BANG! BITCOIN BABY

Exxtra · Nov 2, 2023

splishsplash said:
He doesn't understand anything about financial markets.

The core problem is he thinks he can somehow put up $10k, get $1mil on margin at 6% and then he's going to go to the secondary bond market and find these magic bonds with a 10-20% effective yield. It's pure fantasy land. He isn't even talking about predicting the markets. He doesn't understand the relationship between bond pricing and base interest rates.

GPT boy, you didn't even know about bonds until I mentioned it. Now you're copy-pasting botnet drivel hoping it "wins" your losing argument for you. If you don't think you can achieve a up to 20% effective yield with bonds then you really don't know what's going on. And all the while, you ignore the limited downside of buying bonds, as you will always get back principle plus interest as long as it's not a zero-coupon.

He also keeps throwing in garbage about crypto, when we're trying to talk about bonds. Every post he's shouting and screaming about crypto and calling me a scammer because I'm schooling him about financial markets.

Be him, use chatgpt to attempt to argue about something he knows nothing about, continues making a fool of himself each time he respond to cheerlead crypto (a medium of exchange) as a speculative investment. Buys crypto at its peak, HODLs it as it loses 80% of its exchange value, trolls BHW thinking he's a financial genius. LOL

You borrow 99% of an investment, so you multiply the interest rate of your loan by 0.99. Why? This is stupid. All you're doing is with this kind of thinking is funding your interest with your own money. It makes no sense to even look at it like this. A simple example is if you can make 10% returns, and borrrow at 10%. You invest $50k, and you borrow $50k. What you're doing here is saying your effective interest is 50% * 10% = 5% You're now making 5% on $100k, instead of 10% on $50k. It's just a pointless way to look at it.

You didn't consult chatbot on this one, did you? The fundamental point is that buying on margin means you know what your costs are, and what you have to exceed to beat it. With a 6% margin rate whatever you are borrowing costs 0.5% per month of the balance. If the yield of the instrument is 5.5% you are gaining 0.45% per month in interest, placing you at a deficit of 0.05% per month. Whatever you can make above 0.05% becomes profit. If you have to hold for two months, it's 0.10% that needs to be overcome. Bonds can easily move a few tenths of a percent over the course of a month.

Max loss on a treasury bond is limited to the difference between margin cost and yield if you hold to maturity, so there is a lot of downside protection.

Do you actually believe the stuff you say? Are we seeing the Dunning-Kruger effect in full effect at the left of the bell curve here?

Let's look at what you said:
- Crypto is the better 'investment' than bonds
- Trading bonds cannot yield 20% or even 10% in a year
- You don't know how margin works, so you asked GPT
- You don't know about Interactive Brokers but listed all the normie/NPC exchanges used by clueless losers of money
- You think you "own" crypto but fail to realize you cannot prove title to it
- You don't know what a ponzi scam is, or that promoting one is fraud

And I've never heard anyone smart say "Dunning-Kruger". It's the rallying cry of the reddit wannabe "smart guy" NPC, whose knowledge is a mix of the first few results of a google search coupled with whatever chatbot tells him.

splishsplash · Nov 3, 2023

Exxtra said:
GPT boy, you didn't even know about bonds until I mentioned it. Now you're copy-pasting botnet drivel hoping it "wins" your losing argument for you. If you don't think you can achieve a up to 20% effective yield with bonds then you really don't know what's going on. And all the while, you ignore the limited downside of buying bonds, as you will always get back principle plus interest as long as it's not a zero-coupon.

Be him, use chatgpt to attempt to argue about something he knows nothing about, continues making a fool of himself each time he respond to cheerlead crypto (a medium of exchange) as a speculative investment. Buys crypto at its peak, HODLs it as it loses 80% of its exchange value, trolls BHW thinking he's a financial genius. LOL

You didn't consult chatbot on this one, did you? The fundamental point is that buying on margin means you know what your costs are, and what you have to exceed to beat it. With a 6% margin rate whatever you are borrowing costs 0.5% per month of the balance. If the yield of the instrument is 5.5% you are gaining 0.45% per month in interest, placing you at a deficit of 0.05% per month. Whatever you can make above 0.05% becomes profit. If you have to hold for two months, it's 0.10% that needs to be overcome. Bonds can easily move a few tenths of a percent over the course of a month.

