Internet Marketing and Morality
- Thread starter shailzrocks
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GiorgioB
Supreme Member
- Feb 28, 2012
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hmm a lot of soul searching in this thread..
Truth is I think we all should do whatever we are comfortable with. If you sell payday loans and can look at yourself in the mirror at night and see a successful IMer, and sleep good at night, then do it. As people have said, 1) when you sign a paper/contract, you agree to the terms and conditions and 2) if you don't sell it, someone else will.
After, if you are feeling like a scumbag everyday because of doing this, then stop for sure.. there are plenty of niches, and I always say you should love your work and respect yourself first if you want to earn respect from those around you.
Truth is I think we all should do whatever we are comfortable with. If you sell payday loans and can look at yourself in the mirror at night and see a successful IMer, and sleep good at night, then do it. As people have said, 1) when you sign a paper/contract, you agree to the terms and conditions and 2) if you don't sell it, someone else will.
After, if you are feeling like a scumbag everyday because of doing this, then stop for sure.. there are plenty of niches, and I always say you should love your work and respect yourself first if you want to earn respect from those around you.
jazzc
Elite Member
- Jan 27, 2009
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You mean to tell me that your morality depends on a dictionary entry and when that 's not enough, random people?
Yes he is. He is being paid to sell - he may be only the little end of the selling process (just they guy that wraps it and gives you a receipt) but his is part of it.
Suppose they were selling heroin on that shop. Would he be breaking the law as an employee who knowingly facilitates the exchange? Of course. Now substitute heroin with a mis-advertised product and the law with morality (in your sense)
Yes, I don't want to get into that or I see the ban hammer coming to both of us
- just mentioned it for completeness.Personally, I just like debating, and it appears that you do too
It 's fun, isn't it?
azguru
Elite Member
- Jan 5, 2012
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You mean to tell me that your morality depends on a dictionary entry and when that 's not enough, random people?
As you've noted in your previous statement, semantics do play a role in this argument
And, this whole debate is about random people. You will notice in my previous post that I differentiated between sellers and marketers.
Suppose they were selling heroin on that shop. Would he be breaking the law as an employee who knowingly facilitates the exchange? Of course. Now substitute heroin with a mis-advertised product and the law with morality (in your sense)
That was a great analogy
However, I think heroin is too extreme of an example, because it is illegal and everyone knows that. In regards to your analogy, a gas station clerk can clearly define "heroin" but can't necessarily define a "mis-advertised product."
The legality of heroin is easy to define. A mis-advertised product is not as easy to define, or even recognize for that matter.
My main point of this all is that "selling" is passive. A buyer browses the store, chooses products, and a clerk rings them up
"Marketing" is active, meaning that someone goes out of their way to convince you to try a product.
If I tell you to go see "x" Movie because it is the greatest thing I have ever seen and it will change your life, I am marketing that product to you.
So, let's say you go to see the movie, and it sucks. Are you going to be mad at me, or the minimum wage employee who sold you the ticket?
It is likely that you will be pissed at me. (within the point I am trying to make. I know you would go home and do your research first lol
)It 's fun, isn't it?
Yes, however, we should probably end this before it gets out of control. Any last words?
jazzc
Elite Member
- Jan 27, 2009
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Any last words?
"We are in luck! The dragon is sleeping" (it 's a Dungeons and Dragons joke
)
Jonny Quick
BANNED
- Aug 26, 2010
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I think it's more like Sinclair Lewis. First America was nauseated to discover that they were eating sick and diseased cattle, and then they decided to legally force force meat packing plants into stop selling diseased meat products.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radium_Girls
So what keeps companies from allowing workers to be exposed to radioactive materials? Sure, eventually the watch brand will be publicly known as the "company that allows their workers to die of cancer" and people might stop buying their products. But that hasn't stopped Wal-Mart from purchasing products made by chinese slave labor. Hasn't hurt Apple's sales either.
Both of these companies self-regulate only because the threat of government regulation exists. Remove that, and all manner of horror becomes commonplace.
I also think it's like the end of slavery in the United States, where instead of waiting for the Industrial Revolution to make the practice less economically advantageous, instead it took tens of thousands of Union soldiers to force the the south to 1) Remain a part of the United States 2) End the practice of slavery or 3) Be killed.
evilclown
Senior Member
- Jul 31, 2012
- 875
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So we should close all strip clubs, ban alcohol, ban tobacco, casinos, gambling, and all this things. They are the best example of immoral.
How it could be immoral if people don't have the control over their financials? They are going to spend the money on something else why not take before it reaches retail stores?
