1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

How sheepish do I feel?

Discussion in 'BlackHat Lounge' started by The_Cat_In_The_Hat, Feb 14, 2012.

  1. The_Cat_In_The_Hat

    The_Cat_In_The_Hat Registered Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2012
    Messages:
    73
    Likes Received:
    21
    Occupation:
    Copywriter/Content
    Location:
    Nowhere man!!!
    Hello you gang of rapscallions.

    I have only recently found this site and... well... I'm pretty taken aback to be honest.

    Feel's very much like the Black Hat's from Philip K. D***s novel "The Adjustment Bureau".

    Anyhow, I'm a short film director and I first go onto the shady world behind YT marketting when a guy entered a competition that I entered and I remember one day looking at his video, then the next day looking and he had 22,000 views overnight.

    When I approached him, he played it all down and said he posted it on his facebook, which immediately got my goat up, the video was seriously not that good at all, not to gurney 22,000 views overnight... the prize bellshiff.... I should have given him a swift crack.

    So now I am here, with my films and I am slowly realising that the youtube world, isn't as transparent and democratic as it either once was, or as it likes to show.

    So, I am left asking myself if it is worth it?

    When someone can make a fairly crud video and publicise it, using what I would say, shady methods.

    And then there are 'better' films and artists who are being cast aside because of the methods they use.

    Of course, I suppose it's all about the content, and if your content is as good as it can be then.. (you know the argument)...

    So, what do I do now? Do I carry on looking at online publishing with an off transparent sheem.

    Or do I join the ranks, work with IM's and try to ride the storm in a cast iron galleon?

    Yes, this post is set out fairly dyslexic, because... I am dyslexic and yeah... well, I eat my own snot.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2012
  2. BassTrackerBoats

    BassTrackerBoats Moderator Staff Member Moderator Jr. VIP

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2010
    Messages:
    12,782
    Likes Received:
    22,030
    Occupation:
    I don't actually have a job
    Location:
    It's an Algo, of course it can be gamed.
    Home Page:
    Or he bought views.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  3. Mrnewbie

    Mrnewbie Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2009
    Messages:
    493
    Likes Received:
    732
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    NY
    I guess to try to give you somewhat of a coherent answer, its up to you if you wish to use blackhat methods to boost your video or not. I don't look at it as cheating but that is my personal view and standpoint not based on any others. If your video is not that great, it would not matter if a billion people saw it the fact of the matter is the product(film) is the key not the method you used to get more people to watch it. At the end of the day you have to be comfortable with yourself and be able to look yourself in the mirror and if doing blackhat makes you feel uncomfortable then simply don't go against your personal values. BTW, I am a fellow dyslexic myself:eek:
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 2
  4. The_Cat_In_The_Hat

    The_Cat_In_The_Hat Registered Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2012
    Messages:
    73
    Likes Received:
    21
    Occupation:
    Copywriter/Content
    Location:
    Nowhere man!!!
    Well don't think I'm being quixotic here, I'm just fairly asking questions, of myself, the internet, the methods outlined here. So on and so forth.

    I do plan to look into how I can use online publishing to publish the work I do because breaking into filmmaking circles means a lot of mugging about (if you know what I mean, if you don't then I could equate it to writing articles for 0.50$ a day).

    I'm from Liverpool, UK and I see my city changing ever so rapidly. We once where a very socialist city; we where in fact (like many other cities in the UK), slightly shut off from mainstream capitalisation. (Most of Liverpool's major emplyers where either government owned or local businesses).

    So, my point being, is that within my city, there is a definite pecking order. And there is a sort of Pyramid scheme, (in effect), within the filmmaking community.

    So this is why I turn to online publishing, however, I can't help but feel that I am about 5 years behind the thread.

    Hmmm.... Must plan and plot, plan and plot. I think I'm going to have to draft up something and look at the J.V thread, see if there are any similar proposals to one I could possibly look at.

    Dyslexic will rule the world one day.
     
  5. hamish11

    hamish11 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2011
    Messages:
    285
    Likes Received:
    137
    Occupation:
    IT Project Manager
    Location:
    SoCal
    If your content is good, it will rise to the top using whitehat methods. Not saying using blackhat is bad. There are all kinds of independent success stories on YT that got there because their content was good and it took off virally. Look at Felicia Day with The Guild and what it has become and the doors it opened for her.
     
