Moving to a cheaper country

Capo Dei Capi said:

No, the USA has much better internet than Thailand does.
Also Cloudflare doesn't mean shit, how the fuck is going to increase the speed of FTP and many other online stuff.

Click to expand...

USA has better internet than Thailand based on what?

Cloud flare tech works both ways.. Thai server means the FTP is just as quick - than cloudflare would mirror/cache your site for the Americans.

You sound like a trump supporter at this point. 'Merica!

tasburrfoot said:

USA has better internet than Thailand based on what?

Cloud flare tech works both ways.. Thai server means the FTP is just as quick - than cloudflare would mirror/cache your site for the Americans.

Click to expand...

So 100Gbps internet in major American and European cities has now been outlawed because of your posts or something? Has the latency from New York to LA increased and now Bangkok has lower latency to LA?

Capo Dei Capi said:

So 100Gbps internet in major American and European cities has now been outlawed because of your posts or something?

Click to expand...

You act like Thailand doesn't have 100gbps connections..

Here's what your not factoring - they have the same technology and infrastructure as we do.

They have less users. Less users = less load.

They don't have shitty net neutrality laws, and they don't throttle their users anywhere near the same extent that American Telecom providers do..

tasburrfoot said:

You act like Thailand doesn't have 100gbps connections..

Here's what your not factoring - they have the same technology and infrastructure as we do.

They have less users. Less users = less load.

They don't have shitty net neutrality laws, and they don't throttle their users anywhere near the same extent that American Telecom providers do..

Click to expand...

Business connections aren't throttled they are unlimited. Even if Thailand does have 100Gbps so much of its going to drop off to major datacenters. If someone likes Thailand because of the climate,geographic, features,ladyboys and culture, its one thing and they should just admit why they like it. But its not a better place for doing business than Europe or America.

i want to die from natural causes. not some from some krazed 3rd worlder sawing my head off LOL

Capo Dei Capi said:

Business connections aren't throttled they are unlimited. Even if Thailand does have 100Gbps so much of its going to drop off to major datacenters. If someone likes Thailand because of the climate,geographic, features,ladyboys and culture, its one thing and they should just admit why they like it. But its not a better place for doing business than Europe or America.

Click to expand...

Density of millionaires/billionaires in Asia vs the USA.. I beg to differ.

tasburrfoot said:

Density of millionaires/billionaires in Asia vs the USA.. I beg to differ.

Click to expand...

And?

US ranks 7th for millionaires per capita, but has 30x more total than the #1 per capita, with only 2 Asian countries surpassing it in per capita(5 if you count middle east as asia). #13 in billionaire per capita ranks, but has more than double the amount of billionaires as #2 in total number ranking. When it comes to per capita, 7 of the top 10 are european.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/photo-essays/2011-06-02/twenty-countries-with-the-highest-proportion-of-millionaires
http://www.businessinsider.com/countries-ranked-by-billionaires-in-proportion-to-population-2015-7/#monaco-11115

I don't know what you guys saying but @Capo Dei capi nail it with his knowledge or at least pretends

Capo Dei Capi said:

It isn't this simple, you actually need to have a real office in that country and directors to manage it, and any money brought into the USA would be taxed for personal income tax.

Also the USA is a tax haven in PR and the USVI.

Click to expand...

If by PR you mean Puerto Rico, then you are right. The 3% in my post was aimed at that. It's one of the best options for Americans to evade taxes legally by taking advantage of act 20 and act 22 in PR's tax code and also section 933 & 861 in US Internal Revenue Code. It's true that you will have to move to PR for 6 months in 1 year to become a bona fide resident and employ at least 3 people, but if you are smart about it, you can handle everything remotely (except the living part) and still save yourself hundreds of thousands of $$ in tax.

Now, this is for US people, because the US is the only shitty country in the world (along with another God-forsaken country in Africa that I forgot its name) that taxes its nationals for all worldwide income despite if they live in the US or not. Other nationals do not have this problem. I have dual nationality - a third world country and an EU one that can get me to the US without visa. So, if I do business with US customers, do not meet IRS's physical presence test within a given year (for tax purposes) and have my business incorporated in Hong Kong let's say (tax heaven), I will pay SHIT to the IRS! It's that simple as a concept and it's all legal, but you need a good lawyer who knows a great deal about International Tax Laws and can suggest you the best option based on your business type, income levels and needs.

