DYK - PageRank is not dead... :)

Well, I'm sure this is certainly going to cause a stir up! BTW - I really have nothing to prove but share this information, so don't hate the messenger!

So PageRank. It's still alive and its heart still beats. BUT BUT BUT - Yes, type in pagerank into Google and see the masses of results of SEO blogs saying it's DEAD / DESTORYED / BLASTED INTO OBLIVION etc etc

No. Fortunately it's not dead. It's just Google has decided NOT to update it's toolbar or figure for front end users (that's us)

Pagerank is still a fundamental and core part of Google's organic search algorithm. It was what they created (many moons ago) to give an SSF (simple statistical figure) on a websites authority online by collating information from IBL's, OBL's, content and relevancy and pushing it through a calculation to give a number between 0 and 10. So I'll mention it again;

Google still use PageRank. They just don't update their toolbar to give you the updated figure. Front-end page rank updates isn't an automated process. Hence why, 2-3 years ago, we only saw 1-2 page rank updates a year! (It's manually processed).

Technically therefore you can argue PageRank is dead ONLY if you using it in the context from acheiving an advantage from an SEO point of view. This is because the figure of PR you see today on a website (if historical) is based on 2013 results.

Let's get the discussion going.

Gloveybaby said:

...Let's get the discussion going.

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What discussion? We all know this, but for the noob coming into SEO PR is dead as a metric.

W130SN said:

What discussion? We all know this, but for the noob coming into SEO PR is dead as a metric.

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Ahh - I wish you were right! It would save me having to post this

lol, we all know that already but thanks anyway.

W130SN said:

What discussion? We all know this, but for the noob coming into SEO PR is dead as a metric.

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Wrong as in 'We all know this'.

Right in 'PR dead as a metric'.

Should've explained my previous post a little clearer!

W130SN said:

What discussion? We all know this, but for the noob coming into SEO PR is dead as a metric.

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Exactly my thoughts, was going to say this but you beat me to it.

PR is dead!
They have moved on to other algorithms to rank sites and its not available as a metric to us to see.

So if Google still updates and uses PR but we do not have access to the PR figures that they are using then yes for us as the end user PR is mostly dead.

As you acknowledged, we cannot see today's PR value of a site but a version of it from 2013 so it is becoming less and less useful for us. If Google started updating it again then it would be very useful as a quality metric for a site but alas I doubt that will happen.

So go hack Gооgle DB and let we know the actual PR from their internal sources..

It's dead .

Lauriat said:

lol, we all know that already but thanks anyway.

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Of course - we all know that!

Reads the comments below.

Oh wait!

liberox said:

So go hack Gооgle DB and let we know the actual PR from their internal sources..

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Have you got a plan.... stan?

jimbobo2779 said:

So if Google still updates and uses PR but we do not have access to the PR figures that they are using then yes for us as the end user PR is mostly dead.

As you acknowledged, we cannot see today's PR value of a site but a version of it from 2013 so it is becoming less and less useful for us. If Google started updating it again then it would be very useful as a quality metric for a site but alas I doubt that will happen.

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Thanks for generating a discussion! (It's nice to find someone who likes to discuss these points)

PR isn't dead. It's useless from a metric point of view (i.e. Using it as a measuring / guide tool for a domains authority).

That's right. We can't see today's PR value. I would love to have Google update their PR scores. Which by the way, happened by accident on the last update they did - as so they say! The reason why PR is so useful is the fact that its come from the eye of the beholder, the horses mouth (insert another saying here). It's GOOGLE's representation of their OWN authoritative view of a website.

DA / PA / CF / TF are all assumptions of what we have/had known as PR, so they truly aren't accurate. Accurate not based on their own calculations, but in comparison to Google's calculations. Moz / Majestic have been rather clever though in being able to force their way into the industry and now these metrics are regarded as the standard norm.

The question is:

What use is Google's internal Page Rank to us SEO's?

The answer is:

It is not of any use since we do not know what it is.

Hence, people call it dead.

When you look at PR as a metric to judge the value of a site, you are at best looking at 2013 data. Or, over two year old data. For that reason, 'PR is dead.' Unless you know something we do not about the data available to the public. If PR updates then maybe it could mean something. But until this happens, it is dead.

I do not quite get your point. Rather than calling other experienced SEO's wrong, maybe back what ever point you have up with something? We all do know that Google still uses PR as an internal metric. Does it matter for us? No. Because we do not have access to their data. A PR 3 site from 2013 can be a PR0 site today. Since we can't determine the PR of a site today, PR is dead for SEOs.

Every few months a thread like this pops up to 'discuss' PR. Until you can show me Google's internal data giving me a PR update for my sites and Expired domains, it is a waste of time to think about. We do not know and may never know.

lol why would you assume that people saying PR is dead meant the actual pagerank that Google uses ?.I guess you are the dumb one now, huh ?

It's not biological dead, however it is clinical dead.

lightningblitz said:

The question is:

What use is Google's internal Page Rank to us SEO's?

The answer is:

It is not of any use since we do not know what it is.

Hence, people call it dead.

When you look at PR as a metric to judge the value of a site, you are at best looking at 2013 data. Or, over two year old data. For that reason, 'PR is dead.' Unless you know something we do not about the data available to the public. If PR updates then maybe it could mean something. But until this happens, it is dead.

I do not quite get your point. Rather than calling other experienced SEO's wrong, maybe back what ever point you have up with something? We all do know that Google still uses PR as an internal metric. Does it matter for us? No. Because we do not have access to their data. A PR 3 site from 2013 can be a PR0 site today. Since we can't determine the PR of a site today, PR is dead for SEOs.

Every few months a thread like this pops up to 'discuss' PR. Until you can show me Google's internal data giving me a PR update for my sites and Expired domains, it is a waste of time to think about. We do not know and may never know.

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I do not agree with you calling me out and blatantly accusing me of saying experienced SEO's are wrong. You can stuff that matey. All I am clearly doing is passing the message on and discussing it from one view point.

In regards to your last paragraph; Well isn't that just generally SEO in a nutshell? Come on. We're all doing relatively the same tactics, building up PBN's, measuring keyword rankings, carrying out SEO tactics, blog posts etc to influence search rankings. Nothing is truly proven as it's extremely difficult to isolate a standalone situation with an algorithm that none of us (unless a Google engineer is lurking around) truly understand.

Yes yes, we know links still are the majority 'share holder' in ranking a website and we can generalise to what we expect each algorithmic factor weighs in ranking a website.

However if you simply do not want to discuss and contribute to a theorectical 'chat' then why not move your eyes elsewhere?

Kralj187 said:

It's not biological dead, however it is clinical dead.

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I quite like that! It's one of those sayings 'Content is king. Context is queen'.

PR is dead and so is SEO. End of story. Now let's go build some more backlinks.

classybabe said:

lol why would you assume that people saying PR is dead meant the actual pagerank that Google uses ?.I guess you are the dumb one now, huh ?

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- I'm not too sure what you mean?

You're quite right - I can be dumb, the majority of times. As you can quite imagine, there's a lot of fluff which goes around the SEO industry. I mean, look at my profile - what backing do I have to provide information about PR? I don't come from Google (or do I?.....)

Well apart from owning a successfully established UK business and a few affiliate sites which keeps the misses happy with boundless shopping spree's. I don't want to even go down this route - I did not intend to offend / cause alarm I only simply wanted to create a discussion!