Philosophy

Moneymaka · Oct 20, 2009

IcedCube said:
Secondly, an intelligent entity/being/force (and I reject that term on so many levels) being the cause of this universe, unlikely as that may be, would still in no way contribute to the image of a personal deity - one that cares about human affairs.

On many logical grounds, any theistic entity is completely impossible. Some theological positions, such as pandeism and pantheism (this actually not being a theological position as such), allow room for a possibly conscious, possibly sentient, possibly responsible source.

Pim van Lommel calls this entity Quantum Mechanics.

In essence, what can be concluded, is that this entity not governs, but IS the natural laws themselves.

A higher consciousness, as I stated before.

And this is as far as I'm willing to discuss this matter at this point in time. Real life has awoken; it sure woke up on the wrong foot.

Good day.

That's basically what i was trying to say. We were created by purpose, whether by a personal deity, like you called it or by a higher consciousness.

It's actually something that annoys me when atheists mock the belief or even possibility that a higher consciousness might exist.

But i agree, i'll leave the religious aspect of philosophy( even though i don't see this as religion) as it is.

iglow said:
ive got masters degree in philosophy after univeristy.. and thingi can tell u - dont digg in that if u dont want to have panic attacs or other disorders. i rgeret i knowwhat i know.

You probably have the tendency to get panic attacks, so i don't think it's just because you learned philosophy

Micallef · Oct 20, 2009

Moneymaka said:
How can you not believe that an intelligent force/deity has created the universe, if you see how balanced everything in life is?

The pleasure in this world, it has been said, outweighs the pain; or, at any rate, there is an even balance between the two. If the reader wishes to see shortly whether this statement is true, let him compare the respective feelings of two animals, one of which is engaged in eating the other.

- Schopenhauer

IcedCube · Oct 20, 2009

Moneymaka said:
That's basically what i was trying to say. We were created by purpose, whether by a personal deity, like you called it or by a higher consciousness.

It's actually something that annoys me when atheists mock the belief or even possibility that a higher consciousness might exist.

I do not think we were created by purpose, and find the idea absurd, personally.

On that note, I willfully admit that this subjective view is heavily biased by years of aversion to Christian indoctrination experienced first- and third-hand (although more so on logical grounds).

I also do not believe that the idea of a higher consciousness, in the way you present it, is deserving of mockery, and if my tone implied this, I deeply regret this.

@One of the previous posts: Master in Philosophy? This lead to psychological breakdowns? I wouldn't want to possess your knowledge?

Though I'm relatively uneducated in various philosophical teachings, I highly doubt that you've gained knowledge of something that would render my psychological status unstable. I've already seen the worst of the empirical world; I will not suffer the rational one to subdue my mental strength.

NOTE: yes, I said I would be gone, but I'm terrible at managing my time to do what I have to do, instead of what I'd like to do. That said, I will now depart, and hopefully have some time to add something tomorrow.

Moneymaka · Oct 20, 2009

IcedCube said:
I do not think we were created by purpose, and find the idea absurd, personally.

On that note, I willfully admit that this subjective view is heavily biased by years of aversion to Christian indoctrination experienced first- and third-hand (although more so on logical grounds).

I also do not believe that the idea of a higher consciousness, in the way you present it, is deserving of mockery, and if my tone implied this, I deeply regret this.

@One of the previous posts: Master in Philosophy? This lead to psychological breakdowns? I wouldn't want to possess your knowledge?

Though I'm relatively uneducated in various philosophical teachings, I highly doubt that you've gained knowledge of something that would render my psychological status unstable. I've already seen the worst of the empirical world; I will not suffer the rational one to subdue my mental strength.

NOTE: yes, I said I would be gone, but I'm terrible at managing my time to do what I have to do, instead of what I'd like to do. That said, I will now depart, and hopefully have some time to add something tomorrow.

So you're saying everything was created by accident?

And really no need to apologize, i wasn't talking about you.
It's just something that happens whenever there is a debate with atheists

We might talk again tomorrow then.

Micallef · Oct 20, 2009

Moneymaka said:
So you're saying everything was created by accident?

And really no need to apologize, i wasn't talking about you.
It's just something that happens whenever there is a debate with atheists

We might talk again tomorrow then.

It is entirely possible for the world to just "be" for no reason. It is the most plausible scenario. Creation by a consciousness is much less plausible because people looking with their eyes and thinking with their brains have come to colclude that things start small and simple and slowly build up into complex things. This way of thinking passes all tests time and again. It is the scientific method and it is why you are sitting at a computer.