$1000/month in PH is not a luxurious life even it's a third world country but i think somehow you can go for unforgettable travel and exploration experience that always suits your budget.

All you need is just friend to guide you when you go travel and explore the island, (a trusted one) lot of foreigner here even they got married filipina ladies and most of them are too old i mean around 50s-60s and yet marry a 20s-30s filipina .

toml3030 said:

The problem with this will be that under US tax laws while your corporate taxes are minimized, IRS expects you to 1. pay yourself a fair wage and 2. You are subject to US taxes on foreign income (US is one of the few countries who does this). You can't just claim that all the money you have is legal because you own a foreign corporation; that will get sent you to jail.

Click to expand...

Yes, you can, read my post above about PR if you are an American by nationality. Please do not speak crap without knowing all the facts, everything I am mentioning here comes from reality and lawyers in real-life (New York City if you are wondering), not some fictional knowledge gained by searching Google. The fact is and remains (and will remain for a long time in the future) that, if you own an Internet-related/based business or any business whose services can be entirely performed remotely (not within US borders), then that business's corporate earnings are NOT taxed in the US. Dividends are indeed taxed on American nationals despite where the company is located, but due to PR's special status with the US, you can get all dividends out of the company tax-free as long as you become a bona fide resident there, which isn't that bad if you're gonna save 6 figures in taxes.

THUNDERELVI said:

If by PR you mean Puerto Rico, then you are right. The 3% in my post was aimed at that. It's one of the best options for Americans to evade taxes legally by taking advantage of act 20 and act 22 in PR's tax code and also section 933 & 861 in US Internal Revenue Code. It's true that you will have to move to PR for 6 months in 1 year to become a bona fide resident and employ at least 3 people, but if you are smart about it, you can handle everything remotely (except the living part) and still save yourself hundreds of thousands of $$ in tax.

Now, this is for US people, because the US is the only shitty country in the world (along with another God-forsaken country in Africa that I forgot its name) that taxes its nationals for all worldwide income despite if they live in the US or not. Other nationals do not have this problem. I have dual nationality - a third world country and an EU one that can get me to the US without visa. So, if I do business with US customers, do not meet IRS's physical presence test within a given year (for tax purposes) and have my business incorporated in Hong Kong let's say (tax heaven), I will pay SHIT to the IRS! It's that simple as a concept and it's all legal, but you need a good lawyer who knows a great deal about International Tax Laws and can suggest you the best option based on your business type, income levels and needs.

Click to expand...

I think that their may be an exception if an American is living in Canada due to some tax treaty with Canada. The UK also taxes its citizens for worldwide income if they haven't broken enough ties to the UK. Puerto Rico and the USVI may be less costly to setup a company to make sure you aren't having a company considered a controlled foreign corporation. If I setup a company in Bulgaria for example to pay 10% taxes, well if I don't have a director there and office, it will be considered American and be subject to US corporate taxes. Most nations are now doing the CFC rules to do away with tax evasion loopholes.

BigTroll said:

Dude, you don't have any fuckin' guarantee that your Internet Marketing success will last for 50 years!
And there are more important factors: the criminality its much higher, the education is more poor, hospitals are not at the highest level....you want the best for your kids (supposing you won't do IM on a room, single, for the rest of your life).

Click to expand...

This is what the US government and media want you to believe...
Education in US is pretty average, just check the results where they compare youngsters from all around the world.
US has the 2nd highest incarceration rate on the planet, and the freedom that they praise so much, is in fact just an illusion... Walk a bit out of the line the government drew and you'll and up in prison.
The hospitals aren't better than in Cuba, not to compare them with some European or Asian countries.

And for your kids: If you want your kids to become fat and brainwashed nationalists, who will purse the American dream, going into huge debt for life, or possibly go to kill other people in "poor" countries, because they are proud on their mother America and want to fight for her, then for sure - stay in the United States... Really, the best thing you can do for your kids...

