Client making false claims
- Thread starter artizhay
- Start date
Cas87
Regular Member
- Mar 5, 2012
- 289
- 132
This..
I'm not 100% on the legal things over there, but surely it would cost him more than $1000 to take you to court? for something of which you have evidence to suggest he is lying lmao..
the guy would be just short of retarded to pursue this.. sounds to me like he is desperate for the cash.. the best thing you can do is be straight with him, don't er and ar about it, tell him to get fu*ked (politely)
- Mar 10, 2010
- 42,697
- 107,142
Total bluff on his part here... "damages, court costs and lawyer's fees" - guy watches too much TV.
The malware thing is trying to get you scared... hopefully he does sue you and Judge Judy contacts you to mediate... the guy would walk out of there eating his hat.
I would sweat this as much as I would sweat the sun rising in the west... ain,t going to happen.
Beats
Registered Member
- Feb 28, 2012
- 58
- 23
I honestly think this guy is just bluffing. He won't do anything. He is just a scam artist who was out to scam you from the start. He probably thought he could take advantage of you since you are so young. Guys like these probably make a living out of scamming other people and won't actually take legal action. Just empty threats to scare you. It may be difficult to get the money he owes you so maybe you can cut your losses there since you have no written contract. Under no circumstances should you just give him the money. Then he will win and just go about doing the same things to other people. Even though it's tough you have to stand up to bullies like these to show them you can't be messed around with. As you get older you will meet many more people like this. You need to start learning to handle this kind of stuff now. It's all part of becoming an adult. If you just settle down and get pushed around you're never going to learn to defend yourself in the future. I guarantee you that you will meet many more people like this in any line of business so learn to deal with it NOW not later.
W9go
Elite Member
- May 16, 2011
- 5,841
- 1,308
i would recommend not to pay ....
if you really go to court - which i dont think - and you can prove that you have done work according the agreement - you will not loose and since he anyway paid a part and there are 600$ open i guess it is nearly impossible that you have to pay back the whole amount there.
i am not for the us and dont know the rules there but stuff like Lawyer and court costs ...he cant be sue you for that in advance. only after winning in court.
but as you said it is a lot of mental stress - and the question is is worth the money. depending on yourself how good you can handle stuff like that you should decide if you pay and get rid of the mental stress or not.
if you really go to court - which i dont think - and you can prove that you have done work according the agreement - you will not loose and since he anyway paid a part and there are 600$ open i guess it is nearly impossible that you have to pay back the whole amount there.
i am not for the us and dont know the rules there but stuff like Lawyer and court costs ...he cant be sue you for that in advance. only after winning in court.
but as you said it is a lot of mental stress - and the question is is worth the money. depending on yourself how good you can handle stuff like that you should decide if you pay and get rid of the mental stress or not.
MidKnight
Junior Member
- Jun 22, 2011
- 170
- 49
Alright, my take on this is that the guy is just blowing smoke to get his money from you, most likely cause he's broke. If he does take you to court, it's true that he might try to raise it as high as $5001, but now you can counter that.
As you quoted from his e-mail to you, "If we do not get our money back in 7 working days from April 4, 2012 we will be forced to turn this over to our legal council and sue you for damages, court costs, and lawyers fees. $1325.00 is due now and we demand payment.", this is what he intends to charge. If he claims it's higher, you now have paper evidence it's not. Court costs and Lawyer fees don't come into the mix until after the verdict is reached, so he can't sue you for that bit.
You have proof that 14 out of 15 accusations are false, and the 15th is not yet confirmed, thus the guy has nothing to sue you for as of yet. He is trying to scare you into giving in, thinking that threat of lawsuit would be enough to make you comply with him, even if he has nothing. For all you know, this "new designer" as you put it, might have suggested it in the first place to him, just so they can earn the guy's trust and cash.
While you I know you don't have the time to deal with legal issues, claiming to countersue might just get the guy to calm down and make an agreement.
Just my take on this.