Max loss on a treasury bond is limited to the difference between margin cost and yield if you hold to maturity, so there is a lot of downside protection.

Let's look at what you said:
- Crypto is the better 'investment' than bonds
- Trading bonds cannot yield 20% or even 10% in a year
- You don't know how margin works, so you asked GPT
- You don't know about Interactive Brokers but listed all the normie/NPC exchanges used by clueless losers of money
- You think you "own" crypto but fail to realize you cannot prove title to it
- You don't know what a ponzi scam is, or that promoting one is fraud

And I've never heard anyone smart say "Dunning-Kruger". It's the rallying cry of the reddit wannabe "smart guy" NPC, whose knowledge is a mix of the first few results of a google search coupled with whatever chatbot tells him.

You are very funny, but extremely dimwitted. No offence meant, it is just an observable fact based on your responses.

I have presented you with facts backed by .gov websites and authority sites as well as showing you live bonds on the secondary market which show you in absolute terms that you cannot buy bonds on the secondary market with an effective yield of 20%.

Heck you think a 3-month bond at 5% pays out 5% every 3 months. What can you say to that? You ignore all intellectual and reference backed refutal and every time resort to straw-men arguments about crypto.

We both know you have never traded bonds in your life and do not have an account on interactive brokers. You are fooling no one.

Best of luck to you.

agedaccs · Nov 3, 2023

Exxtra said:
The bond market is the largest financial market there is, so your comment is silly because "just about everyone" is investing in bonds and has been since the market existed. You're acting like this is new. Bonds have been a thing for hundreds of years.

Yes, everyone who knows the financial markets understands that basic fact. Bonds are traditional investments with low risk and also low return, but you have not refuted anything at all about your own $10,000 to $1,000,000 100x leveraged bonds with a 20% a-year annual return theory.

Those figures are delusional. Even top hedge funds are only getting a 10-15% annually on stocks.

You are only talking about degenerate gambling here and not sound investing.

Exxtra said:
What are you talking about "doesn't make sense"? Is this another cryptard argument trying to present the illusion that if you buy crypto there is no risk, but bonds are somehow dangerous? Your maximum loss for bonds bought on margin is going to be the difference between the yield and margin rate as long as you hold them to maturity. Obviously, maxing out your account is not a good idea - IT WAS PRESENTED AS AN EXAMPLE.

So basically, your alternative to risky "crypto" is a 100x leveraged degenerate speculation that could be liquidated at any random moment?

Your alternative is worse than a spot crypto or stock investment because the risk for liquidation is insanely high. Even expert traders are playing it safer than your option.

Exxtra said:
What's with the line spacing? Is this the same troll on another account? Why are you even talking about the "risk free rate" when nobody asked you about that? I clearly stated that you can get a rate of 6-6.5% with IB, contrary to your previous claim that the best possible margin rate would be 12%.

Because you were talking as if it was just that easy and simple to 100x your principal, and brokers would just lend 100x leverage to you at an interest rate lower than the risk-free rate.

Exxtra said:
All "investing" is gambling, but coming from a cryptard who gambles in ponzi scams, that is rich. I don't know why you thought adding this in was somehow beneficial to your point. It just reiterates the fact that you don't know what you're talking about.

What cryptard are you talking about?

Please stop with the insults because it doesn't mean anything or help with your argument at all.

I have 50% of my portfolio in short-term t-bills and high-yield savings accounts at the moment because I'm waiting for the Fed to ease the interest rates or for the market to go lower before I start investing significantly again since everything is overvalued nowadays.

There is a big difference between making a spot trade vs. using a 100x leverage. In the former, you can keep holding if shit happens, the trade goes against you, and recover in the future, but in the latter, your position will be liquidated, and you lose all your money. The worst thing about this is that your account might be in the negative after all this, and now you owe the broker a shit ton of money that you probably wouldn't be able to pay off due to the insane leverage used. (Like what happened to those WSB users that offed themselves after they got rekt gambling degenerately.)

