Avoiding the military

As it turns out, people don't want an expensive army that just 'trains' all day and 'does nothing'. They rather have a cheap one for that purpose.

By forcing others (youth) to slave for 1+ years. People advocating slavery for money. What a surprise. That 's exactly what I 'm saying is happening and I am strongly morally against it.

I'll make my point again, in order for a professional, well-paid and well-equipped army to exist you need tax budget. For such a large tax budget to exist you need cause. Training is not cause. War is cause. I can't make it any simpler than that.

People want security. Not war. The cause of the existence of security services is the demand for security, just like the existence of the hotel industry is the demand for lodging. War is what the slave masters want, not me. I can not understand why you claim we need war to buy security. We only need security providers. Simple as that.

You are also required by law to pay X amount of money to taxes. This means you are forced to work to pay taxes. So you are a slave now? By your logic, yes you are.

Obviously.

By other logic taxes and draft are reasonable to pay to be able to live in a coherent, save and progressive society.

Ffs, obviously not.

Luckily we are free to live and form our own opinions and logic. See what I did there?

Err constantly? :o

Third, I believe the following statement to be way out of line for a MOD. Lead by example they say.

I suppose that example would be to be pro-slavery and pro-war. No thanks, I 'll pass the opportunity.
 
Don't try to do the contrary otherwise you could be blacklisted like you rightly said.

You have only two options:

1. Get into a third world country because that would provide you an easy movement.
2. Be a true Brazilian by living up to expectation.
 
@Maruk If you don't have a choice then effectively you ARE a slave.
OP chooses not to serve but his freedom may be at liberty if he does not.
If he is forced to then that is essentially slavery.

jazzc wins this one because we ARE slaves.
I live in a country where the myth of freedom is disguised by the myth of democracy.
Unless I become seriously wealthy, then I will continue to be a slave.
Financial freedom is the first step to total freedom where I can choose the society I live in or at least be able to influence it.

The argument for or against the Military or National Service is irrelevant because if personal choice is taken away from the individual then we become nothing but part of the State machine.
 
There is always a choice. He can serve or play crazy and not serve. (Seriously, just take the psychological exam and answer like a schizophrenic would. Not rocketsurgery.)
The point is you can't seem to get off your high horses and realize that we are all 'slaves' and we all support real slavery by buying all the shit we do. In fact, at no point in history was slavery this rampant because we buy all the shit we like.
You honestly seem to think that draft is designed to turn you into an actual slave.
Stop the slave bullshit.
Draft was designed to create a true peoples army at low cost with the purpose of self defense.
You want to buy security? Look at the USA. People are tired of the amount of money spend on the military.
People want budget cuts if it means less taxes.
NO ONE WANTS TO PAY FOR A PROFESSIONAL AND WELL EQUIPPED ARMY!
So why do well paid volunteer armies go and fight senseless wars? TO JUSTIFY THEIR EXISTENCE!

You can't knock the draft because it is the only army people are willing to pay for.
Yet they don't want to serve that same low cost solution to a national problem. That's the point.
 
