avoiding to pay student loans

bushbabie21 said:

No, what i am saying is that just like your linkpushing service exploits loopholes in Googles ranking algorythm, this kid should try to find the best position he can using his brain. If the system were set up correctly, he would be employed and the equation would make sense, rendering this whole problem unnecesary. People revolt when there is an inbalance in a social or government system. Why would you just accept a financial system that obviously cares nothing for you and uses unfair and deceptive tactics? On a more primitive level, i think its in our makeup to want to solve problems that would otherwise be disadvantageous to us, because how else would a scrwany human being not wind up on a lions dinner plate if he didnt find a way to game the system. I by no means condone anything illegal but the education/lending business has become a lion and if you play by their rules, you will be a slave forever.

BTW...none of that stuff was meant as a personal attack and i only used your service as an example. I actually like your service but my point is that technically any action used to inflate links is an attempt to game the big G, so why not do that for things that are as important as the future of your financial solvency

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No offense taken at all but not paying a debt is not exploiting the system.

It's hosing people and the banks' shareholders.

The fact of the matter is, in the banking industry, is that the banks aren't lending their own money. They are lending the money of the people that deposit in the banks. It's actually your and my money that is being lent.

If he bypassed the bank and borrowed directly from you, signed a contract to pay you back, and then said "Bleep Off!" you would not take kindly to that and neither would anyone else.

Being an honorable man means taking responsibility and not borrowing and then saying "Bleep Off!" but rather working to repay the debt.

Using various processes to rank in Google is different, I have no contract with Google, I never said to Google "I'll be a nice little boy and not take advantage of various loopholes."

On the other hand, back when I used to borrow money (I no longer do), I would sign a contract indicating the repayment terms and would adhere to those terms.

Big difference.

One is contractual and one is what only one party (Google) wants.

I don't want to see the debtor starving due to the debt but you make a deal, you stick with it and bite the bullet even if it sucks.

Again, no offense taken and this discussion should be helpful for many.

Agreed, it is a very useful discussion. But i would like to point out that the entire banking system works on a double entry book keeping system so in essence they are gaming the system themselves. Have been for a long long time. Keep in mind that these same banks are responsible for the subprime disaster and obviously have predatory lending practices.

Of course if you tell a kid that he can borrow money, he will. I dont think that has anything to do with how intelligent you are, its naivete and youth. If a bank were to assess a college loan like they would any other loan i think a lot less money would be lent but because these banks are lending to young adults that are not aware of the profound consequences of taking this money, you essentially create a trap that will take most poeple the bulk of thier professional careers to repay. That would be fine and dandy, but the problem now is that its all planned...these banks are well aware of the dire economic situation and continue to lend becuase they will profit. Do you think sallie mae cares that johnny has the equivalent of a mortgage with nothing to show for it in an economy that is rotten. Of course they dont and the money continues to flow despite that fact.

Now, i do agree that one should try to pay back ones loans but if you for instance went to a homeless man with A. More money than he had and B. More knowledge about the predatory paperwork that you were making him sign, would you feel like this was as black and white. Because according to you logic, the ideal business plan would be to go to homeless people and make them sign promissory notes, knowing full well that there was no realistic way of getting paid back due to the situation. The only difference in this situation is that these lenders have govt. subsidies and co-signers that are equally as ignorant of the fact that the old model is being exploted and is broken.

BTW Op, i do apologize for turning this into a philosphical argument as opposed to any methods you might have been looking for.

bushbabie21 said:

Because according to you logic, the ideal business plan would be to go to homeless people and make them sign promissory notes, knowing full well that there was no realistic way of getting paid back due to the situation. The only difference in this situation is that these lenders have govt. subsidies and co-signers that are equally as ignorant of the fact that the old model is being exploted and is broken.

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That is actually a bad business plan because you cannot build your base of clients.

I've always tried to offer quality so that not only would my current clients be happy but they would send their friends and become repeat clients.

As to student loans being predatory, check out the interest rates (all I know about are USA rates, so recognize my ignorance there) but they are not bad and can be consolidated as well.

A personal point, I lent my own money at times to people that could not qualify for bank loans on real estate. I lent that money when the lending parameters in the US were stupid easy. My rates and points were high as the money I lent was considered "hard money".

The borrower's choice was essentially, pay the high interest rate and points or lose your home... not too tough a choice in most situations.

Consider if it was your money that the student was borrowing, would you want him/her to default if there was a way?

