Don't use Upwork

Aluminium said:

I wish!

UpWork is the DEBIL (reference to Adam Sandler's "The Water Boy")!

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Sadly options are limited now thanks to them.

Outsource.ph is one option, but again it's not that cheap.

I do know a guy who took a free account on there, then search for the people he wanted to speak to through Google and contacted them direct.

BlogPro said:

Beware with this, as Upwork frowns upon this and will likely suspend your and the freelancers' account there.

I hired a VA once to do some grunt work on a few of my sites, fixing image alignments - cleaning up revisions etc. She requested to be paid outside of upwork, since she wished to avoid the fee.

Later that evening she sent me this email.

I got a warning email too. But since maybe I was spending money with them, I didn't lose my account?

Sigh!

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How did they find out? Was it obvious in your chat inside Upwork?

They have an auto search filter for certain words. I was told "Paypal" is a word that will get flagged and they will check to see if you're trying to pay outside of upwork.

I had a 2 employer accounts with both over 50k spent
got banned and then they tried to charge my cc for invoices that were filed after the account was closed to which I had no control of preventing
Tried to contact support but their support consists of incompetent filipino imbiciles as somewhere around 2014 they shifted their support to some stupid bpo there. So had to chargeback and get my money back that way.


Did that make me stop working with upwork?
No
I just opened another account and minimized hiring only for those skillsets harder to find on other platforms
Why? Because at the end you have to see about ROI and time vs cash flow
Get things done the way it makes you money

Do I hate upworks guts?
yep but I will still use their system when it benefits me

so what if they are unethical
people are unethical everywhere
in this case why would any other freelancer stop their income because of some sob story by someone who got hammered in an unethical way? shit happens
just move on or get better at it now you know how the system works, make it work to your advantage
this is the difference between losers and winners and sheep and leaders
don't follow people blindly and be another rock for someone to kick
the referenced person in the OP would be so happy if you all stopped so he can make his point but would your family or self be happy with a reduction in income?
dont burn your boat before you come to shore

bartosimpsonio said:

How did they find out? Was it obvious in your chat inside Upwork?

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There's no doubt that they scan chats and as @CaptainJackSparrow said - they might have certain keywords that flagged conversation.

It was definitely not apparent through the chat, but more likely someone who put two and two together.

Can't stand companies that don't take customer service seriously.

living2xl said:

I had a 2 employer accounts with both over 50k spent
got banned and then they tried to charge my cc for invoices that were filed after the account was closed to which I had no control of preventing
Tried to contact support but their support consists of incompetent filipino imbiciles as somewhere around 2014 they shifted their support to some stupid bpo there. So had to chargeback and get my money back that way.


Did that make me stop working with upwork?
No
I just opened another account and minimized hiring only for those skillsets harder to find on other platforms
Why? Because at the end you have to see about ROI and time vs cash flow
Get things done the way it makes you money

Do I hate upworks guts?
yep but I will still use their system when it benefits me

so what if they are unethical
people are unethical everywhere
in this case why would any other freelancer stop their income because of some sob story by someone who got hammered in an unethical way? shit happens
just move on or get better at it now you know how the system works, make it work to your advantage
this is the difference between losers and winners and sheep and leaders
don't follow people blindly and be another rock for someone to kick
the referenced person in the OP would be so happy if you all stopped so he can make his point but would your family or self be happy with a reduction in income?
dont burn your boat before you come to shore

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Your entire speech seems to suggest people should just take whatever crap is shoved down their throats, as long as it still benefits more than hurts them.
You don't seem to understand that if people massively refuse to, things will improve for everyone. Including you. Collective bargaining is just about the only way you can improve your situation when you're up against something too big for you to avoid or handle.

When you're talking about the cost vs. benefit analysis of forcing upwork to improve your conditions vs. the benefit, I think you're contradicting yourself.

JTrussles said:

Your entire speech seems to suggest people should just take whatever crap is shoved down their throats, as long as it still benefits more than hurts them.
You don't seem to understand that if people massively refuse to, things will improve for everyone. Including you. Collective bargaining is just about the only way you can improve your situation when you're up against something too big for you to avoid or handle.

When you're talking about the cost vs. benefit analysis of forcing upwork to improve your conditions vs. the benefit, I think you're contradicting yourself.

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Not for me. If you read I have an employer account and this case has absolutely nothing to do with my targets or goals and will never benefit me in any substantial manner.

I never asked or petitioned anyone to improve others' their conditions. That is what you guys are trying to do, at the sacrifice of others their income which have totally nothing to do with his case.
Why should anyone sacrifice his $$ for this man in the hopes of a pipe dream of upwork changing their policies in a non subjective and collective affecting manner?
Show me the proof that this man has done this type of sacrifice for anyone else before?

