Do you think Billionaires should exist?

splishsplash said:

You.. Don't.. Understand.. Money..

You're saying if they "stay" a billionaire they are selfish.

So what do they do? Should Warren Buffet somehow try to liquidize his billions and give an equal share to the hungry?

Do you even know what most billionaires have done to help humanity?

Have you heard of the gates foundation?

Giving "cash" away to the poor is NOT how you help the poor.

Let's try to get a reality check.

Here's some things you can thank the billionaires for:-

Want to learn electronic engineering? You can do that with no money at home.

Want to learn about property and how to invest? Same.

Want to learn computer programming? Same.

Want to make money with programming at home? Same.

Want to start a shop and sell online.. Shopify, Stripe, paypal.. Damn those billionaires and their selfishness.

Want to do fuck all and just have a fun life at home? Check. World of Warcraft and endless games.

Want to learn about health and get fit? Check.

Want to be a freelance writer and make money? Check

Want to visit other countries but you don't have much money? Check. Cheap flights, airbnb, cheap hotels..

The list goes on.

Rewind 100 years and try any of those things. VERY hard.

What is this even about. Why are you even on blackhatworld. Go join some conspiracy, "the rich are evil" forum and you'll find likeminded people living in poverty blaming the rich for their inability to get off their lazy asses and improve themselves.





7 is why I say you do not understand money at *all*. Billionaires DO NOT own money. They own property, businesses, land, commodities. This is not money in a bank account.

8. See above. You need to go back 100 years and maybe you'd be more grateful for what we have now. Degrading our society lol. There's less random murders now than at any point in history. Humanity's history is violent, unenlightened and people had no opportunities.

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You are literally mad because someone has an opinion thats not meeting your expectations. Its funny because you are repeating one more thing once again. Look at my first answer to you if you want the second answer.

No, they don't need to just dump money on the poor to buy medicines and food, there are millions of other ways.

Why am I on BHW? to become a billionaire, so I can give to the poor and become millionaire



Have complains? Should they ban me from the forum?

BlueSnow said:

So many misunderstandings that I don't know where even to start. I will make points so it is easier to read.

1. I don't hate rich people. That's just your prejudice. I think that we should not have billionaires, so I hate rich people. Bill Gates is a great example. He is investing his money into others. Great guy. Or he should buy the Moon and don't care?

2. Stupid people will try often to earn money and probably some of them will succeed. But 98% will fall miserably. You will not read about them tho. If you are stupid you have less chance to be rich than a genius. But chances that you will try and fail are much much greater because some smart people will not even start, that part is true.

3. Will you be "lazy" or no can depend on so many things. It's not a decision in most of the cases. Some people are lazy just because they didn't have support in their childhood, so they don't believe in themselves. It's a matter of nerve paths (synapses) and how they are programmed in childhood. if you had supportive parents you will most probably have more confidence in your life and try more things. Even if you did not have parents at all you can learn to "fight" through life, even that is a better option than to have parents that don't believe in themselves and program you in the same way. Some people just don't believe in themselves because of rigid upbringing. They are "choosing" to stay passive through life, because they learned in the childhood that whatever they are doing is just not good enough.

4. Rich people are investing in solar because they have money and it will bring them money. In case we have a stronger middle class then common people will invest in some fonds too. They cant invest expensive tech. Cryptocurrencies are changing that. With crypto, people will be able to invest easier. There are already projects where you can invest even 5$. So many people cant invest because they don't have money for food, or for school, let alone investing.

5. You are more likely to become a millionaire if you are a healthy son of the millionaire from a western country, than if you are born in a poor African country, have low IQ and some genetic issues. In most cases that don't have to do with how talented, hard-working or smart you are, you can be just born as a billionaire, thats it.

6. We have much better chance to succeed as a society if rich people are ready to give away what they don't need to the talented people that have ideas, are ready to work, but don't have money.

7. We can't stop allowing people to earn as much money as they can, but we can start to educate masses that owning money you don't need is selfish, not something to be admired. People who are ready to give away their money for the sake of other people are real heroes (like Bill Gates), not people that are just rich.

8. We are advancing so fast because of human greed? It can be changed in a second. One press on a red button and we are advancing TOO FAST because of human greed, but there will be no one to confirm that. Are we advancing at all? In some parts yes, in some parts we are degrading our society.