THUNDERELVI said:

It's true that you will have to move to PR for 6 months in 1 year

Click to expand...

I thought it was something like 183 days/year or 6 months plus 1 day.

Kikerinka said:

This is what the US government and media want you to believe...
Education in US is pretty average, just check the results where they compare youngsters from all around the world.
US has the 2nd highest incarceration rate on the planet, and the freedom that they praise so much, is in fact just an illusion... Walk a bit out of the line the government drew and you'll and up in prison.
The hospitals aren't better than in Cuba, not to compare them with some European or Asian countries.

And for your kids: If you want your kids to become fat and brainwashed nationalists, who will purse the American dream, going into huge debt for life, then for sure - stay in the United States... Really, the best thing you can do for your kids...

Click to expand...

The Hospitals are better than in cuba and on par with the ones in West+North Europe and the wealthier Asian countries.It was the healthcare coverage issue that was a problem until a few years ago for some. Europe doesn't offer free health care what they do offer is a system that gives you healthcare insurance by taking it out of your paycheck via taxes and where you don't spend 15 minutes applying for it manually.
They won't get fat or not fat because of a country they are in, they will follow what the parent did. Its like claiming I'd become an alcoholic if I move to Russia and die by 55 from liver failure(some people have actually told me that would happen).
The incarceration rate isn't an issue, the vast majority of people are in prison because of their own fault. Its really not complicated and hard to never do drugs and to not be a thug. If you are not a druggie or a thug in Europe, you probably aren't going to go to jail in America if you move.
There is a growing minimalist movement going on with young people. You also never were forced to buy a single family home to show off, it was always a personal choice same with all the ways people get in debt. If you teach your kids about making good fiscal choices they won't have a problem anywhere.
The US has a great education system, but there are large segments of the population that don't care and they bring down the overall average for HS.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/universityeducation/11896268/Top-100-world-universities-201516-THE-rankings.html


While I can't go into details for obvious reasons I will give Europe props, the major cities of Europe are much better to be in if safety is your concern.

I actually did move to a "cheaper country", a couple of years ago! My rationale was simply, "Hell, life's really short why not, for a while?".

London to India, although, I'd hesitate to call India cheap these days, I paid over 800 Rupees (>$11!) for an imported box of Kellogg's Rice Krispies (for the kids, of course! Yes, I do spoil them, I know!).

In my experience, there are four kinds of westerners that move to India (or any other "cheaper country", for that matter):

1. Seconded Expatriates: Those that are sent by their HQ here and live like absolute kings (USD/EUR/GBP salary, massive apartment, private health care plan, private school education subsistence, drivers, cooks, cleaners, etc,).
2. Retirees or those that hold foreign assets/cashflows: (freehold property on rent and/or other domiciled asset/working capital).
3. Those on a year off, traveling or volunteering for an NGO, teaching English, stuff like that.
4. Those that simply fall in love with this country and it's people and see those things that the natives simply don't see.

"Cheaper Country" is a relative term now, and I believe such places only exist, in our imagination given the demands of modern living and how we all now measure either success towards the pursuit of happiness. India is rich in culture, aspiration, knowledge and goodwill to strangers, but it does suffer massively from economic inequality and it still never fails to shock me. I've lost count of the many occasions that I've seen young children, (not at school) on the streets, begging without shoes near the traffic lights and at those same set of lights is a young guy, (20's-30's) driving an Aston Martin, Porsche etc (and that young driver paid close to double in retail value for the car, due to the import duties/luxury taxes etc!). Truth is the this gap is ever widening, around the world and ironically, it even happens in my city, London too, although it's normally, less overt.

It's those things we own, that end up owning us, no matter what country we live in, I suppose.

My two cents, for what it's worth anyway...

Capo Dei Capi said:

I thought it was something like 183 days/year or 6 months plus 1 day.

Click to expand...

Yeah its exactly 183 days per year, I just approx. it to 6 months to give people a clearer idea of how much time they have to spend there.

