their frame of reference, and to be fair, even if such individuals could be found here, there are better times and better places to address these issues.

Have a good day.

"In the beginning God created the heavens and the universe...

This has made a lot of people really angry and has widely been regarded as a bad idea." -- Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy.

SpazzyMcSpazz said:

Is there a right or wrong, or have the people defined what right or wrong is?
Well of course we did. Because it helps us to survive and function as a society. Killing isn't entirely wrong. Nor is destroying. Nothing is right or wrong for everyone.

Click to expand...

We were conditioned to have positive and negative feelings, so how can there not be right and wrong, because if there was no right and wrong, how can you feel positive or negative?

Killing is natural. Animals kill animals to survive, but did you ever see an animal kill an animal because he felt like it?

@IcedCube: Everything is logical and even though things might seem to happen randomly, there's actually a reason for everything that happens. I always view life as a program and if you digg deep into the code, you'll see there's always a structure behind everything.

How can you not believe that an intelligent force/deity has created the universe, if you see how balanced everything in life is?

Moneymaka said:

We were conditioned to have positive and negative feelings, so how can there not be right and wrong, because if there was no right and wrong, how can you feel positive or negative?

Killing is natural. Animals kill animals to survive, but did you ever see an animal kill an animal because he felt like it?

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Well soldiers in war could have a positive feeling about killing, does that mean it's OK?
And no one ever does anything "just because he feels like it". We all have our reasons. Ever seen a human kill a human for no reason? However sick that reason might be, it's still a reason. Even if it's just out of boredom.

ive got masters degree in philosophy after univeristy.. and thingi can tell u - dont digg in that if u dont want to have panic attacs or other disorders. i rgeret i knowwhat i know.

The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind by Julian Jaynes

One of the best books I have read on the subject

BTW Philosophy always devolves into the old argument of is there or isn't there a God

SpazzyMcSpazz said:

Well soldiers in war could have a positive feeling about killing, does that mean it's OK?
And no one ever does anything "just because he feels like it". We all have our reasons. Ever seen a human kill a human for no reason? However sick that reason might be, it's still a reason. Even if it's just out of boredom.

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You're still proving my point. People feel positive and negative, therefor there is a good and bad.

Actually, that is no reason, if you compare us with a lion or any other animal.
I don't know much about animals, but i could safely assume that an animal kills to survive. We kill because of more complicated reasons, which should be considered wrong, unless it's to survive.

Though if you look from another perspective, people killing people is a good way to decrease the rate of the increase of human population...which is a good thing??

Moneymaka said:

but did you ever see an animal kill an animal because he felt like it?

@IcedCube: Everything is logical and even though things might seem to happen randomly, there's actually a reason for everything that happens. I always view life as a program and if you digg deep into the code, you'll see there's always a structure behind everything.

How can you not believe that an intelligent force/deity has created the universe, if you see how balanced everything in life is?

Click to expand...

Although I'm not sure the rules even allow this, you asked the question in such a way that it would be disrespectful for me not to reply. I will only answer once, though, and I will leave that particular topic afterward. I am in no mood for a ban.

I do believe everything is logical and comes from distinct causes. In that sense, little is there free will, if any. (And I think I made this particularly clear.)

By asking that question in the way you did, you brought up the exact point that makes this argument ultimately so futile.

- First off, were everything NOT balanced, or were NOT everything balanced, in the way this universe is (if we assume, for a moment, that it is in fact balanced, and that reality, as we perceive it, is, in fact, real), you wouldn't have been asking that question. Therefore, it is logically impossible for this universe to not be balanced, regardless of the initial source, as long as you can make that inquiry.

We may, after all, merely live in one universe, out of many, with this one being one of few that allow sentient life as we know it.

- Secondly, an intelligent entity/being/force (and I reject that term on so many levels) being the cause of this universe, unlikely as that may be, would still in no way contribute to the image of a personal deity - one that cares about human affairs.

On many logical grounds, any theistic entity is completely impossible. Some theological positions, such as pandeism and pantheism (this actually not being a theological position as such), allow room for a possibly conscious, possibly sentient, possibly responsible source.

Pim van Lommel calls this entity Quantum Mechanics.

In essence, what can be concluded, is that this entity not governs, but IS the natural laws themselves.

A higher consciousness, as I stated before.

And this is as far as I'm willing to discuss this matter at this point in time. Real life has awoken; it sure woke up on the wrong foot.

Good day.