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Firstly People are lazy and dont want to improve their life, all the information they need is online forget the entire Internet most of the info is just on one site "Youtube" people dont care to learn, ya you can blame your parents but at the end of the day when you grow up and become an adult is it your parents fault that you still dont want to improve yourself? I am raised by a single mother, my father passed away when i was 5 and i was even afraid to talk to my mother even at the age of 14, she would usually come home at 8 pm and then watch TV dinner and sleep there was no real communication between us, things i learned was on my own with friends online, no one said i should do this or i should not do that, i was wasting all my day on games and then youtube i even dropped out of my BBM coz i was playing games all day and night and i was not at all going to college, my attendance was like phone number everything in single digits but I started watching youtube started watching these speakers that say take action, and i built up myself just watching videos, before I used to watch only funny youtube videos and I would easily get bored when i used to watch something informative or politic but now I prefer watching those type of videos, you phase out your bad habbits little by little guess where I learned that from? youtube, people don't take responsibility and always blame someone else it may be parents their partners or family, kids their government but they don't look at themselves, No one owes you anything

If i make billions what's wrong if i give it to my children? i worked for it, the money is mine so is the decision to who i have to give the money too,

And rich people are talented, thats how they made their money, if you have a good idea there are rich people who invest in your idea for a % of the company idk if you knew something like this existed XD but if you have some entertainment talent well there is social media its free for everyone, i personally think sound cloud rappers are very bad and i even get headaches listening to them but there is a market for them and many have made millions, i don't understand what more support people need? do the rich have to hold their hands too?

Stupid people fail because they don't want to learn, stupidity is not set in stone you can learn things and grow your knowledge if people dont want too well i dont see how they being lazy and not learn be any of concern of the rich

Look if i want to buy the moon with the money i earned people should not have the right to question me,

you think being rich is easy? people who make something of themselves wark super hard, there is no days off to them, they need to keep learning nonstop and keep overcoming hurdles most rich people work day and night, they sacrifice everything to get to the next level, people need to admire that and aim for that if they want to succeed,

Most people surround themselves with dumb people just like them, they only concern themselves with a celebrity or sports or reality show or TV (do anyone even watch TV anymore?) well if you want to succeed join forums like this watch informative people join fb groups who want to succeed too, go to events know those people and become their friends, surround yourself with people with ambition then you will succeed even if you are a dumbass with IQ nearer to an ape than a human

Guess what my MOM who I love very much btw dint teach me this nor did my family or my friends I learned this watching and reading about successful people (not paid for anything apart from the internet bill)

I am in a 3rd world country my college when I dropped out of was a cheap college which cost less than 200$ per Year same with my school too, i dint go to good school, my highschool dint even have a ground and it was in a residential area between residential buildings it looks like a small apartment with 3 floors, if you go near my high school and if there was no board outside saying it was a school you will never in 1000 years guess its a school you will think its just a house

and rich people don't have millions and millions and billions of $ they have assets worth billions and hundreds of millions which are cash flow positive in most cases

only dumb people keep money in their bank account, you can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep, people like handouts

even if you are dumb as Patrick from spongebob you can make good money if you are competent

I think you are from a western country so you believe you have a right to everything and think your govt owes you and believe its their duty to help you which it is but lets get real only people who believe in fairy tails think the govt will do something for its people, I am from a 3rd world country and i know the govt wont do shit nor will a miracle be bestowed on me or my family, all i know is if i want to get anywhere in my life its upto me and me alone, no one is gonna help me why should they? what have i done to help them? no one owes me anything and even in the darkest of time i dont think its my rite to get help from people, you might say what if they help you and everyone can grow together, yea i would love that but i know this is not a book or a fairy tale or a movie

and once again its human nature to be greedy and exploit everything, you cant deny millions of years of evolution you can say otherwise but its the truth, dude humans exploit anything weaker than them including children's women's physically smaller person, animals, reptiles, this planet dude we even exploit microorganism to make medicines we cant even fing see them and we exploit them, that is the nature of humans and that ability to do whatever it takes has which has propelled us this far, now you say people with big ambition should be stopped coz they make lot of money?

BlueSnow said:

You are literally mad because someone has an opinion thats not meeting your expectations. Its funny because you are repeating one more thing once again. Look at my first answer to you if you want the second answer.

No, they don't need to just dump money on the poor to buy medicines and food, there are millions of other ways.

Why am I on BHW? to become a billionaire, so I can give to the poor and become millionaire



Have complains? Should they ban me from the forum?

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Its your rite to give away money if you want no one should have a say in it if you earned it just like that no one should have a say towards people who dont want to do that

let me guess my reply needs approval again, i wrote a very big reply few mins ago to you its waiting for approval, you might see it when someone approves it, why does my reply require approval? have i been a naughty boy?

It is okay for them to exist, but why does an individual need one billion dollars or more?

Titanlord said:

Its your rite to give away money if you want no one should have a say in it if you earned it just like that no one should have a say towards people who dont want to do that

let me guess my reply needs approval again, i wrote a very big reply few mins ago to you its waiting for approval, you might see it when someone approves it, why does my reply require approval? have i been a naughty boy?