~MidKnight
As you quoted from his e-mail to you, "If we do not get our money back in 7 working days from April 4, 2012 we will be forced to turn this over to our legal council and sue you for damages, court costs, and lawyers fees. $1325.00 is due now and we demand payment.", this is what he intends to charge. If he claims it's higher, you now have paper evidence it's not. Court costs and Lawyer fees don't come into the mix until after the verdict is reached, so he can't sue you for that bit.
You have proof that 14 out of 15 accusations are false, and the 15th is not yet confirmed, thus the guy has nothing to sue you for as of yet. He is trying to scare you into giving in, thinking that threat of lawsuit would be enough to make you comply with him, even if he has nothing. For all you know, this "new designer" as you put it, might have suggested it in the first place to him, just so they can earn the guy's trust and cash.
While you I know you don't have the time to deal with legal issues, claiming to countersue might just get the guy to calm down and make an agreement.
Just my take on this.
~MidKnight
Nigel Farage
BANNED
- Feb 8, 2012
- 565
- 1,502
The best defense is a good offense. Take his ass to small claims court. You don't owe him money, he owes you money. In Texas, verbal contracts are binding, and judges are given broad powers as far as interpreting what exactly was contracted in the verbal exchange. The notion that some douchebag can hide behind the absence of a contract is bullshit. Also, here in Texas, even if you fail to win over the details of your contractual agreement, you still have recourse under the Fair Labor laws. In case you are wondering, these are the laws that (for example) protect illegal immigrants from being screwed out of their wages. It's a crime to have someone work for you and then fail to pay them. So, at some point, this could turn into a criminal matter for Mr. Douchebag to defend against, and he sure as fuck isn't going to be willing to face that, because in that situation, "your" attorneys are the prosecutors, and he is required to pay for his own legal defense. I figure it would cost him at least $2,000 to pay for an attorney to keep his ass out of jail if you filed charges against him for "Theft of Services". But that's a less-likely option, but still available. In terms of the civil dispute, for about $75.00 you make your case in front of a "judge" (in my county/state it's a justice of the peace) that has broad powers in terms of admission of evidence. Think Judge Judy or any other popular "court" TV show.
Going to small claims court would be a wonderful learning experience. Chances are pretty good you'll be there again, so there's no point in delaying the inevitable. Giving in to this douchebag is an indelible mark "LOSER" on your internal permanent record, and you don't need that, particularly this early in the game.
I called him a douchebag btw, because a guy with "plenty of money" that first hires teenagers, then tries to screw them out of their money is the very definition of the word "douchebag". Whatever his gripes might be, even if they are legitimate, he accepted them in advance when he hired you, given your age and (I assume) lack of experience. The J.P. is going to see it this way too, so when he tries to go down his 15 point list, I'm sure the J.P. will cut his nuts off and feed them to him in front of the entire court.
The fact that he has "plenty of money" is a good thing, because after you get your judgement, either he pays or at some point Sheriff's Deputy's show up at his house and/or place of business and start seizing property until they approximate the value of the judgement, meaning they'll take Mr. Monied Douchebag's plasma TV off the wall, while his fat wife stands in the Dining Room wailing in horror and embarrassment. Bring a video camera, upload the video and set-up ad-sense, btw. Also bring a bucket of KFC. His wife will blow you for an extra-crispy thigh and a drumstick, and thus your revenge will be complete.
Oh, and you can get court costs and sometimes damages. Court costs as in filing fees, but also compensation for the time that it takes to prepare for and file a suit vs. Mr. Douchebag. Make certain you bill for this time at the same rate you would bill for doing your professional work, as the time you spent playing touch-pee-pee with Mr. Douchebag is time you can't spend earning your money. So, if you are billing at $40 an hour, that's the rate you sue for when trying to recover the value of the number of hours it takes to file. One way of describing this is "opportunity cost". Also include driving time & gas, time spent on the phone, time consulting with experts on the best course of action, etc... Estimate high and chances are pretty good you get most or all of it.