[h=2]Arguments against conscription[/h] [h=3]Sexism[/h] Historically, the vast majority of conscription measures involve male-only participation. Even today, most countries mandating conscription only do so for males. Men who opt out of military service must often perform alternative service, such as Zivildienst in Austria and Switzerland, whereas women do not have even these obligations.
Nominally gender-equal societies such as Finland and Denmark also employ male-only conscription, as have the Netherlands and Sweden in contemporary times. The onerous time and other commitments involved with conscription, spanning two years in many cases, raises serious questions about the fairness of such programs and how they fit in with expectations of equal treatment irrespective of sex.
While women, almost always exempt from conscription, are free to pursue work, study and other activities, men's early career and life prospects can be impeded by conscription.
[h=3]Slavery[/h] American libertarians oppose conscription and call for the abolition of the Selective Service System, believing that impressment of individuals into the armed forces is involuntary servitude.[SUP][118][/SUP] Ron Paul, a former leader of the Libertarian Party has said, "Conscription is wrongly associated with patriotism, when it really represents slavery and involuntary servitude."[SUP][119][/SUP] The philosopher Ayn Rand opposed it because "Of all the statist violations of individual rights in a mixed economy, the military draft is the worst. It is an abrogation of rights. It negates man's fundamental right—the right to life—and establishes the fundamental principle of statism: that a man's life belongs to the state, and the state may claim it by compelling him to sacrifice it in battle."[SUP][120][/SUP]
In 1917, a number of radicals and anarchists, including Emma Goldman, challenged the new draft law in federal court arguing that it was a direct violation of the Thirteenth Amendment's prohibition against slavery and involuntary servitude. However, the Supreme Court unanimously upheld the constitutionality of the draft act in the case of Arver v. United States on January 7, 1918. The decision said the Constitution gave Congress the power to declare war and to raise and support armies. The Court emphasized the principle of the reciprocal rights and duties of citizens:
"It may not be doubted that the very conception of a just government in its duty to the citizen includes the reciprocal obligation of the citizen to render military service in case of need and the right to compel.".[SUP][121][/SUP] [h=3]Economics[/h] It can be argued that in a cost-to-benefit ratio, conscription during peace time is not worthwhile.[SUP][122][/SUP] Months or years of service amongst the most fit and capable subtracts from the productivity of the economy; add to this the cost of training them, and in some countries paying them. Compared to these extensive costs, some would argue there is very little benefit; if there ever was a war then conscription and basic training could be completed quickly, and in any case there is little threat of a war in most countries with conscription. In the United States, every male resident must register with the Selective Service System on his 18th birthday and is available for a draft.
The cost of conscription can be related to the parable of the broken window. The cost of the work, military service, does not disappear even if no salary is paid. The work effort of the conscripts is effectively wasted, as an unwilling workforce is extremely inefficient. The impact is especially severe in wartime, when civilian professionals are forced to fight as amateur soldiers. Not only is the work effort of the conscripts wasted and productivity lost, but professionally skilled conscripts are also difficult to replace in the civilian workforce. Every soldier conscripted in the army is taken away from his civilian work, and away from contributing to the economy which funds the military. This is not a problem in an agrarian or pre-industrialized state where the level of education is universally low, and where a worker is easily replaced by another. However, this proves extremely problematic in a post-industrial society where educational levels are high and where the workforce is highly sophisticated and a replacement for a conscripted specialist is difficult to find. Even direr economic consequences result if the professional conscripted as an amateur soldier is killed or maimed for life; his work effort and productivity is irrevocably lost.[SUP][123][/SUP]
[h=2]Arguments for conscription[/h] [h=3]Political and moral motives[/h] Further information: Social contract, Social solidarity, and Active citizenship





Jean Jacques Rousseau argued vehemently against professional armies, feeling it was the right and privilege of every citizen to participate to the defense of the whole society and a mark of moral decline to leave this business to professionals. He based this view on the development of the Roman republic, which came to an end at the same time as the Roman army changed from a conscript to professional force.[SUP][124][/SUP] Similarly, Aristotle linked the division of armed service among the populace intimately with the political order of the state.[SUP][125][/SUP] Niccol Machiavelli argued strongly for conscription, seeing the professional armies as the cause of the failure of societal unity in Italy.
Other proponents, such as William James, consider both mandatory military and national service as ways of instilling maturity in young adults.[SUP][126][/SUP] Some proponents, such as Jonathan Alter and Mickey Kaus, support a draft in order to reinforce social equality, create social consciousness, break down class divisions and for young adults to immerse themselves in public enterprise.[SUP][127][/SUP][SUP][128][/SUP][SUP][129][/SUP]
[h=3]Economic & resource efficiency[/h] Further information: Industrial warfare, Total war, and War effort
It is estimated by the British military that in a professional military, a company deployed for active duty in peacekeeping corresponds to three inactive companies at home. Salaries for each are paid from the military budget. In contrast, volunteers from a trained reserve are in their civilian jobs when they are not deployed.[SUP][130][/SUP]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscription

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscription_in_Brazil
 
There is always a choice. He can serve or play crazy and not serve.

The plantation slaves had a choice in that sense. They could continue being slaves or die. That has no value and is irrelevant. And in case you 're wondering, many slaves in the Caribbean committed suicide by eating their own faeces.

The point is you can't seem to get off your high horses and realize that we are all 'slaves' and we all support real slavery by buying all the shit we do.

Ha. Yes, buying things we like with our hard earned money is slavery. Being dragged into servitude for you to skip paying for your safety is freedom! How did we miss that? :o

You honestly seem to think that draft is designed to turn you into an actual slave.

Finally, it 's coming through! :)

Stop the slave bullshit.