  6. The_Cat_In_The_Hat

    The_Cat_In_The_Hat Registered Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2012
    Messages:
    73
    Likes Received:
    21
    Occupation:
    Copywriter/Content
    Location:
    Nowhere man!!!
    Precisely.

    I never knew you could buy Youtube Views, I never knew about this shady world of Youtube Marketing, I must admit, call me out of the loop. But there you go.

    Just from his reaction, I knew there was something up, called it intellect, paranoia, call it whatever you want, but I knew at that moment that he had somehow done that, or got someone to do that for him.

    So, now I am in the strange world of... "What do I do as an independent filmmaker to stack the odds in my favour and cut out the 'middlemen' within my local city?".

    Do I attempt to make my vids viral?

    Do I bumpf out as many as I can?

    I'm quite lost to be honest...

    Now, I am not looking for any kind of freebie here, (like I see many people easily ask for, I myself do actually believe in the word 'hard work', as paradoxical as that may sound)...

    But, I am just asking, what would you do if you where in my position?
     
  7. The_Cat_In_The_Hat

    The_Cat_In_The_Hat Registered Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2012
    Messages:
    73
    Likes Received:
    21
    Occupation:
    Copywriter/Content
    Location:
    Nowhere man!!!
    True, very true indeed.
     
  8. minimo88

    minimo88 Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2009
    Messages:
    494
    Likes Received:
    131
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    I agree with this sentence "join the ranks, work with IM's and try to ride the storm in a cast iron galleon?" have no idea what you said but it sounded witty and descriptive so I was obliged to comment on it.

    I kid

    If you don't want to go into shady methods such as buying views, buy subs, likes etc you could produce genuine quality content and hope for someone to mention your channel. Completely white hat (ethical)

    Or you could (not saying you should) buy views and likes direct them to your vid. Then buy a load of dislikes direct them to your competitor. Black hat (unethical)

    Finally, you could go some where in between in these two extremes create quality content (which you can do) buy some views and likes and leave it at that. Grey hat

    It is your choice.


    Ps what kind of short films do you make?
     
  9. The_Cat_In_The_Hat

    The_Cat_In_The_Hat Registered Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2012
    Messages:
    73
    Likes Received:
    21
    Occupation:
    Copywriter/Content
    Location:
    Nowhere man!!!
    I've been a theatre director for a number of years, (I'm 32). Toured around the UK a bit, been to Ireland fringe and Ediburgh fringe.

    But I grew tired of the lack of sustainable support within the theatre world; plus, there just isn't the audience in Theatre like there used to be. I do believe in moving with the times and whilst I have made quite a few films (back in the day) using old VHS's to edit and using an old battered JVC camcorder. I have only in the past 6 months decided to go full throttle and look towards creating online content.

    However my problem is that, I am a staunch political artist, I believe in politics and I am very... "Radical", so I was always going against the grain. A quality that doesn't go down well with establishments, and here in Britain, as we all know, we love our bureaucratic establishments.

    So to answer your question in short, I work with some underhand dark comedy, as well as some political sattire. I also like working with crime, human greed and thrillers.

    I film predominantly in Black and White and I write most of my own stuff, I work with a small company of actors and... yes, we are gaining some good feedback from our films. (we've only released 5 'videos' on youtube).
     
  10. J1218

    J1218 Power Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2010
    Messages:
    675
    Likes Received:
    401
    Personally, I don't feel that buying YT views is unethical or shady at all. There are way worse things you could be doing. I look at it the same as buying a bunch of links for SEO purposes, but instead you're buying views to make your video increase in popularity.

    Views are rather cheap too so it's not like you will be spending a ton on it.

    It sounds like you need something to give yourself an edge, so go for it.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  11. The_Cat_In_The_Hat

    The_Cat_In_The_Hat Registered Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2012
    Messages:
    73
    Likes Received:
    21
    Occupation:
    Copywriter/Content
    Location:
    Nowhere man!!!
    Well J1218, it just feels like the old analogy, "It's better to be pissing on the tent, than inside the tent being pissed on."

    I don't know mate, confused like, whether it's ethical or not, would be interested to see what would happen if tomorrow the ability to harvest views was stopped. To see who the movers and shakers where.

    I mean, one perfect example is FreddieW on youtube. Whilst some of his videos are truly great, a good portion are, fair. A lot of his techniques are dropped straight from some veritable video forums and yet he got really big, really quick.

