Buyer is Claiming Unauthorized Payment - Help!

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cjmo75

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I'm just looking for some advice from the BHW members. Here's the situation:

I made a sale of a $17 MRR product last night.

The buyer has now filed a claim with Paypal that the payment was made without here authorization.

I have the log from E-Junkie that shows the time of purchase, the time of download, the IP address that the buyer came from to download, and basically a bunch of other info.

I have sent all of that to Paypal.

It's also interesting to note that I just put this site up yesterday, so it's not like people had time to come in and try to pull a scam (why would they)?

How could someone accidentally make a purchase through Paypal? You have to hit "pay now" like three times.

Is it possible that someone else used her credit card numbers or Paypal account to make the purchase?

What are my chances of keeping the money?

I think this is just a well educated person that knows that Paypal won't refund digital products and is just trying to get a freebie.

Also, I have evidence that the file was downloaded and from what IP.

Please weigh in.
 
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This could be hacked paypal account or the person could be trying to cheat paypal. If you are going to sell digital stuff online this is just part of the game. I get 1% unauthorized payments. There is nothing to worry about. Forget that $17 and look forward. Paypal will not do anything. They will just refund him the $17 and they will not do any investigation even if you send them everything you got.
 
zverr said:
This could be hacked paypal account or the person could be trying to cheat paypal. If you are going to sell digital stuff online this is just part of the game. I get 1% unauthorized payments. There is nothing to worry about. Forget that $17 and look forward. Paypal will not do anything. They will just refund him the $17 and they will not do any investigation even if you send them everything you got.
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It could be hacked Paypal, I thought about that. It's just strange that I only put the site up yesterday and started sending traffic to it and it wasn't even indexed.

Guess that doesn't mean a hacker couldn't have found it.

It just seems like someone who knows that filing a regular dispute won't get them their money back so they are going this route.

I'm not worried about the $17, it's just the principle of it. I can't stand people who do shit like this.
 
i also interested in this, because i've never ever won an unauthorized payment claim on paypal
i did the exact same things, what you mention, not once, not twice but in many cases
i sent the copy of the email what you receive from e-junkie after the purchase with the customer's IP and a bunch of other things and guess what...i lost all of the claims from this kind, unfortunately it seems to be a surefire way to get your money back, if you buy digital products and the customers (scammers) are perfectly aware of that

one solution (it was said here quite a few times before): if you also send your digital item to the customer on a CD for example, this way you'll have tracking number, but it's just doesn't worth it, if you sell low price items

so i wish you good luck, but i hardly think you can win this claim
 
HoNeYBiRD said:
i also interested in this, because i've never ever won an unauthorized payment claim on paypal
i did the exact same things, what you mention, not once, not twice but in many cases
i sent the copy of the email what you receive from e-junkie after the purchase with the customer's IP and a bunch of other things and guess what...i lost all of the claims from this kind, unfortunately it seems to be a surefire way to get your money back, if you buy digital products and the customers (scammers) are perfectly aware of that

one solution (it was said here quite a few times before): if you also send your digital item to the customer on a CD for example, this way you'll have tracking number, but it's just doesn't worth it, if you sell low price items

so i wish you good luck, but i hardly think you can win this claim
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I have had problems getting my money back even when it was a shipment of an actual DVD. The seller just said that they've sent the item (they didn't even provide a tracking number) and GayPal did shit to verify that. I never received the DVD, lost the money and my trust in GayPal.
 
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There's nothing you can do ..it is out of your hands..If the buyer just claimed the unauthorized payment for no reason and it wasnt hacked then you will get your money back..If it was hacked..well than your just screwed out of $17 man
 
renarssilters said:
I have had problems getting my money back even when it was a shipment of an actual DVD. The seller just said that they've sent the item (they didn't even provide a tracking number) and GayPal did shit to verify that. I never received the DVD, lost the money and my trust in GayPal.
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don't get me wrong, but this is good, because we're the sellers here :)
 
oyeah22 said:
There's nothing you can do ..it is out of your hands..If the buyer just claimed the unauthorized payment for no reason and it wasnt hacked then you will get your money back..If it was hacked..well than your just screwed out of $17 man
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i don't think they actually check if the account was hacked or not (i sent them countless IP logs and not even one claim i won from this kind), they really don't give a shit, just take your hard earned money and give back to your "honest" customer who has just got your product for free

you said it well: "There's nothing you can do ..it is out of your hands..If the buyer just claimed the unauthorized payment for no reason"
 
HoNeYBiRD said:
don't get me wrong, but this is good, because we're the sellers here :)
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I meant a genuine case where the seller is a person that I know. The sucker just didn't sent the item out. We're BH, but we're not thieves, right?
 
Virtual items are not protected through Pay-pal, if they reverse from credit card, you lose.
If they authorized on there original IP, you will win it.
 
I think you just have to take it on the chin Cjmo. Your intuition may well be spot on but you're unlikely to win any claim for an unauthorized payment.