Someone else owning you and your labour is slavery. You can sugarcoat it as much as you like, but it doesn't change the fact.

Draft was designed to create a true peoples army at low cost with the purpose of self defense.

Yes, we 've understood that. You do not want to pay for professional service and you want other people to pay for your part. We got it, you made it crystal clear. And that 's what I 'm saying. You want to feed on other people 's labour, stealing from them by having them slave away.

You can't knock the draft because it is the only army people are willing to pay for.

"You can't free the negros, that 's how we make our money". Not much of an argument there, I 'd say.
 
Got some great memories during my military service.. Would do it again anyday. But then again, I didn't serve in Brazil...

Try acting like a nutcase :p
 
The plantation slaves had a choice in that sense. They could continue being slaves or die. That has no value and is irrelevant. And in case you 're wondering, many slaves in the Caribbean committed suicide by eating their own faeces.
I am not telling him to eat shit and die. I am telling him the 'slave system' you find conscription to be has certain opportunities build in that give him many choice. I.e. fail physiological exams. Oh boy, wouldn't plantation slave loved to have that opportunities.
You are really comparing apples and oranges.


Ha. Yes, buying things we like with our hard earned money is slavery. Being dragged into servitude for you to skip paying for your safety is freedom! How did we miss that? :o
I am talking about how the stuff you buy is made by people living in slavery. you support slavery on a daily basis.
Shouldn't we buy those things then and let those workers starve because there is no work? Nope.
Point is you are on your high horse talking slave bullshit whilst supporting real slavery on a daily basis.


Finally, it 's coming through! :)



Someone else owning you and your labour is slavery. You can sugarcoat it as much as you like, but it doesn't change the fact.
I am saying he and people like him are willingly benefiting from a conscript army but refuse to pay back.


Yes, we 've understood that. You do not want to pay for professional service and you want other people to pay for your part. We got it, you made it crystal clear. And that 's what I 'm saying. You want to feed on other people 's labour, stealing from them by having them slave away.
You couldn't be more wrong and this sentence confirms that you can not read.
I said THE PEOPLE OF COUNTRIES won't pay for professional armies.
I used to be a sergeant in the army. In fact, I would go back if the money was right. Hence why I believe in the point I made a sentence ago. I would love to pay max tax to maintain the standard of our army as it is today. If that means they would only fight in self defense, I would pay 10 years taxes up front. Don't put words in to my mouth.
"You can't free the negros, that 's how we make our money". Not much of an argument there, I 'd say.
See above.

I really can't make it any simpler than this:
THE PEOPLE OF COUNTRIES will not pay enough for there to be a professional army to defend them.
Therefore a long time ago someone invented the draft.
This means a cheap self defense army for which everybody pays a nominal amount of money and a nominal amount of time.
In return you get the benefits of having a self defense army for the rest of your life.
Hardly slavery. If you wish to change all this, make sure that the people of a country are willing to pay top dollar for there army. Good luck.
If you wish to not participate in conscription either way, do what OP is doing. Lie, run, hide or do whatever you need to do. No hard feelings. But don't make it out as something to oppress people whilst it is something to defend people.

With professional armies that are fully paid by taxes there needs to be an urgent reason for them to exist. Otherwise people will complain about the high taxes because they feel there is no reason for a professional army to exist.
Now there isn't always a reason to have a huge and professional army. So you need a foreign policy that ensures that there is always a reason for such an army to exist. Hence the warfighting that goes on today.

So to sum this up:
  1. Conscription is not plantation slavery as you are given ample of real opportunity to not serve (over here you could even say your a Yehova's witness and you're not serving).
  2. You are on a high horse preaching anti-slavery but supporting slavery on a daily basis.
  3. The solution to all this is make people pay high enough taxes to create a good self defense army. Good luck, the people are not willing.

I don't think you realize we are on the same page, well at least the same book.
I do believe we are slaves of the system. I would love to not have conscription and still have a professional army for self defense only.
I am just disagreeing with you on what conscription is and represents.
 
@JustUs
You missed my point completely. Fear works against the strong too, just needs a different programming - e.g. soldiers will go in a fight even thou they're afraid, but the core fear is not they might die but that the enemy might win and come for their family, torture them, etc. Fear to be hurt is about a real thing. Fear of the boogie man is abstract.

Yes you can be a victim of violence and there's nothing you can do about it. There's always a stronger enemy that can hurt you. Always. Your definition of fearless is that of the bully. The bully doesn't live in fear specifically because he bullies and beats everybody else. It is a false sense of being fearless, power and security.