Isn't it a little weird to say the universe was created by a mind when the universe went for 13 billion years without any minds? Then suddenly, people with minds come along and projected their simplistic understanding of their minds upon the whole of existence.

albaniax · Oct 21, 2009

I have to agree with what Micallef said.

My parents are muslims, and so is the rest of my familiy, or 95% where I come from (not germany)

But I don't believe religion at all, it is just there, so that people actually "believe" something, and don't lose there hope.

But this thread is about philosophy, and not religion

My favourite is Immanuel Kant, he thinks like me. I also read sometimes Nietzsche, but he is too much an atheist. Schopenhauer is also great. Uff all germans

twoj04 · Oct 21, 2009

I believe we will die before ever finding out anything of importance.

Life is short, live it up!

$$$$ :sombrero:

cruzer · Oct 21, 2009

My signature has a bit of philosophy. The first person to describe what it means will get a thanks.

tymillz · Oct 21, 2009

My take on philosophy comes from a saying that we use in the hood...

"It is what it is."

Stumickel · Oct 21, 2009

The purpose of life is to be born, grow, blossom, wilt, and die.

In that order.

Sometimes that cycle gets interrupted.

Sometimes you reproduce.

Also, you eat a bunch of other lives along the way and some other lives eventually eat you.

All that's true, but man does that sound dismal...

As to my own attitude, I'm feeling in a real quirky mood. The words of St. Augustine of Hippo in the Confessions have been haunting my serenity recently:

As a youth I prayed, "Give me chastity and continence, but not yet."

--St. Augustine of Hippo

callmelucid · Oct 21, 2009

everyone has a purpose and everything happens for a reason.

Moneymaka · Oct 21, 2009

Micallef said:
Isn't it a little weird to say the universe was created by a mind when the universe went for 13 billion years without any minds? Then suddenly, people with minds come along and projected their simplistic understanding of their minds upon the whole of existence.

I believe whatever created us, has put certain laws in motion and then let those laws do its thing. The law of gravitation, for example and many other laws, some of which we do not know it exists, and some that we can see happen, but haven't realized it's a certain law.

Most of the logical things could be considered as a law.
The world's way of decreasing or slowing the rate of the increase of the human population. Diseases, war, natural disasters ...
A cure for Aids? Might seem like a big deal, but another disease will pop up soon after Aids will no longer be recognized as a deadly disease.

People need to realize that everything is logical and fair even at times when it looks impossible that life can be fair.

Stumickel · Oct 21, 2009

hexalor,

Sorry.

My quote wasn't trying to focus on religion so much as the changing perspective we have in different times of our lives. I have seen that quote so often in philosophy texts that I almost forgot that it could be considered a religious issue.

Frankly, my favorite overall philosopher is Aristotle Onassis and my favorite social philosopher is Groucho Marx.

Kan't let your imperatives get too categorical...

IcedCube · Oct 21, 2009

To clarify and cease my contribution to this thread: I do not believe there is a purpose, any claims towards this point have been proven to be unsubstantiated, and no, everything happens not at random, but in perfect order. Order that could only be perceived if present.

Needless to say, this is a rather mute point, and I deem myself incapable of further discussing this issue without addressing religion in the process. (as the two connect here)

I wish to you all, a good day, and I hope you'll be able to make the realizations I have not yet been able to.

kendra · Oct 24, 2009

Micallef said:
I agree with Roger Penrose and Daniel Dennett in the assertion that there is no real reason why a machine could not be just as conscious as we are.

Indeed. Though think about that a bit further.

Humans can only experience 'consciousness' from their own view point. Conscious machines on the other hand would have the possibility of experiencing another beings consciousness. Hypothetically, one machine connects to another, and not only sees through that other machines eyes, but knows on every level what it is like to be that other machine.

In short conscious machines could 'prove' the nature of consciousness - as they experience it - far better than we ever could.

Philosophy

Moneymaka

Junior Member

Micallef

Supreme Member

IcedCube

Junior Member

Moneymaka

Junior Member

Micallef

Supreme Member

albaniax

Elite Member

twoj04

Power Member

cruzer

Junior Member

tymillz

Senior Member

Stumickel

Junior Member

callmelucid

Regular Member

Moneymaka

Junior Member

Stumickel

Junior Member

IcedCube

Junior Member

kendra

BANNED

Main Menu

Marketplace

Making Money

BlackHatWorld

Other