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I cant, and I don't think it would be a good idea to forbid someone to have as much money as they want. In that sense, this world should be free. All im saying is that this planet will be a better place when people who are having more money than they need decide to give that money to the ones that are in need, instead of being driven by the inflated ego. People are like sheep, they are admiring people just because they are rich, it infates their ego, so everyone wants to be rich, even tho that's not good for the planet. I know, someone will tell me again that I don t understand the economy, but I do. That would be even better for themselves IMO, but thats their call. Its not an easy decision and certainly is counterintuitive. But its rewarding AF. Did you know that the happiest people on this planet (by job) are trainers who are training children? Because they are helping OTHER people to succeed. And because they are training children it's not so competitive, so it's not selfish, its not rat race. That's so rewarding for your state of being. To see other people happy because of you. To see sick people that are in pain feel better because of you. It's much better than owning anything.

We are just talking on the internet forum what is in our opinion good or bad. Expressing ideas that are not in line with the majority of people is a good thing in my point of view.

I don't understand the second part of your post.

Titanlord said:

Firstly People are lazy and dont want to improve their life, all the information they need is online forget the entire Internet most of the info is just on one site "Youtube" people dont care to learn, ya you can blame your parents but at the end of the day when you grow up and become an adult is it your parents fault that you still dont want to improve yourself? I am raised by a single mother, my father passed away when i was 5 and i was even afraid to talk to my mother even at the age of 14, she would usually come home at 8 pm and then watch TV dinner and sleep there was no real communication between us, things i learned was on my own with friends online, no one said i should do this or i should not do that, i was wasting all my day on games and then youtube i even dropped out of my BBM coz i was playing games all day and night and i was not at all going to college, my attendance was like phone number everything in single digits but I started watching youtube started watching these speakers that say take action, and i built up myself just watching videos, before I used to watch only funny youtube videos and I would easily get bored when i used to watch something informative or politic but now I prefer watching those type of videos, you phase out your bad habbits little by little guess where I learned that from? youtube, people don't take responsibility and always blame someone else it may be parents their partners or family, kids their government but they don't look at themselves, No one owes you anything

If i make billions what's wrong if i give it to my children? i worked for it, the money is mine so is the decision to who i have to give the money too,

And rich people are talented, thats how they made their money, if you have a good idea there are rich people who invest in your idea for a % of the company idk if you knew something like this existed XD but if you have some entertainment talent well there is social media its free for everyone, i personally think sound cloud rappers are very bad and i even get headaches listening to them but there is a market for them and many have made millions, i don't understand what more support people need? do the rich have to hold their hands too?

Stupid people fail because they don't want to learn, stupidity is not set in stone you can learn things and grow your knowledge if people dont want too well i dont see how they being lazy and not learn be any of concern of the rich

Look if i want to buy the moon with the money i earned people should not have the right to question me,

you think being rich is easy? people who make something of themselves wark super hard, there is no days off to them, they need to keep learning nonstop and keep overcoming hurdles most rich people work day and night, they sacrifice everything to get to the next level, people need to admire that and aim for that if they want to succeed,

Most people surround themselves with dumb people just like them, they only concern themselves with a celebrity or sports or reality show or TV (do anyone even watch TV anymore?) well if you want to succeed join forums like this watch informative people join fb groups who want to succeed too, go to events know those people and become their friends, surround yourself with people with ambition then you will succeed even if you are a dumbass with IQ nearer to an ape than a human

Guess what my MOM who I love very much btw dint teach me this nor did my family or my friends I learned this watching and reading about successful people (not paid for anything apart from the internet bill)

I am in a 3rd world country my college when I dropped out of was a cheap college which cost less than 200$ per Year same with my school too, i dint go to good school, my highschool dint even have a ground and it was in a residential area between residential buildings it looks like a small apartment with 3 floors, if you go near my high school and if there was no board outside saying it was a school you will never in 1000 years guess its a school you will think its just a house

and rich people don't have millions and millions and billions of $ they have assets worth billions and hundreds of millions which are cash flow positive in most cases

only dumb people keep money in their bank account, you can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep, people like handouts

even if you are dumb as Patrick from spongebob you can make good money if you are competent

I think you are from a western country so you believe you have a right to everything and think your govt owes you and believe its their duty to help you which it is but lets get real only people who believe in fairy tails think the govt will do something for its people, I am from a 3rd world country and I know the govt won't do shit nor will a miracle be bestowed on me or my family, all I know is if I want to get anywhere in my life its upto me and me alone, no one is gonna help me why should they? what have I done to help them? no one owes me anything and even in the darkest of time i dont think it's my rite to get help from people, you might say what if they help you and everyone can grow together, yea I would love that but I know this is not a book or a fairy tale or a movie

and once again its human nature to be greedy and exploit everything, you can't deny millions of years of evolution you can say otherwise but its the truth, dude humans exploit anything weaker than them including children's women's physically smaller person, animals, reptiles, this planet dude we even exploit microorganism to make medicines we can't even find see them and we exploit them, that is the nature of humans and that ability to do whatever it takes has which has propelled us this far, now you say people with big ambition should be stopped coz they make lot of money?