How it could be immoral if people don't have the control over their financials? They are going to spend the money on something else why not take before it reaches retail stores?
ShadeDream
BANNED
- Nov 27, 2008
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tjtigers14
Regular Member
- Feb 7, 2012
- 200
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Was just in the middle of reading this posts that just rips all IM gurus a new one...
http://www.theverge.com/2012/5/10/2...h-quick-schemes-mutate-into-an-online-monster
http://www.theverge.com/2012/5/10/2...h-quick-schemes-mutate-into-an-online-monster
ShadeDream
BANNED
- Nov 27, 2008
- 2,296
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I guess this guy needs some reviews written in regards to the book he is trying to sell based on his "scam" article.
Code:
http://www.amazon.com/Scamworld-mutates-unstoppable-monster-ebook/dp/B0081V1F4A/
unclemike
BANNED
- Nov 6, 2012
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One thing I am sick and tired of is the "Nanny State" mentality. Since everyone appears to be to stupid to eat
we should regulate and powder their butts to make sure life is well for everyone and it is killing the freedom to even live.
The only reason the big banks are helping the "Extra Friendly" government to stop this small loans is because it is cutting into
the big banks. You did not see these so called "Fist of goodness" companies and government caring when they purposely
lent money people that could not afford to pay back..
Just because someone is not smart enough to use "+" and "-" on a calculator should not lead to a massive regulation on life.
Its just like the old...
"I hate McDonalds its making people fat!"
LOL quit eating their...Guess what? They will go bankrupt in a week and you will be 10 pounds lighter
Yeah sure I eat McDonalds and yes I am some fat...But if I got my sorry greedy ass off of the PC and went for a walk and
ate vegetables I would not be fat...And I do not expect someone to force others for my lack of responsibility.
Yes! I feel sorry for people who take out small loans. Most of the time it comes from desperation. But you would not believe
how many of those same people eat Big Macs everyday and have more HBO Channels than I do.
Lets do some simple math...To lazy to cook eh?
Average fast food meal = 7.00
Average person might do this everyday (Seen it dozens of times)
7.00 X 7 = $49
$49.00 X 4 weeks = $196
Plenty of money for a small economy car payment. And many other things to.
Anyway that's enough from me I have to get back to counting money and smoking cigars...
Cheers,
Unclemike
we should regulate and powder their butts to make sure life is well for everyone and it is killing the freedom to even live.
The only reason the big banks are helping the "Extra Friendly" government to stop this small loans is because it is cutting into
the big banks. You did not see these so called "Fist of goodness" companies and government caring when they purposely
lent money people that could not afford to pay back..
Just because someone is not smart enough to use "+" and "-" on a calculator should not lead to a massive regulation on life.
Its just like the old...
"I hate McDonalds its making people fat!"
LOL quit eating their...Guess what? They will go bankrupt in a week and you will be 10 pounds lighter
Yeah sure I eat McDonalds and yes I am some fat...But if I got my sorry greedy ass off of the PC and went for a walk and
ate vegetables I would not be fat...And I do not expect someone to force others for my lack of responsibility.
Yes! I feel sorry for people who take out small loans. Most of the time it comes from desperation. But you would not believe
how many of those same people eat Big Macs everyday and have more HBO Channels than I do.
Lets do some simple math...To lazy to cook eh?
Average fast food meal = 7.00
Average person might do this everyday (Seen it dozens of times)
7.00 X 7 = $49
$49.00 X 4 weeks = $196
Plenty of money for a small economy car payment. And many other things to.
Anyway that's enough from me I have to get back to counting money and smoking cigars...
Cheers,
Unclemike
I agree that everyone should use their own moral compass when making decisions about what they'll promote. Those through the roof interest rates are horrible so I wouldn't promote them either.
At the same time I happen to believe in personal freedom. Yours to decide what you will and won't do as well as the customer who thinks that it's the best way for them to get by at the time. Yes, that does sometimes become sort of a survival of the fittest thing in that most people just don't think things through and end up hurting themselves. Luckily they do get the option of learning from their mistakes which is just part of life. I've made plenty and they've made me stronger in the long run.
I'm sure you know as well that for a satisfied customer will maybe tell one person while a dissatisfied customer will tell everyone. So probably there are some who've used these types of services knowing what they were getting into but needing that little bit right even now more than they'd need twice as much later.
Like maybe their child was sick and they had to pay for medicine right away or something like that. Maybe he gets paid only once a month so there's another 2 weeks before he can get her well without the option. I wouldn't want someone in that situation to not have that option just because I personally don't like the business so I helped government get rid of them.
