how UK rich guy survive?
- Thread starter amzzoo
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justbrowsing1
Junior Member
- Sep 20, 2016
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tax rate on coorperation tax/dividends is almost the same as PAYE tax.
You can't just buy a house with your company and live in it lol. You'd have to pay rent to your company. You'd also pay a higher rate of stamp duty when buying it and would have to pay a higher rate of interest on the loan.
jazzc
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- Jan 27, 2009
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This is my bad, I didn't realize that the Guardian's numbers included the tax for ss & pension. So let's add them and recalculate! Let's assume for simplicity that US Jane wants to buy-in a 401k (since it's not mandatory but UK Mary's is).
52k * 0.77 = $40k for Jane, still $33k for Mary. That's α 13% difference, which sums up over the course of the work-life (let's assume 35 years and no inflation/constant income) to $245k. Do you think Mary would find something nice to buy for her kids with an extra $245k? I kinda think she wouldn't mind.
- Jan 22, 2008
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Your mistake jazzc is that you calculate it very simple. You don't include how complicated is EU taxation, with many holes, bonuses, benefits, cashbacks, including to cost, different % VAT depends to product.
Also you not include what people gets for all these taxes. Europe is building new super-country, it demands taxes, especialy we want to have well integrated communities, green, clean air, good infrastructure and high tech.
Also - how it's calculated "purchase power"? By buying abroad, imported american products? That's how it works, when Americans are leaders
UK have many own, cheap products.Also roads, we laugh that USA have roads without curves and we have proofs! We invited 3000 american soldier to train here with us. What happened? They crashed arround 50 own vehicles!
What's wrong with this truck? How he done it on straight road? With curves is even worse. We have jokes about american soldiers and "penal company"
- Nov 3, 2017
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Yep, their college, or actually college for 1 kid. Which Jane wont have to pay for. Now you can go and calculate what are the odds of having chronic illness and/or any other major medical issue for 35 years, and what would the co-pays out of the pocket Mary have to pay. Then calculate what are the odds Mary to lose her job over said illness.
IamNRE
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- Aug 18, 2010
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Like I said, you need to speak with lawyers and experts - they'll tell you what you need to do to lower your tax obligations - there are a lot of ways you can write off things.
Even if you do have to pay rent - is there a rule that says you have to pay $2000/month in rent, or could you pay (as the Landlord) set the rent at just $20/month
??
jazzc
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Loopholes are everywhere, not just in the EU. If we're going that route, I'd say it's much easier to optimize taxes in the US than in the EU, but that's for higher brackets, not worth the trouble for Jane and Mary. And of course, certainly nothing beats the
Historically it's had high taxes. So, it's just now that it's building infrastructure? Also, infrastructure spending is a small percentage of overall gov spending. For example, it's 2% of gdp for Germany (and 2.4% for US, i.e. more than Germany).
Also - how it's calculated "purchase power"? By buying abroad, imported american products? That's how it works, when Americans are leaders
Purchasing power = how much shit you can buy. And driving a Yugo isn't the same as driving a normal car
So, purchasing power is about the ability to buy the same stuff - same quality. Anything you import is slapped with Vat + customs. And in this age, most things get imported - either directly as consumer products or indirectly as capital goods (i.e. the stuff you need to have to produce the consumer product).
- Jan 22, 2008
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Thats true:
-free preschool
-free basics school
-free college
-free university
+ free medical healthcare for their kids
+ in Poland free dentist for kids, free books
I know this "free" means covered from taxes but I like we don't have to pay thousands of dollars for this and take some loans.
This is also the tip of the iceberg of benefits.
Why migrants from Africa is coming to Europe, not USA? Closer? Maybe but they are also ships to USA? Because humancare.
Loopholes are everywhere, not just in the EU. If we're going that route, I'd say it's much easier to optimize taxes in the US than in the EU, but that's for higher brackets, not worth the trouble for Jane and Mary. And of course, certainly nothing beats the
Historically it's had high taxes. So, it's just now that it's building infrastructure? Also, infrastructure spending is a small percentage of overall gov spending. For example, it's 2% of gdp for Germany (and 2.4% for US, i.e. more than Germany).