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1. People are programmable. Our brain is like a huge software. What you are as a person is how your synapses are programmed until you are 5 years of age. People are lazy? Yes, some are. There is a reason for that in their childhood. There are millions of reasons why someone is lazy or stupid or whatever, but it is rarely a decision, it is a state of being and it's not easy to change, even tho people that are not lazy will tell it is a piece of cake. It's like telling a depressed man to get out of their depression. I was like that. I used to tell people to just get out of their depression already. Now I know more. Even our "decisions" are all about chemistry.

2. You don't understand me. I don't give a fuck about the government, any government and I don't think they should regulate anything. I don't believe in over-regulation and I don't think that it sould be forbidden to people to own as much money as they want. I just think that we will live in a better world where empathy wins over selfishness. There are no reason for owning more than a billion other than pure greed. It should not be forbidden, but it's not good for anyone, including themselves.

3. People are ruthless. Yes, the majority of them are. But there are genuinely good people too. It's your call, will you be overprotective towards yourself and make a castle out of your being, or be the one who is trying to solve problems.

4. My apologies, because I catch myself sounding like I try to preach too much, but I'm just expressing my opinion and sometimes I tend to sound like a jerk while doing that because English is not my first langauge

Titanlord said:

and rich people don't have millions and millions and billions of $ they have assets worth billions and hundreds of millions which are cash flow positive in most cases

only dumb people keep money in their bank account, you can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep, people like handouts

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This is what BlueSnow is refusing to understand. He thinks billionaires are sitting with actual cash they can just give away.

He doesn't understand that they control assets, and the only way to "give away" is to liquidize those assets. BUT, how can that happen, if every billionaire is already liquidizing all their assets to give away? What will happen is there will be no buyers, so prices will go down, those billionaires are suddenly not billionaires because they've given away companies worth $100 billion for a few million because, well, there was no billionaires buying, only millionaires. Now the billionaires have a few million in cash, give it to the poor, and all the world's companies are run by random millionaires that won't have the money or experience to sustain or grow these companies, and the whole global economy will crash. Well done, BlueSnow

BlueSnow said:

All im saying is that this planet will be a better place when people who are having more money than they need decide to give that money to the ones that are in need, instead of being driven by the inflated ego. /QUOTE]

How?

Explain how this would work.

Who will run the companies that sustain the world? What will happen to the economy?

Physically, how, does someone worth $10 billion give away their billions? I am not mad, or trying to argue, I am asking you to think and explain to me how this would work.

Billionaires don't have cash, buddy. They have companies and property among other things. Most billionaires have companies, that's where their wealth is coming from.

When all the billionaires liquidize their assets, what happens to those companies? What happens to amazon? microsoft? google? Who runs them? Who controls them? If 1 single person shouldnt' have more than $1 bil in assets, you need some sort of system where a group control large companies. You're talking about a whole new system of government. A sort of democracy for companies. Essentially socialism on a global scale. Individuals can no longer control companies or create, they are forced to just be a part of a socialist workforce with a vote.

Please detail your plan for how the world's billionaires are going to distribute their wealth.

BlueSnow said:

2. There are no reason for owning more than a billion other than pure greed. It should not be forbidden, but it's not good for anyone, including themselves.

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So here, I am trying to narrow in again on this.

I ask the question, who then owns and controls the companies? What happens if I create an amazing company and it reaches $1bil valuation. You are saying this is bad for me, and I need to give up my dream because I'm greedy and have a big ego. I shouldn't continue to build an amazing company? I'm just a greedy person "owning" something?

What do I do? Sell half my company to some random person? Who pays though, because in this world there are no billionaires? Do you understand this. Think about the implications. There are NO billionaires. I cannot sell my company that easily. I have to chunk it up and sell it to 1000's of people. Do you think a company will grow in any meaningful way with 1000 owners all with a different vision?

Try to think intelligently about the solution you are proposing and its implications. I'm keen to hear your answers. Perhaps I am missing something.

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splishsplash said:

This is what BlueSnow is refusing to understand. He thinks billionaires are sitting with actual cash they can just give away.

He doesn't understand that they control assets, and the only way to "give away" is to liquidize those assets. BUT, how can that happen, if every billionaire is already liquidizing all their assets to give away? What will happen is there will be no buyers, so prices will go down, those billionaires are suddenly not billionaires because they've given away companies worth $100 billion for a few million because, well, there was no billionaires buying, only millionaires. Now the billionaires have a few million in cash, give it to the poor, and all the world's companies are run by random millionaires that won't have the money or experience to sustain or grow these companies, and the whole global economy will crash. Well done, BlueSnow

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I already replied you multiple times on this. You don't need to sell your asset. You can make a fond out of it and split your fortune to multiple people.

