FTC Preparing Antitrust Case Against Google

Actually... you are hearing mises :D I 'm an astute follower of the Austrian School :o

No doubt. If it wasn't obvious before (it was :) ) I knew that as soon as you posted the words 'human action'. But it's nice to run into a fellow Austrian somewhere outside of mises.org, and that's the important part. Have to keep spreading that good stuff.
 
So did google write the tax code? And what is stopping it's competitors from using those same loopholes? Who said it would be easy? s0ap and jazzc are exactly right.

Um, money stops it... companies generally need to spend their money early on on expansionary efforts, employess, infrastructure, etc. not spend millions on accountants.

There's tons that stop them from using it, as stated. Using it without proper accountants/lawyers signing off on it, etc can result in steep fines (100% of gross revenue) and imprisonment (for up to 10 years)

Google and various other large companies help to write the tax code:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/2011/09/30/google-apple-lobbies-for-tax-holiday.html
 
To be honest both Jazzc and Expertpeon make excellent points. But I kind of understand what Expertpeon is trying to explain, Everyone will have their own opinion as to what a monopoly is but that is beside the point, the point is there is no way in hell any company can compete with Google with their current market share and their loyal users, they can (and currently are) exercising an abuse of power by making updates which are really in their favor and simply labeling it as (bettering the user experience) not bringing in to light on what it's doing for them financially. The god to honest truth is Google is on the border line of being a monopoly/oligopoly but to some they already are. Google already dominated the search engine market and now look were they are headed... Now Google's into the automobile industry, telecom industry, Internet browsers, Operating Systems, and I'm sure they are probably working on other industry's which they have yet to reveal to the public. Not to mention the huge tax breaks Google must be getting and I would not be surprised if Google outsources the majority of its job's to India, Philippines, etc..
Everyone knows the path Google is heading, if they are not considered a "monopoly" now they sure as hell will be soon. To me personally I would not say that Google is trying to be a monopoly if they stayed within their means but currently google is acting like an octopus, getting there tentacles into any and every market available... and from the sign's of it, trying to dominate that particular market.

http://247wallst.com/2011/03/22/the-new-generation-of-american-monopolies/2/

Look who's the first one on the list.
 
Last edited:
Both of these points are valid and guess what? That is why they should go to court to decide it. It appears that excellent points can be made on both sides of the argument.
 
They could also be considered a monopoly by buying up the content they serve. So they already have youtube which is 2/10ths of many 1st page search results (now), plus their ad packs which take another 30% of page space and probably 50-60% of clicks, plus if they were to purchase more content producers such as Trip Advisor....
 
They could also be considered a monopoly by buying up the content they serve. So they already have youtube which is 2/10ths of many 1st page search results (now), plus their ad packs which take another 30% of page space and probably 50-60% of clicks, plus if they were to purchase more content producers such as Trip Advisor....


Lets say that the wife of Sergey Brin creates a company that buys Trip Advisor, and other sites.
And Google will just run advertising on those sites and promote them.

Is that a monopoly?
Prove it
 
No doubt. If it wasn't obvious before (it was :) ) I knew that as soon as you posted the words 'human action'. But it's nice to run into a fellow Austrian somewhere outside of mises.org, and that's the important part. Have to keep spreading that good stuff.

Hehe, an open book indeed :o Glad to have a fellow Austrian near by :)

As a side note, I 'm not a native English speaker and when I wrote "astute", I actually meant close - a minor detail but I wanted to correct the mistake as it bugged me.
 
The problem is, this law isn't a law at all, it's a loophole in the system of tax codes that are so incoherent that few accountants even understand it.

So, even if we take your word that you know a super secret and convoluted way that only billion+ companies can exploit, do you think it supports your argument? :)

If the law has a loophole, it 's there for a reason. And it 's there because of the government (unless you think you know about and the government is stupid and does not have the resources to know).

And since it wasn't Google who lobbied for that supposed loophole, it does not make Google a monopoly. You need to petition to the government to reform its tax laws. Do you?

Yeah... not a barrier of entry at all.

None at all. Did google overthrow yahoo because of tax breaks? :D

Furthermore, every one of your posts asks between 2 to 10 questions, and no statements are made. It's incredibly annoying so I'm gone...

It 's because I have to address your 2 to 10 fallacies each time :o
 
This kind of reminds me of when the FTC did the same thing to Microsoft. Probably the same will happen here. Nothing. If much had happened to Microsoft they wouldn't have allowed them to buy Yahoo. Nothing to see here.
 