Other people have made effort at communicating this last point, and I'll try it in my own way. This is a cut-throat world, and predators take advantage of weakness, and the only thing they understand is fear. As Machiavelli said, fear isn't the best way to rule people, but it's the cheapest and most efficient. This is the perfect opportunity to let the entire world that you are no one to fuck with. Failing to do this is an open invitation to the next douchebag to try the same thing. In order to prevent that, you must punish this douchebag, and leave his bloodied corpse hanging from a tree just outside of town, as a public statement to anyone else that might think about screwing with you.
The alternative is to cave, and that sets a precedent for losing within yourself. The next time something like this happens, it will be easier for you to give-in, as you've already done it once before.
Going to small claims court would be a wonderful learning experience. Chances are pretty good you'll be there again, so there's no point in delaying the inevitable. Giving in to this douchebag is an indelible mark "LOSER" on your internal permanent record, and you don't need that, particularly this early in the game.
I called him a douchebag btw, because a guy with "plenty of money" that first hires teenagers, then tries to screw them out of their money is the very definition of the word "douchebag". Whatever his gripes might be, even if they are legitimate, he accepted them in advance when he hired you, given your age and (I assume) lack of experience. The J.P. is going to see it this way too, so when he tries to go down his 15 point list, I'm sure the J.P. will cut his nuts off and feed them to him in front of the entire court.
The fact that he has "plenty of money" is a good thing, because after you get your judgement, either he pays or at some point Sheriff's Deputy's show up at his house and/or place of business and start seizing property until they approximate the value of the judgement, meaning they'll take Mr. Monied Douchebag's plasma TV off the wall, while his fat wife stands in the Dining Room wailing in horror and embarrassment. Bring a video camera, upload the video and set-up ad-sense, btw. Also bring a bucket of KFC. His wife will blow you for an extra-crispy thigh and a drumstick, and thus your revenge will be complete.
Oh, and you can get court costs and sometimes damages. Court costs as in filing fees, but also compensation for the time that it takes to prepare for and file a suit vs. Mr. Douchebag. Make certain you bill for this time at the same rate you would bill for doing your professional work, as the time you spent playing touch-pee-pee with Mr. Douchebag is time you can't spend earning your money. So, if you are billing at $40 an hour, that's the rate you sue for when trying to recover the value of the number of hours it takes to file. One way of describing this is "opportunity cost". Also include driving time & gas, time spent on the phone, time consulting with experts on the best course of action, etc... Estimate high and chances are pretty good you get most or all of it.
Other people have made effort at communicating this last point, and I'll try it in my own way. This is a cut-throat world, and predators take advantage of weakness, and the only thing they understand is fear. As Machiavelli said, fear isn't the best way to rule people, but it's the cheapest and most efficient. This is the perfect opportunity to let the entire world that you are no one to fuck with. Failing to do this is an open invitation to the next douchebag to try the same thing. In order to prevent that, you must punish this douchebag, and leave his bloodied corpse hanging from a tree just outside of town, as a public statement to anyone else that might think about screwing with you.
The alternative is to cave, and that sets a precedent for losing within yourself. The next time something like this happens, it will be easier for you to give-in, as you've already done it once before.
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agente808
Regular Member
- Aug 23, 2009
- 458
- 200
Most likely the guy was really just trying to keep from having to pay you the rest of the money he owed you - and it worked - now instead of you trying to get money from him, he's got you on the defensive... and you are no longer trying to charge him the rest of what he owes you.
Also - if he already has a "new designer" looking at what you designed - he's keeping what you made, therefor he has to pay for it. - If you were to give him a refund, legally he would have to destroy all copies of any work you did for him - and it doesn't' sound like that's his plan.
He is taking advantage of you cause you're young, and I am sure you would not want to - but have you considered talking to your parents (or to your friend's parents or some other trusted relative)? Talking to an older adult will make the guy realize he's not just pushing around a couple of kids, and he will probably back off.
There is ZERO chance he would win a claim against you in court, and I seriously doubt he would even try. He is bluffing, trying to see if he can get anything out of you.