It's logical investing vs. degenerate gambling. Even most r/wsb users are not gambling like what you have mentioned. They are at least playing it safer than you, and their investment theory makes some sense, but yours does not make sense in reality, you are living in fantasy land.

Exxtra said:
Another pointless comment, as if what you are saying here is only true about bonds and not about any other speculative investment. Tell us bro, be honest, you went all-in on shitcoin at $60K and now that it blips up into the 30s you think you're making profits.

I'm the most conservative investor here in the forum. I'm well diversified in short/long-term bonds, stocks, commodities, rental real estate properties, crypto, and businesses, so your assumption is completely wrong.

You've never refuted the counter-arguments at all and instead were just sending insulting replies to others after they have called you out on your bullshit.

There is no point in talking to you at all. It's only a waste of time, so Good luck.

DavidG1510 · Nov 3, 2023

uff.. too bad I have only 3.5 BTC -_- !!

Exxtra · Nov 4, 2023

splishsplash said:
You are very funny, but extremely dimwitted. No offence meant, it is just an observable fact based on your responses.

GPT boy projecting here. Why not start by learning how to form paragraphs and not posting like everywhere is reddit, and low IQ is celebrated?

I have presented you with facts backed by .gov websites and authority sites as well as showing you live bonds on the secondary market which show you in absolute terms that you cannot buy bonds on the secondary market with an effective yield of 20%.

You can absolutely earn 20% returns trading bonds, all of which was an example, that I have demonstrated, as bonds can be traded like stocks or any other securities, so you can buy low and sell high. You still think crypto is property or an asset, which is akin to saying the paper a bond may be printed on is itself the asset and not what is printed upon it. Without GPT you know nothing, without exchanges your imaginary "money" has no value.

We both know you have never traded bonds in your life and do not have an account on interactive brokers. You are fooling no one.

And all you have done was participate in a ponzi scam, and try to get others to do the same. You didn't even know about IB until I mentioned it (gpt didn't tell you?), so the evidence is quite clear that you don't know anything about finance, or about crypto, but you are the poster child for a fool and his 'money' which are soon to be parted. How high was BTC when you bought in expecting it to double from there? Peak? LOL.

Exxtra · Nov 4, 2023

agedaccs said:
Yes, everyone who knows the financial markets understands that basic fact. Bonds are traditional investments with low risk and also low return, but you have not refuted anything at all about your own $10,000 to $1,000,000 100x leveraged bonds with a 20% a-year annual return theory.

Point was always to compare returns based on a relatively small deposit amount. A fact that has gotten lost in the drivel of pseudo-intellectuals and their reddit-post garbage.

Those figures are delusional. Even top hedge funds are only getting a 10-15% annually on stocks.

You mean hedge funds that are required to follow certain rules and limit risk, drawdown, and other such things? Saying this is as stupid as saying "You should never modify your car, the OEM engineers know best. They chose only optimal parts" as if they are not constrained by budget limitations and manufacturing processes.

You are only talking about degenerate gambling here and not sound investing. So basically, your alternative to risky "crypto" is a 100x leveraged degenerate speculation that could be liquidated at any random moment? Your alternative is worse than a spot crypto or stock investment because the risk for liquidation is insanely high. Even expert traders are playing it safer than your option.

Ah yes, make up a strawman and pretend you know better, because you think that suggesting an example that was presented as proof-of-concept was actually "financial advice" that people should rely on. Meanwhile, you and your addled-mind friend continue to suggest the lie that crypto is an "investment". Do you go to casinos to "invest" in chips?

Because you were talking as if it was just that easy and simple to 100x your principal, and brokers would just lend 100x leverage to you at an interest rate lower than the risk-free rate. What cryptard are you talking about? Please stop with the insults because it doesn't mean anything or help with your argument at all.

Triggered cryptard essentially telling us that an "investment" must produce 100x or it's not a valid investment. The margin rate you pay is reduced based on the balance of the principle, and while government bond yields are never going to exceed margin rates, they are safe for leveraging for the simple fact that if you hold to maturity, the most you can lose is the difference between the margin rate and yield.