I doubt it... I hated to foreclose on someone that borrowed from me and didn't pay back the loan but business is business... I wasn't about to let someone borrow 90K and then not pay it back without recourse.

I'm not saying the banking industry is good, bad or indifferent nor am I making a comment on the system, all I am saying is a guy owes 16K "Pay it back."

You borrow, you sign a contract, you pay it back.

bushbabie21 said:

BTW Op, i do apologize for turning this into a philosphical argument as opposed to any methods you might have been looking for.

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Same here.

I disagree that it would be a bad business plan, if homeless people knew you would lend them money, they wouldnt care about the consequences. Its a question of necessity if its available. Much in the same way that college is still seen in the old light of being a necessity to advance financially. I guranatee you that scores of homeless people would sign up if you made such an offer available.

As for student interest rates, yes they are advertised low in the same way that ARM's were during the mortgage fiasco. The problem comes when you get into penalty territory and default. Also Consolidation is not much better in reality. Read up on the consolidation scams.

To be honest, I believe that my argument is more geared towards the concept of finding advantageous loopholes because in all reality, the banks have it set up so they dont loose...This kid is going to have to pay it back or suffer serious credit issues....the banks will be paid either way. I am just saying that a lender having their loans and the interest of these loans subsidized is a terribly irresponsible policy and will undoubtedly lead to abuse.

i mean think about it like this. If i told you, no matter what you lend to the homeless, as long as they sign your paper, I will pay you back the principle plus interest...

BassTrackerBoats said:

That is actually a bad business plan because you cannot build your base of clients.

I've always tried to offer quality so that not only would my current clients be happy but they would send their friends and become repeat clients.

As to student loans being predatory, check out the interest rates (all I know about are USA rates, so recognize my ignorance there) but they are not bad and can be consolidated as well.

A personal point, I lent my own money at times to people that could not qualify for bank loans on real estate. I lent that money when the lending parameters in the US were stupid easy. My rates and points were high as the money I lent was considered "hard money".

The borrower's choice was essentially, pay the high interest rate and points or lose your home... not too tough a choice in most situations.

Consider if it was your money that the student was borrowing, would you want him/her to default if there was a way?

I doubt it... I hated to foreclose on someone that borrowed from me and didn't pay back the loan but business is business... I wasn't about to let someone borrow 90K and then not pay it back without recourse.

I'm not saying the banking industry is good, bad or indifferent nor am I making a comment on the system, all I am saying is a guy owes 16K "Pay it back."

You borrow, you sign a contract, you pay it back.

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Your professors that wasted their time with you in class don't think the money system is a fraud. They "worked hard" to educate you, and you should "work hard" to repay that debt.

If the money is so worthless, you shouldn't mind giving it up to pay them back.

Don't just settle on being a consumer in society and never producing anything in return. That's what parasites do.

Lending to the homeless is shortsighted as that is not a long term business plan

Bottomline, Bushbabie21, you lend money to one and they don't pay you back althought hey agreed to pay you, are you or are you not Ok with it?

Your money, right out of your pocket.

Come on guys, this is Black Hat World, not Sissy Obey the System World.

It's actually not that hard but a bit risky. All you have to do is stage your death, go to another country, change your name there and voila. No more student loans.

U can get rid of banks, gangs, mobs, anything u can think of. But the only thing that will haunt your credit for the rest of your life will be your student loan.

Had a reply about why the education system is the biggest hustle ever. But the auto moderation system won't let me post. Oh well.

bushbabie21 said:

In the US its slightly more complicated than you guys are making it out to be.

Historically, a college degree did lead to a better job. Due to the lowering of the value of a college degree and the horrific job market that is no longer the case, i have friends that are staying in school just so they dont have to start paying back the loans...this model is flawed becuase at a certain point, you need to hit the lottery in order to pay back all these loans. Also lenders like sallie mae dont give a monkeys ass if you are unemployed or even fell and broke your neck...like that mafia saying" F!@# you pay us!

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Unless that whole system changed in the 3 or so years you were in college, you have no right to complain. Degrees are valued less now than what they once were, but that didn't happen overnight.

If you never intended to pay it back, then you shouldn't take it in the first place. I can't see any other way around this.

In New Zealand we have interest free student loans as long as you stay in the country. The goverment sees it as investing in our economy by providing interest free study to our citizens. But that is all going down the shitter because people take advantage of their generosity, and rack up huge loans that they never intend to repay. I overheard people talking about how they would be "lifelong" students which is just complete BS. The goverment is now cracking down and making it so you can't study more than once if you haven't paid back your previous study etc. But not only does that stop people taking advantage of the system, it also hurts people like me who first studied in one field, and then made a switch. They will no longer be able to do that because of piss poor ideologies from some people.