    I'm not even going to start with some of the "Top", Vbloggers.
     
  12. roamer

    roamer Power Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2008
    Messages:
    500
    Likes Received:
    479
    Occupation:
    Gfx designer, vfx and mgfx
    Location:
    plɹoʍ ǝɥʇ punoɹɐ ƃuıɯɐoɹ
    The most important ingredient for success (internet wise) is great content - broadly (and White-Hatly) speaking. If yours is really great, then you'd simply need to ask your friends to promote it (as in, put it out there). All they need to do is share it with their FB friends, bookmark it (ie stumbleupon), etc. If your content is great, but no one can see it, then it doesn't exist.
     
  13. Roparadise

    Roparadise BANNED BANNED

    Joined:
    May 25, 2011
    Messages:
    786
    Likes Received:
    1,417
    It doesn't matter how good the content you make,but how well you market the content you make.

    There is nothing unethical about buying youtube videos btw.
     
  14. albaniax

    albaniax Elite Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2008
    Messages:
    1,586
    Likes Received:
    823
    Location:
    GER - ALB
    This my friend, is the power of "subscribers".

    Everytime one logs in, or checks his emails, he get's to see Freedie's newest video.

    Me in your position, would choose the best video you have, probably not a too big one, and promote it with at least 200.000+ views.

    You have to just keep care, that you buy "fast views". This means, that you are going to get the views delivered in 2-3 days at most. This ensures, that your video will be seen on the YouTube frontpage, at least in the .UK. From there, the real viewers start to drop in.

    If your YouTube channel now get's a lot of attraction and people want to see more, there you are you just got the bump, that you need.

    It's all about marketing, and as you already may know what Shakespear said, the whole life is marketing.
     
  15. spruitje

    spruitje Junior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2011
    Messages:
    138
    Likes Received:
    64
    Location:
    on top
    If you can't beat them... Burn 'm! :bandit:
     
  16. singingsleep

    singingsleep Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2008
    Messages:
    408
    Likes Received:
    384
    Occupation:
    Jack of all trades, master of... well... several,
    Location:
    Inbox
    I would use every tool available to me to gain an advantage. We're the same age, OP. Please believe, above all, this forum is, at its heart, a MARKETING forum. A lot of marketing in general is shady-- but do you want to your message to have a broader reach? Of course. Use what you now know to get ahead. Read a lot here... the rest will come.

    Even if the ability to game views stopped tomorrow, someone will always have an unfair advantage-- thousands of facebook friends, an uncle that works at YT, etc. Don't think about it so much. Most people have no idea. It's just "creative marketing" :D
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2012
  17. orzyman

    orzyman Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2011
    Messages:
    808
    Likes Received:
    197
    Occupation:
    http://i.imgur.com/0aNSa.gif
    Location:
    in your mind
    ha that's youtube views and there are tons here if you want to blast your video to go viral
     
  18. warjam1945

    warjam1945 Junior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2012
    Messages:
    178
    Likes Received:
    18
    fairly baaahahahhaaad (sheepish anyone, anybody get it ......................)

    Buy the views!! I am subscribed to epicmealtime and they post their video in the middle of the night their time but i get it about 8.45am (live in ireland). I get it instantly and they always have 308 views or something every time. Can i be the 308th person every week!
     
  19. Roparadise

    Roparadise BANNED BANNED

    Joined:
    May 25, 2011
    Messages:
    786
    Likes Received:
    1,417

    Its because its of freeze youtube puts on videos lately,so that they are not coming from a bot. Its usually in the 300-308 range.
     
  20. The_Cat_In_The_Hat

    The_Cat_In_The_Hat Registered Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2012
    Messages:
    73
    Likes Received:
    21
    Occupation:
    Copywriter/Content
    Location:
    Nowhere man!!!
    I don't get this. You are saying youtube knows about this?

    (Obviously they do)...

    I don't mean to sound sensationalist, left wing, a whinger or a moaning here, I am just shocked slightly that this kind of stuff goes on. I am not knocking it (as much as it may sound like I am), I am just stating that it is in fact the auld adage that money rules all.

    There are still film competitions that are running within my local city, that have a prize for most youtube views.

    Madness!

    Ahh well, you guys aren't wrong, very good points and advice thrown around here, thank ye, thank ye all.