If there is a will there is a way. Usually.

I think they should. Not so sure about leftist scum and the states which rob people off using taxes.

qlithe said:

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Yes, this is the condition of our world now and for many people out there who are fighting for food and medicines its not funny at all.

BlueSnow said:

I already replied you multiple times on this. You don't need to sell your asset. You can make a fond out of it and split your fortune to multiple people.

If there is a will there is a way. Usually.

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What? Make a fund?

How exactly do you make a fund out of your company so you can spill your "fortune" to multiple people? Where is the money coming from? There needs to be actual money. Money in a company is either from profit generating activities, loans or share capital.

You need to read up on what a fund is.

It's a financial instrument created in order to allow people to invest in multiple assets.

Ie, I could create a BHW investment fund, which would contain a pool of let's say 10 service providers. If you invested $1000, I would then allocate that $1000 into the companies in the fund. Ie, a fund is used to put money IN to companies. Not to take money out and spread it to others. Money HAS to come from somewhere. If my company is valued at $1 bil and is making, let's say $50 mil turnover, then that $1bil DOES NOT EXIST.

Let me repeat that.

It does NOT exist.

It's "potential" money. It's a figure on the company, VALUING it.

I could take out a loan of $200 million against the value of my company. This is called asset-based finance.

Now, if I then give that $200 to the poor, I have to repay that to the bank plus interest by either saving up profit each year, thus crippling the growth of my company, or selling my company. Effectively ending the company as it exists in my vision.

Do you see?

A net worth of $10 billion is NOT money. It means you CONTROL $10 billion of assets. It's not about greed. It's about assigning control to someone who is able to manage it. Would you rather have 1 person control $10 billion of assets, or 100 million people each with a vote, and no knowledge about anything making decisions for that asset?

MaggiePale said:

But, at what cost? Jeff Bezos is a billionaire who can't even imagine how much wealth he has. Yet, his wealth is created on the blood and sweat of his employees.

Don't you think that they work hard?
Or are we still pushing the narative "If you work hard enough, you can be a billionaire too."? That narative is created by them, to make themselves even richer.
You work hard so they can hoard money.

If they paid their employees a fair share for their work they wouldn't be billionaires. But, the world would be a better place.
Their employees wouldn't have to stress over how will they pay for rent or food. And God forbid if some medical emergency occurs.
Yet, they would still have enough money to live comfortable.

So, yes. Billionaires shouldn't exist. Not at the cost of other people's lifes.

(Obligatory "English is not my native language, excuse any errors".)

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This doesn't make sense.

"The blood and sweat of their employees" is the way you see it

I see it as "They advertised for a job at a wage and someone accepted that". No one is forcing them to accept the job. They can be unemployed and get government benefits.

What's funny is that you don't realize most entrepreneurs are earning LESS money than their staff. They're putting that money back in the business to grow it.

But aside from that..

Let's say you decided to share all the profit with your staff.

Well, for starters companies that grow don't have much profit, so now they have to take a profit and stub growth to share with employees.

So you have a big company with 1000 employees, making $25 million profit per year. That's $25k extra per employee per year.

Now..

That company can't ever go public. Since investors won't make any money. Only employees.

It can't grow, since all profit is going to employees.

It's pointless to invest in, because well, you won't make any return, because all profit is going to employees who turn up at 9am, do some work, and go home at 5pm. No stress, no hassle. Meanwhile, you as the business owner have to deal with 24/7 stress and problems. You have to get sales, deal with unhappy clients, deal with tax, legalities and all the other hassles in business. And what do you get at the end of it? Nothing. All the profit goes to your employees, who will come and go, have no vested interest in the company and just do the bare minimum required to get their pay cheque, and for the first few months may thank you for the profit sharing, but after that they will EXPECT the higher wage, and if your profits go down, do you think they will offer to work evenings and weekends to help? Hell no. They will quit and get another job.

Sounds great.

Instead, financial compensation, does and SHOULD come in the form of responsibility and skill. If a million people can do a job, why would you pay a high wage? If only 10,000 people can do the job, and it requires years of education and experience, then you will pay a LOT more. Likewise, if a job requires a lot of responsibility, then it warrants higher compensation. If you invest your own money in a company, you take risk, so you get higher compensation if it works out. If you are the business owner you invest your time AND money into a business, so damn straight you get the lion's share of the reward.

People who think they want to make billions so they can retire are those who never make it.

People who focus on solving a big problem that can change millions of people's lives are those who make billions.

I am not going to dive into the legal or moral debate whether or not you should keep your hard-earned money, because I believe you should. But it just makes me sick there are ridiculous wealth out there posses by a single individual where there are children starving to death in the world. That´s just wrong!