There is a big difference between making a spot trade vs. using a 100x leverage.

I don't think you have grasped anything being said in the conversation leading up to this point. You fixate on "100x leverage" like it's a hard rule. Quote the part where anyone said "you must use 100x leverage". I'll wait.

I'm the most conservative investor here in the forum. I'm well diversified in short/long-term bonds, stocks, commodities, rental real estate properties, crypto, and businesses, so your assumption is completely wrong. You've never refuted the counter-arguments at all and instead were just sending insulting replies to others after they have called you out on your bullshit.

Nobody has to refute your idiocy. That's the reddit standard - if you make a valid point I'll respond, but you're vastly overestimating your intelligence or standing here. Plenty of fools calling themselves "investors" to hide the fact that they're gamblers in denial. Fun fact: you don't own any of your holdings. You are simply a beneficial party; the title to your securities remains with the brokerage and you have no claim to them if something happens to the brokerage. I wonder if you knew that.

There is no point in talking to you at all. It's only a waste of time, so Good luck.

And yet you continue blabbering like a woman.

splishsplash · Nov 4, 2023

Exxtra said:
GPT boy projecting here. Why not start by learning how to form paragraphs and not posting like everywhere is reddit, and low IQ is celebrated?

You can absolutely earn 20% returns trading bonds, all of which was an example, that I have demonstrated, as bonds can be traded like stocks or any other securities, so you can buy low and sell high. You still think crypto is property or an asset, which is akin to saying the paper a bond may be printed on is itself the asset and not what is printed upon it. Without GPT you know nothing, without exchanges your imaginary "money" has no value.

And all you have done was participate in a ponzi scam, and try to get others to do the same. You didn't even know about IB until I mentioned it (gpt didn't tell you?), so the evidence is quite clear that you don't know anything about finance, or about crypto, but you are the poster child for a fool and his 'money' which are soon to be parted. How high was BTC when you bought in expecting it to double from there? Peak? LOL.

Cool story, bro.

chillyourmind · Nov 5, 2023

Omg stop using Ai to reply on threads

splishsplash · Nov 5, 2023

chillyourmind said:
Omg stop using Ai to reply on threads

I don't. That's just a baseless accusation because the way I write is a little similar to chatgpt.

Check my 10 year post history and you'll see my writing style is pretty consistent throughout the past 10 years.

chillyourmind · Nov 5, 2023

splishsplash said:
I don't. That's just a baseless accusation because the way I write is a little similar to chatgpt.

Check my 10 year post history and you'll see my writing style is pretty consistent throughout the past 10 years.

You IQ is lower than chatgpt, you are right

agedaccs · Nov 5, 2023

Exxtra said:
Point was always to compare returns based on a relatively small deposit amount. A fact that has gotten lost in the drivel of pseudo-intellectuals and their reddit-post garbage.

Yes, you are talking about using leverage, but this ONLY works IF YOU COULD DO IT. The question is, where is your OWN PROOF that you have done all these investment strategies and not just making up hypothetical best-case scenarios based on some TikTok or YouTube videos you've watched?

Exxtra said:
You mean hedge funds that are required to follow certain rules and limit risk, drawdown, and other such things? Saying this is as stupid as saying "You should never modify your car, the OEM engineers know best. They chose only optimal parts" as if they are not constrained by budget limitations and manufacturing processes.

You are proving my point even more by writing this: hedge funds can only make investment decisions with a reasonable risk-to-reward ratio that matches reality.

If your investment strategy were better than everyone else's, everyone would be doing it. However, your investment strategy was basically speculating and gambling with insane leverage and a very high risk of liquidation at any moment.

Hedge funds are not doing it because it's an impractical strategy. Otherwise, we would be having a financial crisis every few months instead of every 7 years (average cycle)

Exxtra said:
Triggered cryptard essentially telling us that an "investment" must produce 100x or it's not a valid investment. The margin rate you pay is reduced based on the balance of the principle, and while government bond yields are never going to exceed margin rates, they are safe for leveraging for the simple fact that if you hold to maturity, the most you can lose is the difference between the margin rate and yield.

