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Google is *CHANGING* and so should you.

Discussion in 'Black Hat SEO' started by bobbys, Mar 12, 2010.

  1. bobbys

    bobbys Regular Member

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    So I just read a post by some lost soul asking if anyone would share a comment they used in scrapebox. After reading the
    thread I passed out and pissed myself from frustration. While unconcious I had a dream about why so many people fail at
    internet marketing.

    Sharing ideas is what blackhatworld is all about and the reason why it's such a great forum, but certain things just aren't
    meant to be shared, like comments for scrapebox for example. If you are so lazy and unoriginal that you cannot come up
    with a unique 10-20 word spun phrase to post out of the nearly 200,000 words in the English language, then you really
    should not be using scrapebox or programs like it in the first place because believe me when I say that you will get absolutely
    no benefit from it.

    I know many of you won't believe me though, and will continue to blast the same comments across the internet endlessly,
    focusing on nothing but the number of backlinks listed in yahoo site explorer, so by all means go right ahead. You may
    even get a moments satisfaction in seeing the hundreds of blogs spin by in scrapebox's fast poster mode, thinking that
    you're actually doing something meaningful for your website's SERPs.

    But take into consideration that google also weighs and analyzes the text and keywords of your comment when deciding
    how to value the backlink you've left on a blog. There's probably close to 100 million "Nice site, is it yours too
    www.acai-flavored-viagra.com"
    comments floating around the internet. How much weight will google give this comment
    when it encounters it for the 100,000,0001th time?

    Maybe it would have worked 2-3 years ago before SEO automation became so accessible, but google is now extremely
    efficient and lethal at devaluing non-unique content and spam. It's the reason that paying for 5000 directory submissions
    with the same 2-3 descriptions of your website is now almost completely a waste of money.

    Even the old tried and true article submissions have lost much of their value. There used to be a time when you could
    copy an article you found, change the title and a few words around and resubmit it somewhere and you had yourself some
    origional content. But then a million different people started doing the same thing and so google adapted and changed their
    algorithms. I promise you that if you spend that same $50 you would spend on an article submission or directory submission
    service and go out and buy 10 - 100% unique articles and submit them once to each of the big sites like Ezine, GoArticles,
    Buzzle etc. and also use them properly with video, photos and other content on your main website you will see 10x the
    benefit of spamming near worthless directories.

    I don't believe most of the stories about google's duplicate content penalties anymore, as duplicating good content is what
    the internet is all about. What I've seen more often than not is rather than penalize you google will simply ignore you, pass
    you over, and mark your shit as having little to no value to humanity. I've noticed this even when spinning an article to
    40-50% uniqueness. Google is now analyzing number of sentences, paragraphs, synonyms and possibly a dozen other factors
    that engineers much smarter than most of us have whipped up code for their farms of servers to analyze. It's the reason
    why linkwheels with 50-100 sites all containing the same spun article on every site with anchor text pointing back to your
    site don't have the same punch they used to.

    I have learned more information in the past 2 years that has helped me make money than I could ever thank anyone
    on this forum for, but it makes me sad to see new folks coming into this and being led astray, wasting time and money with
    methods and ideologies that are now dated and at least a year or more behind the times.

    And as for the guy too lazy to write his own comment for scrapebox, well here you go buddy, go nuts:

    {Nice|Great|Good} {site|website|web site}, is it yours {too|also}? :eek:
     
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    Last edited: Mar 12, 2010
  2. Yukinari84

    Yukinari84 Elite Member

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    Google is definitely changing, and it always will be.

    I can say for a fact that taking an extra 30min or so a week to keep my eye on Google has made things in my business much easier. It allows me to not only know what changes I should be making within my business, it also keeps me ahead of most of the competition because the majority of marketers don't take the time to pay attention to Google and even the other SEs.


    It looks as if there will be another big shift coming in Google as far as content categorization goes that will probably have an impact on quite a few people's rankings. I've have seen them testing this more and more over the past month, and I'm sure it will be out within this year.

    Keeping your eye on Google, the other SEs, and what they are doing is something you must do in this business.
     
