drugs yay or nay?

DrJekyll said:

Friend died of lung cancer.

fortunately my father quit cigs.

Ironically I am not against weed and those that smoke it. But it has its dangers just like alcohol will destroy your liver, but you don't see warning labels on it [not that I have seen anyway]

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Not surprising that he did, if indeed he did smoke too much (of anything). One can take/use too much of anything and die. Friends mother died of blood poisoning, from the very medicine that the doctors deemed OK to give to her. I personally believe that if she had access to cannabis she'd still be alive.

And to the people debating that cannabis doesn't cause cancer is, sadly false. There is indeed a chance of getting cancer, even if is slim.
I mean... you're inhaling heated plant matter into your lungs, there is going to be a chance, but you must also take into account that cannabis is untouched, unlike cigarettes, which contain multiple proven seriously harmful ingredients.

Everyday like it or not you're constantly around things that can cause cancer.

most things in moderation are "ok" sometimes helpful

most things taken in excess are dangerous, just rules of thumb.

CClark56 said:

Headline: "...could increase the risk of cancer."

"However, there has been uncertainty over whether marijuana smoke has the same effect."

"However, it has been difficult to measure DNA damage from acetaldehyde with conventional tests."

"...implying that the consumption of cannabis cigarettes may be detrimental to human health with the possibility to initiate cancer development"

Doesn't seem like they've proved much at all.

First one pretty much did it for me, if they call that a form of proof then I really don't feel a need to read anymore.

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Phunky said:

Those articles do the same old propaganda dance that I've seen for many years. It may cause this or may cause that. Inconclusive results = no deal. Marijuana can be an all natural source of fuel, fiber (for rope, clothing, etc), paper, food, medicine, stress relief, and good times with friends. Show me another plant that can accomplish this. It's not illegal because it is bad for us. It became illegal because of greed, lies, and racism. It remains illegal solely because of greed since it would turn around our industry and take money from the greedy people from pharmaceutical's, oil guru's, etc. Did you know prisons tax dollars based on how many people are locked up? Full prisons = full pockets. So they just arrest a shitload of nonviolent "criminals" and lock them up for years. Nobody is arguing that marijuana will get you high so I don't know why so many responses are arguing the definition of a drug and bringing chemistry into it.

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You must have skipped the "propaganda" study proving that pot smoking destroys your lungs. But hey, puff away, they're your lungs:

flow said:

Ideas like this are really narrow-minded and evidence of some serious anti-drug propaganda probably instilled at a young age. I embrace reality.. in fact I love being sober, I love the world in my normal perception of it. You can use drugs as a healthy person and not be abusive.



How I want to treat my body is not a personal thing? If I can die it's no longer personal? WTF are you smoking? Have you ever heard of the right to the pursuit of happiness? If eating McDonalds quadruple stacks and driving with no seatbelt makes me happy, then I should be able to do those things. And Fuck You for telling me I shouldn't be able to and that it's no longer my decision at a certain point. Now if I decide that drinking and driving makes me happy, well now I'm endangering other people and I need to be stopped.

The government DOES NOT know what's best for it's people. THE PEOPLE know what's best for it's people-- you sound like you live in a dictatorship of some sort, and that's cool if that's how you want to live. I prefer a democracy-- one in which the PEOPLE decide what's best.

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ARE YOU SERIOUS?

FUCK ME?!

Ok. I don't want to be a dick and start a war so I'm gonna be real.

I didn't say you shouldn't eat cheeseburgers or don't do stuff that you enjoy. But people go over the limit without knowing it. Do you really think 67% of freedom happy land USA would be fat if they all knew they are in serious risk of getting life threatening diseases??? When you don't wear your seat belt do you imagine yourself dead in the drivers seat??? NO NO NO NO NO

THE GOVERNMENT DOES NOT KNOW WHAT IS BEST FOR ITS PEOPLE?!?!?!

Are you shitting me? That statement just proves that you think you're the only person in the world and you think the internet is Earth. Ok the people know best. Let's just take out law enforcement, health care (US doesn't have a good one but America isn't actually the only country in the world! I know, that's unbelievable!), education, infrastructure development and all the other stuff we take for granted.

And I actually live in Australia. I'm from China and proud of it. No, we aren't brainwashed sheep living for Mr. Mao... China isn't really communist, just authoritarian. You guys who have it better in the West should actually do some RESEARCH before you make shit up about something you think you know when in fact it's SO MUCH MORE. Tired of this "hey look its the commies! go ride a bike and eat some rice! LOL wat a noob im so awesome!" shit.

Democracy ain't that pretty also. I prefer a system that doesn't exist. A blend between real hard working politicians who work for the people, and free speech to a peaceful degree.

The people don't know what is best themselves. The people know what they want.

So can you tell do you still think it's about "fuck the government"?

You guys have it so much better than us and you STILL bitch.

Phunky said:

I never said I knew everything so don't put words into my mouth. Ty.



What the fuck does obesity have to do with anything?



You will be perfect in a government job. Restrictions on life are for nothing, but control. I understand basic laws such as stealing, murder, etc. But if you think YOU or ANYONE deserves to make simple decisions FOR ME then it's your ego that needs to be analyzed.



