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On Getting Paid And STAYING PAID!

Discussion in 'BlackHat Lounge' started by Uptownbulker, Feb 5, 2008.

  1. Uptownbulker

    Uptownbulker BANNED BANNED

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    Having sold over 10,000 individual items online, via one selling site or the next, I have some experience in getting paid and staying paid, so listen up!

    This post is predicated on the idea that you are a reliable seller and not a scammer; scammers already know how to steal your money.

    This post is also predicated on the idea that 99% of buyers are good guys and gals but that the 1% of buyers who are assholes can ruin your financial life very quickly.

    I "lose" some sales in my incorporation business because I only allow payment by Western Union or USPS Money Orders.

    Guess what?

    I don't get chargebacks from someone who has set out to scam me!

    I don't get chargebacks from guys or gals who are not smart enough to use whatever item, service or product for which they have paid me!

    I don't get chargebacks from scammers who have already received the service, product or item who bought it with the intention of scamming me.

    I can sell you a wrench but I cannot guarrantee that you are smart enough to use it properly!

    I can sell you a wrench but cannot be responsible if you piss off your neighbour and he conks you on the skull with said wrench.

    In America, there is very much a "buyer mentality"; in that, the buyer is thought to always have the right to a refund and it just ain't so!

    There is no law which says that a seller must make a refund to an unhappy buyer.

    There is no law which says that a buyer has a so-called "three day right of recission", except on IN HOME SALES in which I have knocked on your door uninvited; if you have invited me and buy, no such right exists.

    Credit card companies are all about the buyer and offer the seller little protection and most credit card transactions can be reversed for months and in some states YEARS after the transaction!

    Now, if I have fucked up, I will refund you; if you have fucked up, you are on your own!

    If I have done business with you before, I may or may not accept a credit card or a payment service such as PayPal.

    If what I am selling is on the "prohibited" list of a credit card company or PayPal, I will NOT accept payment via those services as I will not risk the account for a few bucks on an individual sale.

    All sorts of ordinary shit is on the prohibited lists of PayPal and credit card companies and that fact doesn't imply that there is anything wrong with the stuff; only that it is there.

    For example, by the TOS of PayPal, you may not buy a pack of smokes using your PayPal debit card!

    Doubt me?

    Check the TOS and you will find that the TOS very specifically says that you may not use PayPal services to pay for tobacco products!

    You may also not use PayPal to sell or buy certain kinds of software!

    Did you know that Cashier's Checks, Bank Drafts and "Certified" Checks, Wire Transfers and Electronic Funds Transfers can be reversed?

    You bet they can and I've had it done by scammers!

    I once got a call from my bank telling me that a guy who had sent me money to pay for a car had his bank send an ACH transaction to MY bank to get his money back; this while he was on the way to pick up the car!

    When he got there he picked up something all right but it was his ass off the pavement, NOT the car!

    Cash a USPS Money Order or a Western Union MoneyGram and let them try to reverse THAT!

    Unless you know and trust your buyer, it does not make sense to accept payment in any form that is reversible.

    Buyer doesn't like it?

    Tough!

    Thank them for looking and send them on down the road!

    Not to put too fine a point on it but..........

    Fuck you!

    Pay me!
     
  2. caretaker2007

    caretaker2007 Power Member

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    Yeah, I know what you mean. In my off line work I accept cash, don;t have it, the ATM is across the street, go fetch it. Never had a charge back or refund, although people have tried. The big sign says that there is no such beast.

    The customer is NOT always right!!
     
  3. titalian

    titalian Junior Member

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    I definitely agree with that....one reason why i have mostly only accepted WU in the passed for whatever good or services i had to offer. ;)

    Plus the fact that you can always remain anonymous much easier. hehe

    Good post for sellers protection....however...."Buyers beware"
    Unless you market your product with some form of guarantee or what not....then there should be no reason to soley protect yourself or the seller him/herself.

    So either way i think they should always be noted by the seller either with some form of guarantee or a small "no refunds" policy. With that, i'm sure you can win yourself out of chargebacks etc. However how many sellers wanna put a few lines of "no refunds" in their ads or services? Hm not many....i sometimes wonder why hehe
     
  4. SmallStorm

    SmallStorm Junior Member

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    I think some sellers through Paypal hide behind Paypal's rules on refunding for intangible/subscriptions to scam buyers. Not saying all sellers accepting Paypal scam people, but seems they are on the increase.

    Thanks for the post Uptownbulker. Merchants come across alot of scammers as well. It's wise for a merchant to protect themselves, as well as a consumer to protect themselves.

    As a Paypal user, I try not to buy anything intangible/subscription if possible. One exception is this forum.

    An example of how sellers using paypal could screw a person out of money is for instance the 1yr membership to this forum. The price includes 1yr to the download. Now suppose my account got canceled. I file a complaint with Paypal. Reason is not getting what I paid for. I guess a person could argue that when the subscription starts, it's been recieved; or could argue that subscription hasn't been recieved until the full year has passed. I wouldn't get my money back because Paypal doesn't (from what I've experienced) refunds on subscriptions. This is just an example and has not happened.

    Chris
     
  5. titalian

    titalian Junior Member

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    Imagine a world with ONLY 100% protected seller protection? Whoa...just the thought would be insane lol
     
  6. Uptownbulker

    Uptownbulker BANNED BANNED

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    I always indicate "ALL SALES ARE FINAL! NO REFUNDS, NO EXCHANGES, NO IN-HOUSE CREDIT, ALL MERCHANDISE SOLD IS AS-IS/WHERE-IS!"

    I used this or a similar statement in EVERY eBay listing that I ever put up unless I was selling an item that did come with a money-back warranty.

    Even stating that does not preclude a chargeback via a payment service as payment services are buyer oriented and will accept a chargeback from a buyer which the seller must take time out of his/her life to deal with and may well lose!

    I have lost chargebacks to:

    "I just don't want it any more!"

    "It doesn't match my walls!"; asshole, you never said that you wanted it to "match your walls"!

    "I wish I hadn't bought this, can I have my money back and will you pay for return shipping?"

    "I thought that this part would fit my Denbeigh Super Chauvinist but it is for a Camaro, just like your listing said, so can I have my money back now that the part is all greasy and nasty and out of the box?"

    "My wife got mad at me for buying this so I want a refund!"

    "I bought this thinking that I would use it but decided to have someone else do the work, so can I get my money back?"

    "You said in your listing that shipping would be 3-5 days and it took six, so I want a 50% refund or I'll charge you back and each day that you do not refund me my demand will go up 10% and then I'll charge the whole thing back!"

    "I bought this for ________________ but he doesn't like it so I'm charging back the purchase."

    These "complaints" are REAL!

    In the course of my online selling, I have been given each of these excuses for chargebacks.

    Fuck you.

    Pay me!
     
  7. titalian

    titalian Junior Member

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    Hehe at that point i'd say the same....

    people just don't watch their spending habits.....then they get the calls from the collector's and they scramble to save on one of their last purchases lol

    the collector's are basically telling them the same ...FUCK YOU PAY ME lol gotta love it
     
  8. Uptownbulker

    Uptownbulker BANNED BANNED

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    ROFLMAO!

    You almost made me INHALE my coffee with that one!
     
  9. trophaeum

    trophaeum Senior Member

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    iv gotta say, that complaints list is scary! gah, ok, western union ftw it would seem!