Make a decision about what you want to happen (he pays you what he owes, or you both keep what you have and go your separate ways). Then write him a polite, but firm letter stating how things are going to work. Please have an older adult help (an adult with legal or business experience would be best).
Then do not continue to communicate with him more than absolutely necessary.
Don't give any money back, don't offer to give any money back.
Best of luck!
Also - if he already has a "new designer" looking at what you designed - he's keeping what you made, therefor he has to pay for it. - If you were to give him a refund, legally he would have to destroy all copies of any work you did for him - and it doesn't' sound like that's his plan.
He is taking advantage of you cause you're young, and I am sure you would not want to - but have you considered talking to your parents (or to your friend's parents or some other trusted relative)? Talking to an older adult will make the guy realize he's not just pushing around a couple of kids, and he will probably back off.
There is ZERO chance he would win a claim against you in court, and I seriously doubt he would even try. He is bluffing, trying to see if he can get anything out of you.
Make a decision about what you want to happen (he pays you what he owes, or you both keep what you have and go your separate ways). Then write him a polite, but firm letter stating how things are going to work. Please have an older adult help (an adult with legal or business experience would be best).
Then do not continue to communicate with him more than absolutely necessary.
Don't give any money back, don't offer to give any money back.
Best of luck!
artizhay
BANNED
- Nov 21, 2010
- 1,867
- 1,340
If he does sue us, we will of course pursue the $675, but you are right in that we are not going to push the indebted amount any further than needed because it is not a huge loss to us and we don't want to stir up any trouble more than necessary.
I'm not sure if he really has a new designer or if they have the files, but I doubt they do because he cancelled hosting about 2 weeks ago and he doesn't know what FTP or cPanel is, though I'm sure any designer could get these details for him through our hosting platform. However, if he has the files and the new designer can interpret PHP, or even just upload a copy of the files and SQL elsewhere, he will see that their claims of unfinished work or work not done to specifications are very false. If he doesn't actually have a designer, then all work was destroyed because he cancelled hosting and I know for sure he doesn't know how to backup the files.
If he does pursue this any further, I will of course get help from my parents. I keep much of my personal details away from clients, so he likely thinks we're just two kids running some rinky dink operation (though we always meet our clients in high-end places we have access to in order to exude a sense of professionalism in light of our age; psychological stuff), and doesn't know we both come from affluent families who can hire any lawyer we may need.
We have sent numerous contact requests so we will let those pend for a while, but we will start writing a letter.
I'm not sure if he really has a new designer or if they have the files, but I doubt they do because he cancelled hosting about 2 weeks ago and he doesn't know what FTP or cPanel is, though I'm sure any designer could get these details for him through our hosting platform. However, if he has the files and the new designer can interpret PHP, or even just upload a copy of the files and SQL elsewhere, he will see that their claims of unfinished work or work not done to specifications are very false. If he doesn't actually have a designer, then all work was destroyed because he cancelled hosting and I know for sure he doesn't know how to backup the files.
If he does pursue this any further, I will of course get help from my parents. I keep much of my personal details away from clients, so he likely thinks we're just two kids running some rinky dink operation (though we always meet our clients in high-end places we have access to in order to exude a sense of professionalism in light of our age; psychological stuff), and doesn't know we both come from affluent families who can hire any lawyer we may need.
We have sent numerous contact requests so we will let those pend for a while, but we will start writing a letter.
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KillerHeck
Regular Member
- Apr 12, 2011
- 240
- 451
I had a similar experience in the past and trust me... DON'T PAY HIM BACK... no one is going to sue you for $1325, especially if he owns you money too!
Nigel Farage
BANNED
- Feb 8, 2012
- 565
- 1,502
If you designed that site, login, change the password(s) and lock him out. Then copy/download the site, and then delete his copy. That's your intellectual property, and you own all of it until he pays for all of it.
Who's name is the domain-name registered under?
Who's name is the domain-name registered under?