Agreed.



The problem I have with this is the fact that I am not given choice. They don't give a fuck about your life. They want to hand you another ticket when they pull you over and collect the cash. How can you be so blind to what goes on around you? Wake up!

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Ok, you actually accept that you don't know everything. Sorry for that. Ok, what I meant is that you think you know a lot about drugs and their affects, when you don't.

Obesity has got a lot to do with this. People think drugs are bad but ok. They destroy their health without realizing it. People think junk food is bad but ok. They destroy their health without realizing it.

I don't want to work for the government. This is all coming from myself... And taking drugs, eating shit aren't simple decisions.

I'm glad you at least agree with me on something.

Why don't they give a fuck about my life? The government's whole point is to do good for us. I'm not blind, I just think people are adding to much BS on stuff these days.

Why do guys feel that your government is controlled by corporations who want to take over the world... They''re just people who are trying to do their job. And sometimes they make mistakes. But it's always with a good intention.

This is how I feel when I'm trying to explain something online: me:"1+1=2" guy:"No you don't get it you noob! The government wants you to think that!" me:"But it does..." guy:"Yep, your brainwashed." me:"No, but it actually does!" guy:"No point trying to explain to you." me:"..."

CClark56 said:

You should NOT be fined if you're over the age of 18 (meaning, if there are children in the car and you choose not to make them buckle up then you should be fined for each child) and decide not to wear your seat belt, it is your OWN personal choice not to wear it... you're not risking anyone's life except your own.

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What are you talking about? Of course you're risking other peoples lives. If you sit in the back of a car, don't wear your seatbelt and the car has an accident. Where do you think you're going to end up? You're going to end up on the road after killing the person in the seat in front of you.

And I don't know about the US, but in the UK, YOUR death costs just about everybody money in taxes (health/morgue/admin costs). So you not wearing your seatbelt and dying on the road affects everyone.

Hey Yao, I don't mean to offend you with my 'fuck you' comment. I've got love for you-- I'm more just saying it to what you represented with that post-- which I don't equate with a person since we are continually shifting and mutating as a 'person' with opinions.

Your first point is good-- and our ignorance is exactly why we should have reliable knowledge concerning all the things we can do that can potentially harm us. Including McDonalds, drugs, and seat belts. We need RELIABLE education about the REAL dangers and LOTS of it. That would replace the need for laws restricting us.

I'm not sure what your point is about the government knowing what's best for its people. I'm speaking about gov't as separate from its people. In the US the people is almost the gov't but there is now too much influence controlling our gov't to call it 'gov't by the people'.

I've never said anything about China and I won't because I'm not familiar with China.

I also agree with you about democracy. It's deeply flawed and I would prefer some type of an anarchy like you suggest, but I don't think humans can handle that responsibility yet. We've let big brother hold our hand for centuries and that dependency is something that will take a very long time to break in order for an anarchy to become stable (stable because of the willingness of the people to make it work)

It's not so much fuck the government, it's more like fuck the people who get the majority vote that says I can't put what I want inside my body.

yao1994 said:

ARE YOU SERIOUS?

FUCK ME?!

Ok. I don't want to be a dick and start a war so I'm gonna be real.

I didn't say you shouldn't eat cheeseburgers or don't do stuff that you enjoy. But people go over the limit without knowing it. Do you really think 67% of freedom happy land USA would be fat if they all knew they are in serious risk of getting life threatening diseases??? When you don't wear your seat belt do you imagine yourself dead in the drivers seat??? NO NO NO NO NO

THE GOVERNMENT DOES NOT KNOW WHAT IS BEST FOR ITS PEOPLE?!?!?!

Are you shitting me? That statement just proves that you think you're the only person in the world and you think the internet is Earth. Ok the people know best. Let's just take out law enforcement, health care (US doesn't have a good one but America isn't actually the only country in the world! I know, that's unbelievable!), education, infrastructure development and all the other stuff we take for granted.

And I actually live in Australia. I'm from China and proud of it. No, we aren't brainwashed sheep living for Mr. Mao... China isn't really communist, just authoritarian. You guys who have it better in the West should actually do some RESEARCH before you make shit up about something you think you know when in fact it's SO MUCH MORE. Tired of this "hey look its the commies! go ride a bike and eat some rice! LOL wat a noob im so awesome!" shit.

Democracy ain't that pretty also. I prefer a system that doesn't exist. A blend between real hard working politicians who work for the people, and free speech to a peaceful degree.

The people don't know what is best themselves. The people know what they want.

So can you tell do you still think it's about "fuck the government"?

You guys have it so much better than us and you STILL bitch.

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Drugs enhance life and sex. Certain drugs that is but like anything in life, too much isn't good. Moderation is key.

ratdaddee said:

You must have skipped the "propaganda" study proving that pot smoking destroys your lungs. But hey, puff away, they're your lungs:

"A new study finds that the development of bullous lung disease occurs in marijuana smokers approximately 20 years earlier than tobacco smokers. It is the breathing manoeuvres of marijuana smokers that serve to increase the concentration and pulmonary deposition of inhaled particulate matter - resulting in greater and more rapid lung destruction."