I am not stating they have the answer but they surely are in an amazing position to make a difference.

• According to several articles, I just read. The top 26 richest people in the world have as much money as the bottom 50% of the people on this earth (3.8 BILLION PEOPLE!).
• Also, according to some charities, if all the billionaires in the world donate 1% of their wealth they can raise enough money to educate every single child no currently in school (262 MILLION CHILDREN).
• Oxfam said the wealth of more than 2,200 billionaires across the globe had increased by $900bn in 2018 – or $2.5bn a day.
• In the 10 years since the financial crisis, the number of billionaires has nearly doubled - Between 2017 and 2018 a new billionaire was created every two days.
  
• The world’s richest man, Jeff Bezos, the owner of Amazon, saw his fortune increase to $112bn. Just 1% of his fortune is equivalent to the whole health budget for Ethiopia, a country of 105 million people.
  
• According to separate data compiled by Bloomberg, the top 500 billionaires’ net worth grew 24% to $5.38 trillion in 2017

I am on the fence on how to approach this.

Billionaires should exist but I also believe they should be doing more to help humanity!

I believe billionaires

splishsplash said:

What? Make a fund?

How exactly do you make a fund out of your company so you can spill your "fortune" to multiple people? Where is the money coming from? There needs to be actual money. Money in a company is either from profit generating activities, loans or share capital.

You need to read up on what a fund is.

It's a financial instrument created in order to allow people to invest in multiple assets.

Ie, I could create a BHW investment fund, which would contain a pool of let's say 10 service providers. If you invested $1000, I would then allocate that $1000 into the companies in the fund. Ie, a fund is used to put money IN to companies. Not to take money out and spread it to others. Money HAS to come from somewhere. If my company is valued at $1 bil and is making, let's say $50 mil turnover, then that $1bil DOES NOT EXIST.

Let me repeat that.

It does NOT exist.

It's "potential" money. It's a figure on the company, VALUING it.

I could take out a loan of $200 million against the value of my company. This is called asset-based finance.

Now, if I then give that $200 to the poor, I have to repay that to the bank plus interest by either saving up profit each year, thus crippling the growth of my company, or selling my company. Effectively ending the company as it exists in my vision.

Do you see?

A net worth of $10 billion is NOT money. It means you CONTROL $10 billion of assets. It's not about greed. It's about assigning control to someone who is able to manage it. Would you rather have 1 person control $10 billion of assets, or 100 million people each with a vote, and no knowledge about anything making decisions for that asset?

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Bro, are you trying to become rich?

I don't know how old are you. Starting every post with "you don't know", "What?" and similar, even tho you even didn't read the original post carefully will not lead you very far. You are losing your credibility in the first few words of every post. Please be aware that I'm just skim-through your posts because I don't have time to read articles that are beginning with "You don't know how cleaver I and how stupid you are".

I don't know why I'm even replying to you, but ok.

When you have a fund, you share dividends.

But we don't need to go that far either.

You actually can sell your company and give away money. Yes, if now suddenly most of the people decide to sell their companies it will be a problem, but realistically it will never happen. Even if it happens, it will just devaluate the money, so fiat will worth more. You will be able to buy much more stuff for 100$ .

But, we are entering into the crypto era, where you will be able to invest as much as you can, even 5$ into any company, so the problem will be easily solved.

I'm asking you for details of how your system would work and you're resorting to personal attacks.

Saying "X does't know Y" isn't a personal attack. It's my belief, based on your posts that you don't understand money, currency, assets and economics. This isn't a personal attack. I am not saying you are incapable of understanding these or making any insinuations about your intelligence. I am simply saying that you do not understand these things. That is fair, no? You on the other hand are actually now making a personal attack saying I won't get far in life. This isn't helpful.

I have experience running real companies with offices, staff and investors. I have knowledge about money, currencies, economics, the banking system, investment and how these things work on a practical level.

I am trying to have a real discussion and dig into the details.

Ok, so.. Funds. Yes, in a fund people get dividends. When people invest in a fund, which contains a portfolio of companies, which fuels the growth of those companies, they get returns. You are proposing that everyone gets dividends without investing. Ok, fair enough. Now, how do companies go about raising money? I have a new company, some software, that solves some problem. I have built a working prototype but I don't have the money to take it further. I need investors. How do I get investors when investors will get the same returns as everyone else? You're saying we're entering into the era of crypto. I'll discuss that in a second, but let's say everyone can then invest $5. Why would anyone invest anything when they will get exactly the same returns? Everyone is getting dividends from every company in the world anyway.

What happens in this situation is money won't flow correctly. People will just consume and buy silly things and money will go to all the wrong places. Drugs and other easily produced things that don't require innovation or capital will be the only businesses that thrive. Businesses that need to research and build new innovative products won't be able to exist.