Follow others as you wish. I and anyone that wants to succeed will take their own path to their own benefit.
You can wear your grey woollen socks and pretend to be able to change the world but you will not be able to do anything. Help yourself first before you are able to help others. No one wants to hurt their income because of one misfortunate person who has some friends with good standing blogs and some social media screamers.
Cases like these happen everyday. Saying nobody cares except those who stand nothing to lose like those bloggers while petitioning others is just fake.
Let those bloggers show their freelance accounts and terminate/stop using them and show that to us as proof if they are REAL, including you.
if not then dont ask others to do what you will not do

They have a saying in my country. Not every sheep has your leg. e.g. When he or she breaks it, yours is not unless you walk in their footsteps.

Stop pretending this person needs help. There are many many others needing help or assistance in this world and this man can clearly take care of his own and wet his own throat to feed himself. Go out in the streets and feed the poor with food or give them shelter in your own home if you do what you preach where your energy would be better spend than helping this man who can clearly and easily help himself.

JTrussles said:

Your entire speech seems to suggest people should just take whatever crap is shoved down their throats, as long as it still benefits more than hurts them.
You don't seem to understand that if people massively refuse to, things will improve for everyone. Including you. Collective bargaining is just about the only way you can improve your situation when you're up against something too big for you to avoid or handle.

When you're talking about the cost vs. benefit analysis of forcing upwork to improve your conditions vs. the benefit, I think you're contradicting yourself.

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The issue is, that the internet is as disorganized as it gets. Several members having a membership to the same site, does not put them on the same side of the situation.

The issue is that if you refuse, there is always someone else out of the million other Freelancers who'll be more than ready to usurp that opportunity.

For instance, I lost around $800 a couple of days ago owing to a former BHW member, who first tried evading paying the second half of his payment post delivery and then on being called out went ahead and did a chargeback on his older payments. Does that mean I should abandon BHW and/or Paypal? Even if I do, will there be a dearth of people providing the same set of services as I am? Nope. Will any form of activity come to a standstill? Nope.

Since there is an acute lack of any union, there is never going to be a shortage of buyers or sellers on this platform. A uniform rebellion will be curbed before it even begins. Even Medium was forced to remove all his images, all this owing to a good PR machinery put in place.

I am by no means saying that the dude wasn't wronged, or that Upwork wasn't being completely unreasonable. But then the world doesn't stop here.

He whines in the post about losing business. When he, in fact, should've been actively soliciting for more.

That post will never make me stop buying on Upwork, neither will it deter any Freelancer who is looking for work. Times are tough and having a job is better than being broke.

We, as marketers, succumb to the several nuances put in place by Google - many being unreasonable as fuck, but still go ahead with our business. Do we abandon Google or for that matter, can we abandon Google?

Monopolies have existed since a long time. So unless there is someone who can come in and disrupt what Upwork is doing as a major player, things will remain how they are.

A mere post will do nothing.

living2xl said:

Not for me. If you read I have an employer account and this case has absolutely nothing to do with my targets or goals and will never benefit me in any substantial manner.

I never asked or petitioned anyone to improve others' their conditions. That is what you guys are trying to do, at the sacrifice of others their income which have totally nothing to do with his case.
Why should anyone sacrifice his $$ for this man in the hopes of a pipe dream of upwork changing their policies in a non subjective and collective affecting manner?
Show me the proof that this man has done this type of sacrifice for anyone else before?

Follow others as you wish. I and anyone that wants to succeed will take their own path to their own benefit.
You can wear your grey woollen socks and pretend to be able to change the world but you will not be able to do anything. Help yourself first before you are able to help others. No one wants to hurt their income because of one misfortunate person who has some friends with good standing blogs and some social media screamers.
Cases like these happen everyday. Saying nobody cares except those who stand nothing to lose like those bloggers while petitioning others is just fake.
Let those bloggers show their freelance accounts and terminate/stop using them and show that to us as proof if they are REAL, including you.
if not then dont ask others to do what you will not do

They have a saying in my country. Not every sheep has your leg. e.g. When he or she breaks it, yours is not unless you walk in their footsteps.

Stop pretending this person needs help. There are many many others needing help or assistance in this world and this man can clearly take care of his own and wet his own throat to feed himself. Go out in the streets and feed the poor with food or give them shelter in your own home if you do what you preach where your energy would be better spend than helping this man who can clearly and easily help himself.

Click to expand...

Nobody is talking about helping this guy, or participating in some sort of noble self-sacrifice. It is a well established fact that many large corporate policies and practices get changed for the sake of self-interest after a public media backlash. It is the internet weapon of our era and we should damn well use it.
It costs almost nothing to participate, but the gains from it can be substantial. Don't liken my point to any individual's needs or successes.

BlogPro said:

The issue is, that the internet is as disorganized as it gets. Several members having a membership to the same site, does not put them on the same side of the situation.

The issue is that if you refuse, there is always someone else out of the million other Freelancers who'll be more than ready to usurp that opportunity.