Blackwell Publishing (2008, January 27). Marijuana Smokers Face Rapid Lung Destruction -- As Much As 20 Years Ahead Of Tobacco Smokers. ScienceDaily. Retrieved October 25, 2009, http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/01/080123104017.htm​

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I'm not debating cannabis does or does not destroy ones lungs. Of course it's going to have an affect on a persons lungs, as I said your heating plant matter and sucking it into your lungs, how are you not going to have any problems from that?

But what I didn't find in that study is the doses and how long they actually kept the smoke in (other than 5 times longer than cigarette smokers, how long is that, exactly, they never said)

And I did some research on that study and found they did a test of 10 people who have smoked cannabis previously and already had the disease, and then did the test on them.
So it wasn't like they went in healthy and came out sick.

But unlike tobacco cannabis users have more options on how to ingest the drug, one being vaporization.
Vaporization cools*, cleans and preps the smoke to an acceptable level.

*I bring cooling the smoke up because that was one of the causes of the said disease above.

---

And about the seat belt issue, you're right, I didn't think of it that way. +1 to you.
Still yet, I don't think people should be pulled over JUST for a seat belt violation.

I'd rather them keep a look out for the drunks and plain idiot drivers.

Blows my mind that all the mystics knew of the third eye before science proved it was ever once an eye...

Pinealocytes in lower vertebrate animals have a strong resemblance to the photoreceptor cells of the eye. It is indeed so that the human pineal gland can be evolutionary retraced to the pineal (or third) eye in reptiles and birds. In some reptiles this pineal eye is an almost fully developed eye with lens, vitreous humor, and retina...

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As long as these people don't damage my property or harm me, I don't care what they do. Personally I find drugs to be a waste of time, I would rather do something productive with my time.

I do know the effects of drugs on people. I've been there and done that for many many years. Over the years I found that marijuana is and will always be safer then alcohol ever will be. I could be a good ole American boy and go to keg parties, but I choose to chill at home with my friends. Obesity still has nothing to do with this so there is no reason to bring your fat people grudge into this. You think overweight people think they are healthy? I guess that's why the battle with it in the mirror every day. Only reason I said you would be great for the government is because you believe everything they say. They would love you. The government cares less about you than you may think. If you believe the seat belt law is here to just save lives then you are really a politicians wet dream. I never said anything about corporations taking over the world. Your arguments tend to have bits and pieces of shit nobody is talking about. It's strange. All I mean is a lot of people are fueled by greed. Read up on the history of marijuana prohibition and see what you find. The government is certainly not always bad. They do a lot of good things, but they do a lot of bad as well...on purpose.

mmhustler, I hope you're not making an objective statement about drugs being unproductive for everyone. Your 'productive' comment seems caustic. Everyone has to define productive for themselves and many would say any time spent making more money than you need to survive is unproductive in the sense that we can find peace and security by spending time developing ourselves. Many people also feel that certain drugs (namely entheogens) help with that immensely.

Ok.

Here's my take... Sorry for dredging up an old topic but I had to have my 2 cents.

I've tried almost everything. Only thing is no needles, petrified of them (when I tell you my job you'll laugh) - so no Heroin, and no crack since I live in Australia - we just don't have it here... probably a good thing.

Here are some facts.

Facts people.

*Marijuana can send a person into psychosis even if they are a casual user, it's about the chemical balances in the brain and how the THC reacts with them. Seen it first hand in friends and at work.

*In Australia, emphysema in younger (under 30) heavy pot smokers can be cleary seen. This is due to I reckon a) we use tobacco mixed with pot 1:1 ratio and b) most bongs here are 'springers' a glass juice bottle with a PVC piping stem/mouthpiece... the elements of the PVC with heat - not good.

*Speed is made different here as compared to Europe. Here pseudoephedrine is the core component, in Europe it's more often than not battery acid. One is better in my opinion of trying both, care to guess which one?!

Now my opinions:

*My favorites: ****************s (in Amsterdam... perfect) and Ecstacy. Don't do either anymore though.

*Most over-rated: Cocaine. Yeah, it's alright - but insanely expensive in Australia and not worth the buzz even if cheaper. My opinion of course... then again, if I were a rich man..?!?!

*One thing I realised - Smoking Marijuana for 7 years, most of those years smoking morning/noon/night it was hard to kick the habit. You just have to wait until you want to... don't force it. Now, if I have a bowl next to me I'll smoke it - but if it's not in the house I don't even think about it. Smoke about 1-2 a month and every time I get the fuckin' giggles like I'm 15 again... lol



Just FYI - I working in Pathology in one of Australia's leading hospitals. I was accepted into Mensa at 16 but only went to University for a few months before burning out. Was taking drugs before and afterwards. Now only recreationally. I believe that everyone is entitled to make their own minds up.

If you don't like them, don't take them... just don't get one your high horse and preach evil sinner to drug takers.

If you do like them, don't bitch and argue with anti-drugs people. They don't like them = more drugs for you.


Anyways. I've found this new thing... it's called Beer...