Now, as for crypto.

If every billionaire were to start selling his shares, and fiat money devalues, crypto would also devalue. Crypto is no different from fiat in this sense. It's not tied to any physical assets. The value of crypto is based on how many people want it. Nothing more. Bitcoin is near useless right now, but it's inflated because people consider it valuable. You can't actually spend it in many places. Shares in companies could be sold for any crypto currency. It doesn't matter what is used, the problem would be EVERYONE would have to be selling their shares so they have something they can give away to the lazy self-entitled masses who have spent their life consuming what the billionaires create. Ie, this means that there are NO buyers at the higher prices, so prices DROP. They drop in USD. They drop in gold, they drop in bitcoin.

And investing $5 in a company won't help that company grow. If I want to create some awesome SEO software, $5 will buy me a coffee. What about my software engineers and designers? My advertising costs? How will I pay these? How will I start a company. We don't have facebook or google anymore. Just some form of government controlled search engine, so there's no opportunities to make money online. You just have to take your standard dividends from whatever companies are left. This just doesn't work on so many levels. If you can try to understand the concepts I'm explaining to you. You will end up in a world where there's no opportunity, no happiness, no creativity. People just wake up, eat, do some basic work and sleep.

BlueSnow said:

Bro, are you trying to become rich?

I don't know how old are you. Starting every post with "you don't know", "What?" and similar, even tho you even didn't read the original post carefully will not lead you very far. You are losing your credibility in the first few words of every post. Please be aware that I'm just skim-through your posts because I don't have time to read articles that are beginning with "You don't know how cleaver I and how stupid you are".

I don't know why I'm even replying to you, but ok.

When you have a fund, you share dividends.

But we don't need to go that far either.

You actually can sell your company and give away money. Yes, if now suddenly most of the people decide to sell their companies it will be a problem, but realistically it will never happen. Even if it happens, it will just devaluate the money, so fiat will worth more. You will be able to buy much more stuff for 100$ .

But, we are entering into the crypto era, where you will be able to invest as much as you can, even 5$ into any company, so the problem will be easily solved.

Click to expand...

Also, you are saying that extremely poor and hungry people are the problem of billionaires in developed countries. How?

Almost no one is starving in most developed countries. There are jobs, there is food, there is government support. People who want to work, can work and get food. It is THOSE people who are being greedy. They want MORE. It's not enough to have a 1 bedroom apartment and a 42" TV. They want a 100" super mega TV, with 5 consoles, and a super pc, and a sports car blah blah.

The problems in undeveloped countries where people are starving and dont' have access to running water is problems of that country. Their government. What are some billionaires going to do to fix even 1 single undeveloped country? Do you know what resources would be required, including logistics to feed an entire nation let alone all the starving nations on earth? Trillions. The only way for change to happen there is for their governmental systems to change and the country to develop, advance and build up. Start producing and building. This isn't something giving away some money will help with. Even the might of the US government couldn't change countries in the middle east. What hope do a few billionaires have?

splishsplash said:

I'm asking you for details of how your system would work and you're resorting to personal attacks.

Saying "X does't know Y" isn't a personal attack. It's my belief, based on your posts that you don't understand money, currency, assets and economics. This isn't a personal attack. I am not saying you are incapable of understanding these or making any insinuations about your intelligence. I am simply saying that you do not understand these things. That is fair, no? You on the other hand are actually now making a personal attack saying I won't get far in life. This isn't helpful.

I have experience running real companies with offices, staff and investors. I have knowledge about money, currencies, economics, the banking system, investment and how these things work on a practical level.

I am trying to have a real discussion and dig into the details.

Ok, so.. Funds. Yes, in a fund people get dividends. When people invest in a fund, which contains a portfolio of companies, which fuels the growth of those companies, they get returns. You are proposing that everyone gets dividends without investing. Ok, fair enough. Now, how do companies go about raising money? I have a new company, some software, that solves some problem. I have built a working prototype but I don't have the money to take it further. I need investors. How do I get investors when investors will get the same returns as everyone else? You're saying we're entering into the era of crypto. I'll discuss that in a second, but let's say everyone can then invest $5. Why would anyone invest anything when they will get exactly the same returns? Everyone is getting dividends from every company in the world anyway.

What happens in this situation is money won't flow correctly. People will just consume and buy silly things and money will go to all the wrong places. Drugs and other easily produced things that don't require innovation or capital will be the only businesses that thrive. Businesses that need to research and build new innovative products won't be able to exist.

Now, as for crypto.