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  3. nufaman

    nufaman Elite Member

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    Yeah, well... newbies are lazy most of the times. Good for the rest of us that actually work. I spend at least 2 hours spinning my articles to make them at least 65% unique with senuke. While everyone else just uses some spinner to change the words and blast it all over the net where they will never be picked up, my articles actually stick and get indexed.

    Who cares if people are lazy. Good for me... less competition
     
  4. kranium

    kranium Newbie

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    Well said. The problem is that the more accessible these automation tools become, the harder it gets for all of us. You can see this effect every time a new tool is released to the masses. Scrapebox is a great example. It's effects are already greatly diminished thanks to people spamming the shit out of every blog in sight, and it's a relatively new tool. Google footprints us just like we footprint blogs. The difference in difficulty in IM between now and even just 4 years ago amazes me. IM is just going to get more and more sophisticated as time goes on, it's really just a cat and mouse game between the search engine engineers and the BH'ers. The bottom line is that there are no shortcuts; brains, hard work and time are the required ingredients to succeed in this game, just like anywhere else.
     
  5. The Captain

    The Captain Regular Member

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    Stop stealing my comments... I'm placing it on the Do Not Share List!!!
     
  6. torched

    torched Junior Member

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    Good post, and I agree with you that if people can't take the time to come up with their own unique comments then they shouldn't even bother using scrapebox and other automation programs.
     
  7. bobbys

    bobbys Regular Member

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    I honestly think Google's Ban Hammer is the most overhyped phenomenon in the SEO world.

    Imagine for a moment if Google really "banned" and "sandboxed" every site that did an xrumer blast, commented
    with scrapebox, or created a linkwheel with LFE. It would be like christmas in blackhat land where you'd have people
    coming out of the woodwork to buy these tools for the sole reason of blasting their competitors from page 1 into
    the depths of page 30 listings.

    Then imagine the emails google would get from hundreds of thousands of irate webmasters demanding their site be
    reconsidered. The internet would catch on fire from the collective ranting, raving, and chaos.

    I've noticed over the past year, and especially in the last few months, that Google is simply ignoring people more and
    more. I can write an 800 word 100% unique article, submit it to buzzle or ezine and get it on page 1 or 2 or 3 quite
    easily in a short period for all but the most competative of keywords. If I take that same article and spin it 50-60% and
    then put it through goarticles, I'll be lucky to get it on the first 10 pages, despite blasting and bookmarking it to high
    heaven. That same article spun yet again and submitted to a web 2.0 site like tumblr or hubpages will show up somewhere
    around page 20 of the listings.

    So when I say google is changing, I mean that they're getting better and better at recognizing tricks used to copy non
    unique and repeated content. This is something they were ineffective at doing only a year or so ago, but are becoming
    suprisingly good at presently, and will probably only get better with time and testing.
     
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  8. tonlilaz

    tonlilaz Executive VIP Premium Member

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    one of the biggest problem with automation is that most people don't take the time to learn about the service they are targeting.

    not only that, but they buy a software and read the manual....then they spam site(s) the way the software instructs them to....not realizing that 1000s of people are spamming in the exact same thing.
     
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  9. HowardOnline

    HowardOnline BANNED BANNED

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    lol ppl are still spinning stuff?
     
  10. bobbys

    bobbys Regular Member

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    Anyone who has been reading google's and matt cutt's official blog for a while will tell you there are marked differences between what Google would like for you to believe and what is actually true in everyday practice.

    Google's webmaster commandments are like the Bible. Nice in theory, but more fluff than substance.
     
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    Last edited: Mar 12, 2010
  11. lehpet

    lehpet Registered Member

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    My favorite (I won't say "noob" question because for all intents and purposes I AM a noob myself...just not a super lazy one!) questions are on the DL threads where someone has gone to the trouble of sharing some $100+ program and every other comment is "can you summarize this method for me?" or "what's this about?"

    Can't you freakin' read you lazy mofos?!?

    :banghead:

    Oh, and Google can suck it for excluding web designers and SEOs from their local maps listings!!!
     
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  12. tiffany

    tiffany Newbie

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    thank you !
     