Hello all,

Here is my experience.
I'm French (yep nobody can be perfect.), always worked internationally as a consultant (yep, the guy who is talking and acting, but basically doing nothing and it's impossible to evaluate his work), worked over 55 hours/week.
As soon as my income from IM was solid (2 years ago), I quit my job and went to a nice eastern Europe country. All the costs are not so bad, not the cheapest ones but still good. You can live really well with 2k$ per month.
I never felt insecure, even the opposite. In France I felt insecure, here never. I speak a bit the local language (and a bit lesser the slang), perhaps it helps.
From the cultural point of view, yes sometimes it can appear to be strange, but not so much.

But you really have to take into consideration:
1) All the medical stuff: Yeah you can go to hospital / visit doctors, they are all pretty good, more or less... If you know the people. But if you want to be really sure that they understand you, you have to go to private clinics/doctors, there you can live the dream: top notch doctors who speak English fluently, top notch material, etc. Even better than in a lot of "Western countries" I visited. But guys, prepare yourself to pay a lot, like A LOT. As an example: 30 min appointment + simple blood test = $300.

2) Your retirement plan: Even if you set up a local company, you'll never see the money. Here politics are saying to people in their 50's: "you'll never see the money of your retirement plan, create a savings account on your own.", so you should take that into consideration.

3) The "after IM", yep, nowadays, nothing last, it could be a great idea to keep a backup or to create a good fairy tale to put in your resume if your IM business collapsed. But we're on a blackhat forum, I'm sure that you could find a way to put "VP of sales" on your resume.

4) If you come alone and you find a girl and have the idea to have children with her, be really sure she is the good one, I've two friends here who had a real nightmare experience: Imagine fighting for your kids in a foreign country in which you don't understand the language and/or the law system and/or the corruption system.

If I had to do it again, I would do it, but... In a warmer country, winters are really winters here. From this point of view Costa Rica seems to me very welcoming.

THUNDERELVI said:

Yes, you can, read my post above about PR if you are an American by nationality.

Click to expand...

Yes, but we were talking about doing everything remotely to legally evade taxes for US citizens, living in US. As you said, to take advantage of the PR tax laws, you have to establish legal residency in PR for EACH TAX YEAR, as in you have to legally live in PR more than 50% of the time.

THUNDERELVI said:

Please do not speak crap without knowing all the facts, everything I am mentioning here comes from reality and lawyers in real-life (New York City if you are wondering), not some fictional knowledge gained by searching Google.

Click to expand...

I have bank accounts and legal entities in 5 countries outside US and my brother is an attorney who deals with immigration and international investments. I would bet I have a lot more experience in this stuff than you.

THUNDERELVI said:

The fact is and remains (and will remain for a long time in the future) that, if you own an Internet-related/based business or any business whose services can be entirely performed remotely (not within US borders), then that business's corporate earnings are NOT taxed in the US. Dividends are indeed taxed on American nationals despite where the company is located, but due to PR's special status with the US, you can get all dividends out of the company tax-free as long as you become a bona fide resident there, which isn't that bad if you're gonna save 6 figures in taxes.

Click to expand...

Again, this is moot if you're not willing to establish legal residency in PR at least 183 days a year.

This is straight from the IRS publication 570 dealing with this.

"Marcos Reyes, a U.S. citizen, moved to Puerto Rico in 2015 to start an investment consulting and venture capital business. His spouse and two teenage children remained in California to allow the children to complete high school. He traveled back to the United States regularly to see his spouse and children, to engage in business activities, and to take vacations. Marcos had an apartment available for his full-time use in Puerto Rico, but remained a joint owner of the residence in California where his spouse and children lived. Marcos and his family had automobiles and personal belongings such as furniture, clothing, and jewelry located at both residences. Although Marcos was a member of the Puerto Rico Chamber of Commerce, he also belonged to and had current relationships with social, political, cultural, and religious organizations in California. Marcos received mail in California, including bank and brokerage statements and credit card bills. He conducted his personal banking activities in California. He held a California driver's license and was also registered to vote there. Based on all of the particular facts and circumstances pertaining to Marcos, he was not a bona fide resident of Puerto Rico in 2015 because he had a closer connection to the United States than to Puerto Rico."

You can keep money in PR/USVI and move there every so many years to bring the money to yourself.