Purchasing power = how much shit you can buy. And driving a Yugo isn't the same as driving a normal car
Maybe UK and Germany have high taxes, don't forget, we have small taxes in EU as well and you can mediate, change tax residency as you want, open corporations:
Constant taxes (not changing)
Poland 19%
Estonia 21%
Czech 15%
Lituania 15%
Cyprus even 0% if you are smart
Malta like above
...and it's not like we have small purchasing power in these countries because you can make business in whole Europe without barries and pay taxes in your own country. Can you do that in USA? No? Even you move abroad, IRS will come after you to every shithole
The high % of taxes in UK it's caused by huge benefits system, we want to avoid this way in our development. Germany was always high taxed, here you have right.
jazzc
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That's a real fucking expensive college you're talking about
I can't really go and do that because I can't find the list of chronic illnesses and their yearly expenses. But since you seem to have confidence about it being in the lines of hundreds of thousands of dollars, let's see your numbers.
jazzc
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Unless you actually live there 6 months, it's illegal (it's complicated but that's the gist for most cases). Sure, it's really slim chance that someone will catch you (depending on which your home country is) but we're talking about legal things - illegally, the tax rate is really low
- Jan 22, 2008
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It's legal, yes 6 months is official but except UK. When you live in France and pay taxes in Estonia, who will prove? Nobody because we have full Schengen, you cross the border when you want without any notice.Unless you actually live there 6 months, it's illegal (it's complicated but that's the gist for most cases). Sure, it's really slim chance that someone will catch you (depending on which your home country is) but we're talking about legal things - illegally, the tax rate is really low
Also it's fully legal if you have LTD companies and pay normal income taxes. You don't need to stay abroad.
Europe is small, one day you are in Poland, 30 minutes later in Germany, to eat dinner in Italy
justbrowsing1
Junior Member
- Sep 20, 2016
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Like I said, you need to speak with lawyers and experts - they'll tell you what you need to do to lower your tax obligations - there are a lot of ways you can write off things.
Even if you do have to pay rent - is there a rule that says you have to pay $2000/month in rent, or could you pay (as the Landlord) set the rent at just $20/month
Will have to be a fair market price. Obviously you can do whatever you like until you get a tax inspection. Really aren't that many ways you can (legally) write off things in the UK.
- Jan 22, 2008
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But there is vehicle called Estonian LTD, what can be owner of flat/house/car in UK and write off everything fully legal
jazzc
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That's why I said it's a slim chance. But it's illegal, despite not being easily enforceable. FYI, if they really want to get you in court, they can get your tracking data from the cellphone company and you're screwed.
I don't remember the technical term atm but there's a thing about unless you have actual employees there who manage and direct the core of the company, your local tax agency can tax your company as if it was a local one. If they want to. So it is a matter of not getting caught.
- Nov 3, 2017
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That's a real fucking expensive college you're talking about
I can't really go and do that because I can't find the list of chronic illnesses and their yearly expenses. But since you seem to have confidence about it being in the lines of hundreds of thousands of dollars, let's see your numbers.
46% of the US adults suffer from high blood pressure. Source: https://newsroom.heart.org/news/adults-with-high-blood-pressure-face-higher-healthcare-costs
Add diabetes ( More than 100 million Americans have diabetes or prediabetes - source: https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2017/p0718-diabetes-report.html): "People with diagnosed diabetes, on average, have medical expenditures approximately 2.3 times higher than what expenditures would be in the absence of diabetes." -> People with diagnosed diabetes incur average medical expenditures of $16,752 per year, of which about $9,601is attributed to diabetes.
Should I continue? Want to know what premiums for insurance for people that have diabetes and/or high blood pressure? And that's just 2 illnesses. And don't let me even start about prescription drugs epidemy.
- Jan 22, 2008
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USA is nice only because their Sillicon Valley but also these companies are moving abroad because costs.
Sillicon Valley getting very, very expensive, even for millionaires.
We will see what is going to happen with american economy after Trump custom duties madness. Europe and Asia will alive economic war, is USA also?
justbrowsing1
Junior Member
- Sep 20, 2016
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But there is vehicle called Estonian LTD, what can be owner of flat/house/car in UK and write off everything fully legal
I doubt it, a director normally has to act within the best interests of the company, buying assets and charging no rent isn't benefiting the company.
jazzc
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People with diagnosed diabetes are ~7% of the US population. The average age of diagnosis of diabetes is 54. So that's 10 years before Medicare benefits kick in. Doesn't look that scary once you look at the numbers, eh?
- Jan 22, 2008
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You don't understand the idea of estonian companies - you pay only taxes after PERSONAL CONSUMPTION. So you can buy real estate, art, vine, gold and just keep it for future benfits. Also you can rent such flat to yourself as company office abroad or just brutaly tell it is company office
islandman1010
Elite Member
- May 10, 2008
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Are you saying a person in the USA only pays about $4000 in income tax in their pay packet at the end of the year if they earn $52,000?
For the UK stuff your numbers are wrong. If you make £40,000 here you pay £5630 in income tax. We also don't have medical bills or school bills to pay. There is no point in quoting figures using VAT either. Not every item here has VAT, it only applies to what are deemed luxury items. Most food and other things are not included.