For instance, I lost around $800 a couple of days ago owing to a former BHW member, who first tried evading paying the second half of his payment post delivery and then on being called out went ahead and did a chargeback on his older payments. Does that mean I should abandon BHW and/or Paypal? Even if I do, will there be a dearth of people providing the same set of services as I am? Nope. Will any form of activity come to a standstill? Nope.

Since there is an acute lack of any union, there is never going to be a shortage of buyers or sellers on this platform. A uniform rebellion will be curbed before it even begins. Even Medium was forced to remove all his images, all this owing to a good PR machinery put in place.

I am by no means saying that the dude wasn't wronged, or that Upwork wasn't being completely unreasonable. But then the world doesn't stop here.

He whines in the post about losing business. When he, in fact, should've been actively soliciting for more.

That post will never make me stop buying on Upwork, neither will it deter any Freelancer who is looking for work. Times are tough and having a job is better than being broke.

We, as marketers, succumb to the several nuances put in place by Google - many being unreasonable as fuck, but still go ahead with our business. Do we abandon Google or for that matter, can we abandon Google?

Monopolies have existed since a long time. So unless there is someone who can come in and disrupt what Upwork is doing as a major player, things will remain how they are.

A mere post will do nothing.

Click to expand...

Your analogy does not equate to the given situation. If BHW = upwork, then you would probably sing a different tune if BHW banned you after you wrote a shit list report about the guy who stole your $800 including irrefutable evidence in the form of PM's on this very site.

The internet contains no consistent unions, only those which are united by a common interest. I am saying that if lots of people get screwed by a large entity/phenomena, these unions will form with a debilitating degree of success. Joining does not require any personal sacrifice, it only requires you attach consequences for those who have wronged the union. In this case to avoid using upwork where possible, and going out of your way to pay freelancers outside of it.
Even if you're not willing to do that, just spam some hate anonymously in their direction.

Or hell, if there is enough proven demand then start your own competitor to upwork. Let the free market and self-interest take over for the benefit of all.

But advocating complacency for the supposed sake pure self-interest? No, that's just misrepresenting the situation for nothing if not the sake of laziness.

I have used upwork for years. but since the fee change. I have cut back drastically.
Still looking for other options. I have a few former upwork people who i pay difrect via paypal.

JTrussles said:

Your analogy does not equate to the given situation. If BHW = upwork, then you would probably sing a different tune if BHW banned you after you wrote a shit list report about the guy who stole your $800 including irrefutable evidence in the form of PM's on this very site.

The internet contains no consistent unions, only those which are united by a common interest. I am saying that if lots of people get screwed by a large entity/phenomena, these unions will form with a debilitating degree of success. Joining does not require any personal sacrifice, it only requires you attach consequences for those who have wronged the union. In this case to avoid using upwork where possible, and going out of your way to pay freelancers outside of it.
Even if you're not willing to do that, just spam some hate anonymously in their direction.

Or hell, if there is enough proven demand then start your own competitor to upwork. Let the free market and self-interest take over for the benefit of all.

But advocating complacency for the supposed sake pure self-interest? No, that's just misrepresenting the situation for nothing if not the sake of laziness.

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For starters, my analogy was never meant to equate to the situation. You assumed as such. I clearly highlighted the context in the statement preceding it.

Now, coming to your second part. There is a situational crisis at play here. How would you decide on who was actually wronged by Upwork vs. someone who'd want to just take advantage of the situation for their own ulterior motives. Even in the case of this particular individual. He's crying foul over a supposed lost project, where he shows screenshots from client conversations and then his account being banned. But who here has verified the veracity of his claims? Add to that the fact that a representative from Upwork tried reaching out to him in the comments, and all he ended up with was getting condescending, snide remarks and overall being rebuked by the guy.

In Big Corp vs. Individuals (read David vs. Goliath), we're inherently programmed to automatically align ourselves with David. That may not be the case, always.

And me, advocating complacency for self-interest? We're talking about the livelihood of several other individuals, not all of whom are talented marketers to market their skills and gain clients. I'd rather have them work via Upwork, get my work done, pay them, pay the fee and call it a day. I don't see any complacency in that. I see a necessary evil and I see no way around it.

I love working with people and employ several freelancers through upwork and other sites. I have the utmost respect for them and if it doesn't go according to how I want it to go, we part ways amicably. I do this by being involved from the get go. Ensuring that nothing is wrong when they start. But that doesn't mean every employer is a great guy or every employee is a five-star employee. There are assholes on both sides of the spectrum.

Hating Upwork won't matter. Yes, a disruption will make a difference, but that will happen when it arrives.

For now, someone who got their account banned at a site with thousands of other members, whining about it on their blog - won't make a difference. The idea is to survive.

Not everything is a crusade. Not everyone is a crusader.

We could sit here debating semantics all day if you want. But the fact of the matter remains the same. This wouldn't so much as put a dent in Upwork's revenue, work-force or client-base. And I don't see why I shouldn't dip my fingers in the talent pool. The risks considered and all?