As an eBay seller, I've experienced so much crap from buyers that I've just learned to deal with it as an occupational hazard.
 
renarssilters said:
I meant a genuine case where the seller is a person that I know. The sucker just didn't sent the item out. We're BH, but we're not thieves, right?
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admittedly we're not thieves here, and i'm not sure if paypal should decide once again, they wouldn't decide to your favor...which would have been the right decision for the first time
what you can recognize: there's absolutely no consistency what paypal do, how they're dealing with claims
but there's a well-marked consistency with unauthorized payment claims: you lose it anyway
 
HoNeYBiRD said:
admittedly we're not thieves here, and i'm not sure if paypal should decide once again, they wouldn't decide to your favor...which would have been the right decision for the first time
what you can recognize: there's absolutely no consistency what paypal do, how they're dealing with claims
but there's a well-marked consistency with unauthorized payment claims: you lose it anyway
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True. Now, what's messing around in my head, is why the hell PayPal is calling a DVD, an actual disc, a non-tanglible item? This is why they refused to refund the money. They just said that a disc (DVD/CD) is not tangible and is classified as digital goods. Well, as long as I can take the DVD in my hands, it is pretty much tangible. Stupid GayPal.
 
HoNeYBiRD said:
i don't think they actually check if the account was hacked or not (i sent them countless IP logs and not even one claim i won from this kind), they really don't give a shit, just take your hard earned money and give back to your "honest" customer who has just got your product for free

you said it well: "There's nothing you can do ..it is out of your hands..If the buyer just claimed the unauthorized payment for no reason"
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Well i had someone do a unauthorized payment on me before and i won..It shouldnt take a genius to figure out if your ip's for 6 months were coming from usa and then on 1 payment it comes from japan that something is up..
 
I don't think any of it matters. I'm SOL on this one. I did find a site that blacklists customers who do chargebacks, but I don't think it will make much impact because if the seller isn not a member of the site (there is a fee), then they won't be able to deny the blacklisted customer the sale.
 
oyeah22 said:
Well i had someone do a unauthorized payment on me before and i won..It shouldnt take a genius to figure out if your ip's for 6 months were coming from usa and then on 1 payment it comes from japan that something is up..
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that's exactly what i think in normal cases, that's why i always send the IP logs, but it's really odd, i can't even win one of this kind of claims (we're talking about digital products without tracking number of course)

i can see only two possibilities:

(1) i am totally out of luck and all of my honest customers as well, who get their paypal accounts hacked and that's why i lose all of the claims from this kind without exception
(2) paypal doesn't do its job as one would expect when it comes to claim for unauthorized payment
i guess (2) can be closer to the truth
 
HoNeYBiRD said:
that's exactly what i think in normal cases, that's why i always send the IP logs, but it's really odd, i can't even win one of this kind of claims (we're talking about digital products without tracking number of course)

i can see only two possibilities:

(1) i am totally out of luck and all of my honest customers as well, who get their paypal accounts hacked and that's why i lose all of the claims from this kind without exception
(2) paypal doesn't do its job as one would expect when it comes to claim for unauthorized payment
i guess (2) can be closer to the truth
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It's obvious that this person is tring to screw me it's not funny. If someone hacked a Paypal account, why would they risk getting caught by buying a $17 Adsense tutorial?

It's laughable.
 
My advice is .... dont put any paypal icons or write "paypal" on your site. Dont let buyers know it's paypal until they are directed to the paypal payment page.

Putting a statement such as "we accept paypal" on your site is an invitation to hackers and cheaters to buy your product/service without paying. Just my opinion.
 
Tucker said:
My advice is .... dont put any paypal icons or write "paypal" on your site. Dont let buyers know it's paypal until they are directed to the paypal payment page.

Putting a statement such as "we accept paypal" on your site is an invitation to hackers and cheaters to buy your product/service without paying. Just my opinion.
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I'm pretty sure it wasn't a hacker. What hacker is going to buy a year old $17 MRR Adsense product with a hacked Paypal account? No, this buyer is just an asshole.
 
cjmo75 said:
I'm pretty sure it wasn't a hacker. What hacker is going to buy a year old $17 MRR Adsense product with a hacked Paypal account? No, this buyer is just an asshole.
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True story, back in 2005, after the old biller for one my sites went down, I put up a paypal icon on my site and a direct link to pay with paypal.

guess what? the very first payment which I got was disputed. And then, paypal closed my account for TOS violation.

Is it a coincidence that, me and you, we both got disputes on our first payment? I think not. Paypal is an easy target for cheaters and hackers with stolen paypal accounts. Kids know it and get a thrill from buying something for free, even if they dont want it. I would not be surprised if there are bots searching the web for sites which accept paypal.

I no longer show paypal icons on my sites or link directly to paypal. Buyers dont find out that I use paypal until they reach paypal's website. I dont get disputes from paypal anymore. zero disputes. I only get a few chargebacks per year which I can not refute.
 
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