Let's Agree "Scam" and "Made a bad purchase" are 2 different things...

Lots of complaints in sales threads and even SL's about SEO services...

Some examples:

"Got scammed...didn't rank" (for "make money online" "weight loss" or some other ridiculous term)

"But it says white hat" (if you are buying links - it is not white hat - ever)

"I got a penalty" (you bought links, right? part of the risk)

It blows my mind that:

#1) People expect amazing SEO results for a couple hundred dollars
#2) When they don't rank they claim "scam"
#3) They can't hold themselves responsible for making a bad decision

I seriously think complaints and SL threads that are just "bad purchase" mistakes should not be spun around and placed on the shoulder of the provider.

Sure, there are several sales threads that are pure shit - and claim to be panda, penguin, and every other animal proof...but come on...let's get real.

I think BHW should not approve services that make this claim. Nobody can make SEO guarantees - so why is the forum allowing them to be made? It is silly.

Also, I think buyers need to be smarter and own up to bad mistakes. It is part of business. But to say "Oh I didn't rank - I want my money back" after spending a couple hundred is ridiculous. It happens a lot.

I would bet if it was made perfectly clear that buyers are responsible for their own decisions (like everywhere else in the real world) it would attract better quality services.

Anyone notice there has been a lack of quality? Mostly crap.

Nobody serious wants to deal with someone that is going to buy their service then cry when they don't rank (maybe because their onsite sucks?) or tanks (maybe because they are also buying other links) - there are so many variables.

Maybe...

#1) Tighten up the approval process - no more guarantees and that fluffy bs in sales threads
#2) Stop bitching unless the provider doesn't provide the service

/rant

If you advertise a Audi r8 and deliver a4, people will complain. and they're bound to complain.

How about all sales threads remove 100% of the "spiel", and just contain spreadsheets of what you get for your money.

Then it is completely on the due diligence of the buyer, therefore no reason to complain unless service isn't provided as seen.

Kind of annoys me when I have to sift through graphics to get to the core of the service, prefer the simple text threads that spell it out with no bs.

My two cents.

FPS

If you advertise a Audi r8 and deliver a4, people will complain.

Click to expand...

nobody is selling cars in BSTs

FutureProofSeo said:

How about all sales threads remove 100% of the "spiel", and just contain spreadsheets of what you get for your money.

Then it is completely on the due diligence of the buyer, therefore no reason to complain unless service isn't provided as seen.

Kind of annoys me when I have to sift through graphics to get to the core of the service, prefer the simple text threads that spell it out with no bs.

My two cents.

FPS

Click to expand...

That is part of advertising and I get that - but honestly if someone falls for "super hero" graphics and fails to see what they are actually buying then I don't feel bad for them. Use super heroes, porn stars....whatever....but eliminate the guarantee crap. Less fluff.

Well said netmoney1. People have to understand all the variables when it comes to ranking even with churn and burn style marketing. Quality content, on page seo, regular updates, internal links, keyword density, plus much more and we have not even started building links.

People have to wise up! This is not the WF, people will not share their private networks, social tricks, cloaking with you until they have pushed them fully already! You can not ask for a refund if your site tanks only if the work is not completed as advertised.

netmoney1 said:

That is part of advertising and I get that - but honestly if someone falls for "super hero" graphics and fails to see what they are actually buying then I don't feel bad for them. Use super heroes, porn stars....whatever....but eliminate the guarantee crap. Less fluff.

Click to expand...

I agree and the solution is quite simple IMO.
If the seller is actually guaranteeing something he has to be very specific what exactly the guarantee covers and on what conditions (Not shit like 'GUARANTEED SKY HIGH RANKINGS'). And if they can't keep their promise then money back (or w/e they promised to do if they can't fulfill it).

netmoney1 said:

"Got scammed...didn't rank" (for "make money online" "weight loss" or some other ridiculous term)

"But it says white hat" (if you are buying links - it is not white hat - ever)

"I got a penalty" (you bought links, right? part of the risk)

Click to expand...

Same goes for that part. Don't allow sellers to use phrases like '100% white hat links' if they obviously aren't.

IMO the Marketplace threads look like any other cheap clickbank landing page promoting shit they can't keep using images and phrases noone wants to see or read. I get that we're IMers and it's all about promoting your business and your product. But then again - we're IMers. Why the fuck do we have to keep inflating our products and keep treating each other like we're selling to a regular visitor on one of our money sites.