Stop lowering yourself even more by writing all these insults, and It does not help with your argument.

People only resort to using insults when they know that their argument is weak or wrong.

Exxtra said:
I don't think you have grasped anything being said in the conversation leading up to this point. You fixate on "100x leverage" like it's a hard rule. Quote the part where anyone said "you must use 100x leverage". I'll wait.

"So let us say you managed to squeeze out a 0.5% profit within a month, that is 0.5% of $1,000,000 or $5,000 profit on a $10,000 deposit in about a month. I'm not really sure why you are having such a hard time following along here. A $5,000 profit on $10,000 investment is 50%. Even if you only managed 0.1% profit in a month, that's a 10% profit on your deposit."

Not my words. You've said it yourself by turning a $10,000 principal into a $1,000,000 principal.
See? You're contradicting what you said earlier.

Exxtra said:
Nobody has to refute your idiocy. That's the reddit standard - if you make a valid point I'll respond, but you're vastly overestimating your intelligence or standing here. Plenty of fools calling themselves "investors" to hide the fact that they're gamblers in denial. Fun fact: you don't own any of your holdings. You are simply a beneficial party; the title to your securities remains with the brokerage and you have no claim to them if something happens to the brokerage. I wonder if you knew that.

If you're so 'intelligent' and better investors than us, like you claim, why don't you show us your OWN portfolio returns using these strategies from the past 3 years? Let's see if what you've been saying actually holds any truth.

You're here again with all this basic information that everyone knows. It's the same as saying, "Fun fact: cash is actually only based on people's trust and has no intrinsic value to it."

Everyone already knows that, but guess what, if you got liquidated using insane leverage, your account will be wiped out the same, so it doesn't matter.

Exxtra said:
And yet you continue blabbering like a woman.

You are the only one here blabbering like a woman. Your statements are disconnected from reality, and you keep using insulting language in an investment discussion. It's obvious that your emotional threshold is very low.

You're too biased and emotional. Throwing around insults in an investment discussion as an older person really shows how 'intelligent' you think you are.

You've been a member on here since 2009, yet you still interact with others like a child. There is really no point in talking to you. We won't go anywhere with this discussion, You are only arguing for the point of argument and not really looking to have a proper conversation. So, Good luck.

Exxtra · Nov 5, 2023

@agedaccs We're done here, kid. Go back to fapping to cartoon tranime porn or whatever it is you do. You're literally repeating yourself and, like your buddy, know nothing about anything. I'm glad your such a successful investor who doesn't understand bonds, or how to make use of margin, or how to manage risk. Wait for bitcoin to hit $150K and buy, surely it can only go up from there. LOL

bartosimpsonio · Nov 5, 2023

Makanake said:
The sad thing is that some people liked your comment

For comedy value probably

Makanake · Nov 5, 2023

bartosimpsonio said:
For comedy value probably

Sorry don't want to sound arrogant,but I found that statement a bit exaggerated... nevermind,I deleted it,who am I to judge people's perspectives

nohupt · Nov 5, 2023

jesus fucking christ, people need to calm down here and just buy some bitcoin so we can all make money on it!

OneGuySEO · Nov 5, 2023

Sol said:
View attachment 293589
Irish Spring Green Green across the board!

I know the pump won’t last but incredible movement 12% up in 24 hours!

We get similar threads before every bull, then it's down and crypto is a scam threads, then the real pump happens

But yeah it's good green movement for now

DasB00T · Nov 6, 2023

Sol said:
View attachment 293589
Irish Spring Green Green across the board!

I know the pump won’t last but incredible movement 12% up in 24 hours!

The king is back, showing the rest of the market how its done.

ProgressNow · Nov 6, 2023

Market is slowly priming up for a wonderful bull run. Lets go!!!

Punctogn · Nov 7, 2023

BTC still has a bullish bias on the market. I prefer to hold my position.

DavidG1510 · Nov 8, 2023

I think it is the Time to buy.

BANG! BITCOIN BABY

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