If every billionaire were to start selling his shares, and fiat money devalues, crypto would also devalue. Crypto is no different from fiat in this sense. It's not tied to any physical assets. The value of crypto is based on how many people want it. Nothing more. Bitcoin is near useless right now, but it's inflated because people consider it valuable. You can't actually spend it in many places. Shares in companies could be sold for any crypto currency. It doesn't matter what is used, the problem would be EVERYONE would have to be selling their shares so they have something they can give away to the lazy self-entitled masses who have spent their life consuming what the billionaires create. Ie, this means that there are NO buyers at the higher prices, so prices DROP. They drop in USD. They drop in gold, they drop in bitcoin.

And investing $5 in a company won't help that company grow. If I want to create some awesome SEO software, $5 will buy me a coffee. What about my software engineers and designers? My advertising costs? How will I pay these? How will I start a company? We don't have facebook or google anymore. Just some form of government-controlled search engine, so there's no opportunities to make money online. You just have to take your standard dividends from whatever companies are left. This just doesn't work on so many levels. If you can try to understand the concepts I'm explaining to you. You will end up in a world where there's no opportunity, no happiness, no creativity. People just wake up, eat, do some basic work and sleep.

Click to expand...

It doesn't matter in this case do I consider your post a personal attack or not. What I'm saying is that if you are starting your post with "You don't know" you are actually losing attention from the person you are writing. I will go into the depth of that only if you insist. If you want to grab someone's attention starting with offensive sentences is not a very good idea Am I doing it right now? Yes. Sorry. But, maybe it's a good example.

Cryptocurrencies, altho the name can be misleading, are not just currencies. With crypto, you can be a shareholder of a company just by buying a particular currency (not Bitcoin). So you don't need anything else, no contracts, no minimum investment or anything else. Someone from Africa or Japan can buy for example 0.00001% or 100% of the ownership in some solar electricity company from South California, just by buying their tokens. Without hustle, without leaving their armchair, much more people will be investors. 5$ is just an example, what I've tried to say is that anyone will be able to invest, even some 18-year-old kid from Uzbekistan. There are many people that are not investors just because of its a hustle and pain in the ass and just don't like papers and lawyers and so on and is not cheap.

Let's say Google is worth 1T USD (just an example). All you need is 1T tokens, anyone can buy or sell those tokens on a free market. Anyone can buy 100% or 0.00000001% of the company and have adequate rights in participating in the management and everything is managed by smart contracts and that condition cannot be changed without turning off the internet in the entire world. It will be so easy to invest or sell companies or shares and get dividends.

I don't see Bitcoin as useless. Now it looks like useless only because of the scaling issue (transaction speed 4-5 tx per second is laughable for any business). But with scaling issues solved and it will happen in the next 5 years for sure (BTC or some other project it doesn't matter) maybe earlier, there will be no reason for fiat money anymore. All you will need is a smartphone to pay anything, to store any data without any risk of losing, deleting or changing anything. You can automate any paying process (like paying out dividends based on the per cent of shares you hold). BUT, most importantly, there will be no more reason for tax services to existing anymore. Tax will be paid with every transaction automatically. The Government will receive its share from every single transaction without moving a finger. All they need to do is to make a cryptocurrency and to apply smart contract that will execute everything automatically. They will not miss that opportunity. Why would they?

To return to the theme. So we have sociological and technical part of the issue. I'm more interested in the sociological part. With technical part is kinda hard to predict the exact outcome and I am not advocating that every billionaire should dump their money right now, without thinking through it. First, do no harm. But I believe that we need a good plan to get two extremes (hungry people and people with 1000 rooms houses) closer because it will benefit society as a whole so much and it ill be beneficial for both extremes.

But ultimately, in an ideal scenario, with 100% unselfish billionaires (lol) I am sure that with their resources and their power, with their abilities, they are able to find a good way to make the more healthy economy, more middle class-oriented and connected society. The first step would be for us and them to recognize the greed in holding assets just for themselves.

splishsplash said:

Also, you are saying that extremely poor and hungry people are the problem of billionaires in developed countries. How?

Almost no one is starving in most developed countries. There are jobs, there is food, there is government support. People who want to work, can work and get food. It is THOSE people who are being greedy. They want MORE. It's not enough to have a 1 bedroom apartment and a 42" TV. They want a 100" super mega TV, with 5 consoles, and a super pc, and a sports car blah blah.

The problems in undeveloped countries where people are starving and dont' have access to running water is problems of that country. Their government. What are some billionaires going to do to fix even 1 single undeveloped country? Do you know what resources would be required, including logistics to feed an entire nation let alone all the starving nations on earth? Trillions. The only way for change to happen there is for their governmental systems to change and the country to develop, advance and build up. Start producing and building. This isn't something giving away some money will help with. Even the might of the US government couldn't change countries in the middle east. What hope do a few billionaires have?

Click to expand...

So it's ok if some 5-year Chinese old die from starvation, but it's not ok for some 5-year old US kid to die from starvation.

Who cares about governments, it's a kid.