I'd prefer much cleaner and simpler BST threads with stricter rules.

there is no thing as 100% guaranteed
best a seller can do is state maybe they provide high quality service with
good rankings. seller should also look at the product he will be ranking and
state b4 payments are taken what the likely hood for movement could/might be
and if buyer isnt 100% happy refund or partial refunded dependant on the rank gains..
those who hide behind sales thread spiel no they cant get page 1 guaranteed.

netmoney1 said:

"But it says white hat" (if you are buying links - it is not white hat - ever)

Click to expand...

I have always been telling this my clients. Though Gman is always hated here. He always tell, buying links or exchanging links is not white hat and many don't understand that and mentione "Bla bla bla whitehat SEO service".

Thanks NM, hope this would open some people's eyes in all the aspects you have mentioned here.

truepals_forever said:

If you advertise a Audi r8 and deliver a4, people will complain. and they're bound to complain.

Click to expand...

I dont think this example even relates to what the OP says, anyone looking to buy an Audi R8 will go to the showroom unless and until they are going to buy it online which im sure very few people do for such kinda cars......anyone who goes to buy an R8 and comes back with an A4 is a dumbo for sure...

I think we're on to something here... There are a lot of ideas that should be implemented as far as I'm concerned.. I do agree that looking at each selling thread is just liked getting a glympse inside warrior forum... so much hype, and we are mostly intelligente guys who skip through all of it, but there are newbies here who get rolled in that BS and those are the ones that end up complaining most of the times.

Correctamundo.

If someone makes a guarantee then they need to stick with it.
You can't put 100% guaranteed on a sales thread and then turn round and say
but nothing is guaranteed in SEO.
That is fraud and shit list worthy.
However if they say "we provide these links and they have been known to".
That is totally acceptable and at the discretion of the purchaser.
I think there needs to be a clean up of BSTs and tighter rules on what the sales copy can contain.

But then again, Naaaah, leave it as it is. I get plenty of work cleaning up the mess that some of
these clowns make of other peoples sites.

well a lot of stuff relates to the expectation of the buyer. How can you rank for your prime money keywords with a $47 service? But again if you don't advertise you don't make sales.

truepals_forever said:

If you advertise a Audi r8 and deliver a4, people will complain. and they're bound to complain.

Click to expand...

That's what the OP is telling, "Let's Agree "Scam" and "Made a bad purchase" are 2 different things..."

"Got scammed...didn't rank" (for "make money online" "weight loss" or some other ridiculous term)

Giving an A4 for an R8's price is scamming and giving an R8 for the R8's price with some freebies as well and the driver crashes it on the way home taking the delivery of the car and telling that he ws given an A4 braking system on an powerful R8.

abhi007 said:

I dont think this example even relates to what the OP says, anyone looking to buy an Audi R8 will go to the showroom unless and until they are going to buy it online which im sure very few people do for such kinda cars......anyone who goes to buy an R8 and comes back with an A4 is a dumbo for sure...

Click to expand...

To add to that, that dumbo will not even come to know that he paid for an R8 and got an A4, unless he looks the bumb of the car.

It is what happens when every turdy kid with a laptop thinks he is an internet marketing guru genius because he has a domain name.

When i was new , i paid a seo expert $30 and asked him to rank my blogspot #1 for "fat loss" .
it happens with most of n00bs.

And if someone can prevent that then +1 from me.
-=-

I think BHW should not approve services that make this claim. Nobody can make guarantees - so why is the forum allowing them to be made? It is silly.

EXACTLY

These BST's are designed to suck money out of the newbies. These emtpy and fake promises of 100% guaranteed rankings, {insert animal name} safe.. If you put them in the sales thread then stick to your words. If you can't keep up with the promises, then i see no reason for not shitlisting that specific seller.

The approval system should be revamped to make sure such BS BST's with fake promises don't see the light of the day.

Excellent post, netmoney. For the automated stuff a provider has very little control as to what a client is trying to rank for and is not in the business of consultation generally so it falls on the buyer and not the seller.

For the hands on stuff, a provider should be telling clients, "No, I'm sorry but our service can't help you." and pass on some business for a variety of reasons.