Interest rates could be regulated too but that just means it's available to less people because those companies know a certain percentage won't pay so they charge what they have to in order to make up for it. So as much as I dislike those types of loans personally I'd prefer if the guy with the sick child had the choice.
For the moron that uses one of those loans to get a flat screen TV instead of waiting another week I find it difficult to feel sorry for them. I'm sure the TV guy will be the one screaming the loudest next week though.
jazzc
Elite Member
- Jan 27, 2009
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Certainly not the governement, which you seem to be implying.
That does. Plus the billion dollar worth of law suits if they workers were not consenting to be exposed in the first place.
What you call slave labor actually prevents all those people from dying in horrible ways. Let 's see you create jobs and pay big raises instead of accusing those who actually pay that they don't meet your arbitrary standards.
Regulate? You mean intervene.
So, what are the unspeakable horrors that have become commonplace on the internet seo marketplace?
It always amazes me how little history some US citizens know about their own country.
jazzc
Elite Member
- Jan 27, 2009
- 2,964
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I must admit this is the first time I hear this argument
This looks like a spin-off from the Protestant ethic of the calling, where you can only get close to God via work, work, work Wealth does not get created out of thin air. If I work and leave wealth to my kids, they can "not work" because I did. And that perfectly fine. Following your argument means you are against savings, since there 's no meaning to them if you can't consume them at the future. And people with no savings are fast on their road to serfdom.
There is no other road unless you remove personal freedom. If I am free to do as I please with my body, I can trade. Trading efficiency means the creation of money.
And freedom is the fastest technological advancement factor. Remember the Industrial revolution?
Too much hype with Tesla, wouldn't you agree? I think there are so so so many people today who would publish for the world their free energy discoveries etc. Well, we don't have free-energy yet, do we? So, it either means no person has been as smart as Tesla, or a ton load of hype.
Money is a medium of exchange. I do not work for money. I work for the things I can buy with money.
No it doesn't.
No it isn't. How on earth is a 100-dollar note responsible for the depleting reserves of oil underground?
Politics is heavily integrated with money, since politicians own the government and government has monopoly on money. So, it 's only natural that arguments will involve politics in the end.
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LakeForest
Supreme Member
- Nov 11, 2009
- 1,268
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I don't think a business can be founded, compete, and survive within an industry unless it is aggressive. No business is clean. Everyone is screwing over and getting screwed over by everyone. Only way I see this changing is when people are willing to, essentially, give up on living outside of their means at any level.
Industry is kinda like nation building, you know? Magnificent cities today started from little collections of huts in smart locations populated by people who were very good at taking things from their neighbors by force, who were good at tricking their neighbors into worshiping their myths, and who were smart enough to introduce their own ways of thinking into the surrounding region. Very little of this is done through lucid and thoughtful consent, and as such is business, where salesmen continuously try to convince people that this new product will cure their ailment...just like a tribal witchdoctor.
All industry is unnatural. It's a machine we try to turn into a perpetual-motion device that runs off extra energy it creates (profit) that offsets its entropy (cost). A successful business is essentially something that exists outside of the laws of physics; it almost creates laws.
With the case being that:
1. Business is like nation building, where you succeed at the cost of others until, like in governance, the only way to create lasting peace is to find empty livable area to expand into. When you deal with a market or positions in SERP, it's a zero-sum game, like the current availability of usable land. This leads to businesses that act like vikings, which create people who respond like beggars.
and
2. Businesses are unnatural. Performing skilled labor or service to survive and thrive is one thing, bur developing a self-sustaining multi-generational entity that creates energy (money) where there was none before, is another matter altogether. Because they are unnatural, they rely on unconventional means for success. In our course of life, we keep trying to elevating our thoughts and actions, but in business, we see that great success comes from reversing this process and instead of elevating our higher faculties, we bring greater consciousness to our lower ones. Sex appeal sells, desperation sells, get-rich-quick dreams for greedy people sells.
Through all this, at some point, humanity is lost. When we realize that to keep ourselves warm, we must burn something, we understand that there is no way to get away from this. There is nothing you can enter into to do that is not going to create harm, or the illusion thereof, such as the teacher who thinks he will never be able to help the situation of his students, which will create a very real harm in you.
How does one then deal with this? Personal choice. Treating others the way you want to be treated. Trying not to waste energy. Apart from this, what control do we really have? We must cut down the proper tree to burn so we can stay warm. Nothing is really lost in the process, except our belief that we are able to escape the pain of learning what reality in this world is like.