Debts should be paid back!
BUT getting a loan ought to be a really informed decision. Points were made that repaying is the right, honorable thing to do and I agree 100%.

But what about the creditor? Was he motivated by honor or at least fairness? Goodwill? Did he inform the kids that the interest is higher than before and the chances to get a good job are lower than before? I mean it is easy to call debtors daily or even hourly and appeal to their common sense / ethics / conscience but did YOU use it when giving out the money? Or were you simply hoping to get as many naive souls to become your 'slaves' for the next 40 years?

(I am using "you" to avoid tautologies, it is ment to address a generic creditor and not people taking part in this discussion).

It is true that banks operate with our money but they rarely use own funds (generated from the 10% difference from savings and lending interests) to make it easier on the clients. It is pretty common to hear a banker saying some company is not reliable enough to receive money from our client's pool, LET ALONE FROM OUR OWN ASSETS.

And finally there are the smart asses as mentioned by pyronaut, exploiting loopholes. No private entity will enable stuff like this but gov funds are wasted freely since it would be politically incorrect to expect from everyone to be able to finish a study in less than 20 years. Like for example there are mothers with 20 kids who need at least 30 years, immigrants who need 10 years to first learn the language and stuff. It would be all cool IF it wasn't destroying the chances of actually motivated people.

But in reality it is becoming harder and harder to get a break if a person keeps trying not to take advantage of various welfare programs: 'Oh, you don't need help? Great, since you are stupid enough to not rape the system, please also pay additionally for those doing it.'

im a brit , and to me your just another no good sit on my ass uni scum ... the whole country is f***** cos people come from outside it to rape it, your raping it from the inside.
my daughters bf , a hard working man lost his job, now they split up cos they cant pay bills. you got 12k and u want to sit on ur ass lol.

get a job u lazy scum bag prick.

why wasnt you here b4 the loan asking , " should i take a loan if i cant pay it back" funny yes all them days in the pub pissing ur uni loan up, well welcome ot the real world, TIME TO PAY IT BACK, and every month you dont its getting higher, lol them cheap pints in uni , not so cheap now are they.

What you should do is create a website to were college students
who owe money for unpaid college loans and have all these greedy
rich farts put there money to a good cause and help these
poor college students who are trying to live the American dream of
making bank when they finish school to only find out they are making
peanuts for all those years in school.

Then you have all these rich farts professors who live in these
nice homes just juicing the school piggy bank. Instead of making
school more affordable for anyone who wants an education these
dam schools are basically saying Hey we like you come to school here
so we can bend you over. Its not education its all about money and business.


Then these kids get out of college and get a job paying $100,000 a year minus irs and minus living expenses on a $200,000 debt you add all that sh** up thats rape right there.


So the solution to fix all this is to have all the Rich fartbags start paying down these loans and write it off on there taxes. It's a good cause

Why should you pay your student loan when you took one in the first place? I think that is unfair even to the company who lent you money. It is also irresponsible to even do that.

Dont know about the UK, but take a look at this documentary to get a picture of the Situation with American Education.

http://youtu.be/VpZtX32sKVE

You all are funny. Yea education is a racket but pay the damn loan back. Cut back on your social crap now so you have more to spend later and pay it off quickly. Then you can go see a shrink and blame all of your problems on your parents and your childhood.

I know you are a young adult and know everything right now but it is time to grow a pair and take responsibility for YOUR actions. I tell you what, if your grandparents are still alive, go ask them what you should do. Wear a helmet because gramps may just throw you through a brick wall for asking such a question.

It used to be that two people could shake hands and they had a contract because their word was their honor. Now you can't even trust someone that documents that same promise.

Instead of being pissed and jealous of those that have succeeded ahead of you (yes they may have even screwed you) why don't you study them and find out what got them there. Every time you see anger at the dominate players anywhere, it is based on either jealousy or envy. I see it in this thread, people are attacking the banking and education industry. They are supplying what people are demanding. No one is holding a gun to your head, why not work for 2-3 years and save your money and pay cash for the education instead of paying for 15 after you are done.

How about going to a junior college instead of a university for the basics i.e. english, math etc. It would be a lot cheaper.

If something requires YOU to make a decision, if it does not work out, it is YOUR fault for making the bad decision. No one forces you to invest, no one forces you to borrow, these decisions are yours.