So, even if we take your word that you know a super secret and convoluted way that only billion+ companies can exploit, do you think it supports your argument? :)

If the law has a loophole, it 's there for a reason. And it 's there because of the government (unless you think you know about and the government is stupid and does not have the resources to know).
These loopholes were added by large corporations in the 60s and then modified and improved later in the 80s.
Yes, Google lobbies for special tax treatments to make them even more competitive than any small business competitor.
I linked you directly to it

I'm not here to teach you accounting... in fact, your denial of this problem makes me think you've never made a red haired cent in SEO. Anyone with a medium sized e-commerce business has likely faced these realities.

It is truly impossible to compete with mega multinational corporations that outsource tons of their staff, avoiding payroll taxes, unemployment taxes, state taxes, and shuffle money to pay a lower effective rate than is even possible within the US (all US businesses must pay a ridiculous 35% federal rate, which only small businesses ACTUALLY pay)

Why is it impossible? Since you lack reading comprehension seemingly:
1) They have large channels for marketing already in place and any small business must establish those same channels or better, with at least 5 times increased efficiency (marketing expenses are a long term tax deduction and are taxed CURRENTLY at 35% for US companies and allowed to be deducted over 5 years! Google just pays for this crap with their offshore holdings and pay 0%)
2) They have paid off every major cell phone company in the world, with free software, OS, etc. Once again, requiring MULTINATIONAL exposure
3) They can shuffle employees worldwide, and pay effectively no taxes on empolyment. Meaning any small business must have between 20-30% greater employee efficiency to compete.
4) Their infrastructure is not taxed currently in the USA, as most of their farms are offshore assets. Meaning that asset, capital gains, passive income generated is taxed at 50% for competitors. So US corporations to compete with them that are small must have AT LEAST a 150% efficiency over their farms.
Worse than this, these are all 5 to 7 year deductions... with no accelerated rates starting next year.

You're ridiculous... I'm not going to teach you accounting for taxes in order to prove the above, just read through ALL of section 26 of the USC
You're right... someone could take over Google's role. They just have to be roughly 500% more efficient? (taking a guess here)
 
Last edited:
None at all. Did google overthrow yahoo because of tax breaks?
biggrin.png
yahoo was the most used shit at the time, but google was better

Now google uses the money from the tax opportunity's, to buy the competition and to promote new features in the search engine. Like Microsoft did with Windows
 
Last edited:
yahoo was the most used shit at the time, but google was better

Now google uses the money from the tax opportunity's, to buy the competition and to promote new features in the search engine. Like Microsoft did with Windows

In neither case should multinationals be treated differently than domestic corporations for taxes. If you wish to, the corporate tax rate should be 0%
Google was better than yahoo, but that does not mean google is better than every one of their competitors.

The logical fallacies here are pretty disgusting.

Jazzc needs to stop the Socratic Milton Friedman-type banter and actually face down the problems of his theory that "natural monopolies" exist in the USA today.
The idea of a "free market", especially in the USA, is an economic fallacy that has been properly debunked in hundreds of market studies.
http://www.mediahell.org/freemarket.htm

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/10/09/909120/-Free-Market-Fallacy

Articles on this fallacy can even be found on mises:
http://mises.org/freemarket_detail.aspx?control=531
 
Last edited:
Who needs late night TV drama shows when we got Expertpeon & Jazzc. No seriously you both make good arguments, now the best thing would be to find a common ground like "I love When Google Helps me make money, even that I {insert here/ "think they are capitalist greedy swine eating double Dutch sandwich" or "are just coolest most efficient money swindlers who I love" } Now go ahead and create special edition WSO for Warrior Forum on how to monetize on "How Google's {insert here " got its balls crsuched by the White House" or "conqueried the White House" } PS: no I am not big fan of G's business practices and would not drop a single tear when they go under, but I can admire their success and hypocritically love it when I use G to make money.
I was just about to say that. Seriously Jazz and Expertpeon both make really well constructive arguments.Cant wait for round 2 if there is ever one. Its hard to take sides on this matter, since both parties bring some very intriguing points.
 
I would think there would be outrage from a lot of small business owners that could influence politicians. We know politicians are obviously in the pocket of the Big Boys but I wonder if this was brought on by angry small and mid-sized companies getting the boot from this Monopoly.

Although they have spent 9 million in lobbying http://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/clientsum.php?id=D000022008, so they own a lot of pockets unfortunately.

Real "Free Market" huh guys.
 
Although they have spent 9 million in lobbying http://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/clientsum.php?id=D000022008, so they own a lot of pockets unfortunately.

$9 millions is pocket change, who believes that 9 mils can buy so many things is dreaming.

Real bribes start at $1 million for a person.


There are other ways a small company can avoid taxes.
 
Back
Top