I don't know...try to take comfort in the fact that there is nothing you can do that doesn't have the potential to screw things up worse than if you had not. So have courage, do what you think is right in the name of heaven and consciousness, and then justify it when called upon.
Industry is kinda like nation building, you know? Magnificent cities today started from little collections of huts in smart locations populated by people who were very good at taking things from their neighbors by force, who were good at tricking their neighbors into worshiping their myths, and who were smart enough to introduce their own ways of thinking into the surrounding region. Very little of this is done through lucid and thoughtful consent, and as such is business, where salesmen continuously try to convince people that this new product will cure their ailment...just like a tribal witchdoctor.
All industry is unnatural. It's a machine we try to turn into a perpetual-motion device that runs off extra energy it creates (profit) that offsets its entropy (cost). A successful business is essentially something that exists outside of the laws of physics; it almost creates laws.
With the case being that:
1. Business is like nation building, where you succeed at the cost of others until, like in governance, the only way to create lasting peace is to find empty livable area to expand into. When you deal with a market or positions in SERP, it's a zero-sum game, like the current availability of usable land. This leads to businesses that act like vikings, which create people who respond like beggars.
and
2. Businesses are unnatural. Performing skilled labor or service to survive and thrive is one thing, bur developing a self-sustaining multi-generational entity that creates energy (money) where there was none before, is another matter altogether. Because they are unnatural, they rely on unconventional means for success. In our course of life, we keep trying to elevating our thoughts and actions, but in business, we see that great success comes from reversing this process and instead of elevating our higher faculties, we bring greater consciousness to our lower ones. Sex appeal sells, desperation sells, get-rich-quick dreams for greedy people sells.
Through all this, at some point, humanity is lost. When we realize that to keep ourselves warm, we must burn something, we understand that there is no way to get away from this. There is nothing you can enter into to do that is not going to create harm, or the illusion thereof, such as the teacher who thinks he will never be able to help the situation of his students, which will create a very real harm in you.
How does one then deal with this? Personal choice. Treating others the way you want to be treated. Trying not to waste energy. Apart from this, what control do we really have? We must cut down the proper tree to burn so we can stay warm. Nothing is really lost in the process, except our belief that we are able to escape the pain of learning what reality in this world is like.
I don't know...try to take comfort in the fact that there is nothing you can do that doesn't have the potential to screw things up worse than if you had not. So have courage, do what you think is right in the name of heaven and consciousness, and then justify it when called upon.
ShadeDream
BANNED
- Nov 27, 2008
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Sorry but I'm not even going to bother answering any of the above. It's a waste of time to be honest, and semantics play a huge role in effective communication.
With such a debate and no real understanding from both parties you can only go as far without having to write out every single detail about every single factor involved.
In the current debate everyone will keep contradicting each other. Certain understandings are concluded based on various experiences, such that open your mind to a wider perspective.
Edit:
I can't help but reply to at least one of your replies.
Yes it does. Patents hinder technology. Patents = money. That's just one example.
With such a debate and no real understanding from both parties you can only go as far without having to write out every single detail about every single factor involved.
In the current debate everyone will keep contradicting each other. Certain understandings are concluded based on various experiences, such that open your mind to a wider perspective.
Edit:
I can't help but reply to at least one of your replies.
Yes it does. Patents hinder technology. Patents = money. That's just one example.
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Bloghat
Regular Member
- Feb 18, 2011
- 247
- 123
I grabbed it for reference (you weren't the only one with this opinion).
Just wanted to point out, that successful internet marketers know all about conversion rates, hot spots, social proof, reciprocity and more ways to take influence on a persons decisions... and in the next sentence declare how free everybody is to make mistakes?
I assume that every guy with some kind of success in here has read 'influence' by Cialdini. How could we think sheeple are fully responsible for getting trapped in the stuff experienced marketers deploy out there to hunt for them?
People like Gary Halbert were able to totally hook you with they're salescopy.
One major mistake is to think of the rest of the world as equally gifted and bright as yourself and the people you know. That is just not the case. You surround yourself with friends that you can talk to. That dramatically decreases your friend-options.
There's a whole world of people outthere that doesn't understand the VCR and even the simplest concepts of how the internet works.
How can we think they make decisions that are good?
They don't even have the knowledge to see a bad decision. All's fine what they're doing.
jazzc
Elite Member
- Jan 27, 2009
- 2,964
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Patents exist because of the government, if you haven't noticed and not of the monetary system
Break a patent -> go to state jail.No worries, my posts are written for the so-called "residual" and not for your answers
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