  13. bobbys

    bobbys Regular Member

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    Not to pick on scrapebox users, but the worst offenders have to be the guys using the origional name file
    that comes with the software. Do a search for "Gregory Despain" on google and you'll see what I mean,
    it's been spammed so much that it's even in google's autosuggest for searches. People are silly :)
     
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  14. meathead1234

    meathead1234 Moderator Staff Member Moderator Premium Member

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    Please go back to DP
     
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  15. Micallef

    Micallef Supreme Member

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    Great observations. After using variations of the web 2.0 linked network methodology for nearly a year now, I have also come to conclude that there has been a considerable change in Google's algorithm with regard to linkwheel-style networks.

    Curiously, this seems only to apply to new networks which I try to set up. The filter is applied at the indexing stage.

    I created 4 successful "linkwheel" networks in a row when I started out, seeing between 4 and 8 of my spam web 2.0 properties make it onto the first page. A year on, three of them are still solidly in place, and the other one has slipped by about half. I used the same poor quality spinner for all of them.

    Around 4 or 5 months back, I started to notice indexing was taking a very long time for my new networks, using the same spinner with modifications. Even building backlinks didn't seem to solve the problem. Further to this, even when the pages did get indexed, they failed to rank well.

    Now I have had to adapt in order to get around Google's pretty impressive supposed new ability to evaluate the quality of web 2.0 content. Web 2.0 networks are now a serious investment of time and energy, and I take every measure to ensure that Google will be deceived into thinking that my properties contain genuinely worthwhile content. It's a lot of work, but the results are still worthwhile - when applied to the correct money site.

    One final note - we are seeing only broad effects and cannot correctly assign causes to them. I am assuming that Google are getting better at screening content, but I also see them rank complete crap above someone's heartfelt, useful essay on the same subject. Maybe it only applies to web 2.0 content.

    It might be some other factors as-well which are setting Google's filters off. It would seem much easier for Google to detect an unlikely number of web 2.0 sites with the same or similar titles and content subject created in a short time, then to create a complex content screening algorithm which, quite frankly, stretches the limits of what the bot is capable of, in my opinion.
     
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  16. bobbys

    bobbys Regular Member

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    I've experienced the same thing, all starting in the last few months, as you mentioned. It used to be that you could
    easily grab 3-4 articles, spin them 50-70% and put them on a wordpress or other similar blogging/2.0 site with some
    videos, bookmark it and show up on the first few pages within hours or days. Now eventhough these sites are still
    being indexed, the same effort that used to yield a page 2, 3 or 4 listing in days is nowhere to be found on the first
    10 pages or more. Although I have noticed that they do eventually start showing up in time if you update them with
    a little unspun, unique content from time to time, however sparse it may be. Ofcourse this varies according to keyword
    difficulty but that goes without saying I guess.


    While google's algorithms for finding and listing unique and fresh content have come a long way, it seems like they're
    still working on the ones for valuing that content correctly based on relevancy and usefullness, which is admittedly
    a much harder task to accomplish than simply checking for uniqueness.

    It's nice to see such senior posters contributing to the thread. Listen up new guys, there's some good info here.
     
  17. platinvm

    platinvm Senior Member

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    Exactly, that was my first thought when spinning started to loss some weight. I started to make 10-15 different unique titles and when I say unique I mean I spent a lot of time making them look a lot different. I have seen better results but not what I was hoping for.
     
  18. tacopalypse

    tacopalypse Executive VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    i wouldn't be surprised if google has someone working full-time just to monitor this site and take notes on all the strategies we reveal
     
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  19. xboxps3wow

    xboxps3wow Power Member

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    wait..... you mean NoFollow links will HARM my site? :eek: news to me!
     
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  20. tonlilaz

    tonlilaz Executive VIP Premium Member

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    i honestly was *this close* to buying senuke. but i've learned the hard way of the dangers of blind automation. There is nothing better than building and designing your own link wheel and backlink system that people wouldn't have considered possible because they're used to a computer to do the thinking for them.

    for example, i used to use speedppc for doing ppc stuff....but the minute I started to think about what I was doing, and plan my ppc campaigns...my traffic started to improve and my conversions got better.

    people tend to think that more is better....imo ONLY THOSE PPLE WHO'VE BEEN IN IM FOR A WHILE can live by that because they know the ins and outs of the net and understand/know what to do when something changes. but w/everybody else....the more is better philosophy is about as good as banging your head against the wall over and over and over again. At some point, you're just going to wind up with a bad headache.
     
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