People do not go to war for survival. Survival can be achieved through cooperation and throughout history smaller tribes combined for this specific reason. Today US spends more on defense than everybody else combined. The entire world's military budget is estimated around 1.7 trillion USD per year. With that money, resources and brains you could solve literally every fucking problem in the world that requires fighting for resources or survival.

"Civilized" and 'Evolved" countries start wars for resources not because they lack resources but because they waste them. The amount of food that is being thrown away by citizens of civilized countries would probably fed half of the starving population of the world. Oil is wasted by driving SUVs and powering the military complex. The resources on earth are abundant and sufficient for a shitload higher population but not if you waste 10 times more than you'd need. Resource sparsity is not a problem because resources are lacking but because of the waste.

We're all victims of propaganda more or less but what I stated are my opinions and haven't got them from books or TV. Is what I think.

Your generalization about prey/predator being at every level from subatomic to galaxies is bullshit. You have no factual data that alien civilizations fight or that other planets are in same unevolved state we are. Considering the age of the universe and the age of Earth we are considered a young planet. Beyond that not all life forms are necessarily material or in the material universe. So to generalize about prey/predator at a universal scale is rather forced.

Again, you completely missed my entire point. I do not think you're completely wrong. You are right regarding many things you talk about but it is YOUR truth from your level. The way I was analyzing war and fighting was from a somewhat different level and perspective.

---

jazzc said:
I never expect my kids to do things they do not like. I do not own my kids, they are not my slaves.
^^^ BIG THUMBS UP!

Maruk said:
You are not state owned just because law requires you to do something. With that logic any and all laws make you a slave. Even life itself makes you a slave.
Actually it is mostly true. Most laws are for enslavement, life as it is is for enslavement. IMO a perfect world would have absolutely no laws - there would be no need for them. You don't need a piece of paper to tell you it's a bad idea to kill somebody or rape somebody or steal from somebody.

Maruk said:
The world becomes better when it becomes rich? For wealth to exist, poverty has to as well.
Simply not true. Wealth is a state of well being and having what you need, not the need to have 1000 times more than everybody else and than what you need. GREED requires poverty to exist not wealth. And you missed what jazzc meant with that sentence. He meant for the world to become a better place people need to have their needs covered and not live in a contiguous stress over what they feed their kids tomorrow. That's what causes fear, panic and fighting.

jazzc said:
The plantation slaves were owned legally by the slave masters. If you force me to work for you, I am your slave, it 's totally obvious.
^^^ So much win! The fact something is legal doesn't make it good and the fact something is illegal doesn't make it bad. In some african country it is perfectly legal and socially accepted to cut a woman's clitoris off so she feels no pleasure from sex and won't go and cheat on her husband. In some arab countries it is perfectly legal and socially accepted to hand or stone to death a woman that cheated on her husband.

Maruk said:
For such a large tax budget to exist you need cause. Training is not cause. War is cause. I can't make it any simpler than that.
And there lies a big problem, disguised through lies. Here I could write loads. War today is not a need to defend yourself or of any other kind. War is a BUSINESS. Follow who is in leading positions throughout governments and of what corporations they've worked for and you will start to see some light. They go from director of X corp. to director of CIA or NSA, then back director of X corp. and guess what X corp. always wins the contracts with CIA/NSA and 90% of their contracts come from CIA/NSA. This isn't just in US it is world wide. This is rather simplified, the whole scheme is obscenely intricate and smart but masses are not too smart so they dont see connections. Just feed them political talk shows to take their attention away from what's important towards the unimportant and you're set. Fuck, it didn't even evolved. The strategy has been used for ages, only the tactics change to adapt to the new context.

Maruk said:
You are also required by law to pay X amount of money to taxes. This means you are forced to work to pay taxes. So you are a slave now? By your logic, yes you are. By other logic taxes and draft are reasonable to pay to be able to live in a coherent, save and progressive society.
What you said there is called a logical fallacy. The society is not coherent, safe and progressive because of draft, taxes or the government but because of the people who live in it and the relations and mutual cooperation between them. Yes, paying taxes makes you a slave because it is not a payment for services but to feed idiots with personal agendas. For every $100 you pay in taxes you will benefit of $5 max. For example, you pay health insurance taxes. Then you go to hospital and there you have to pay extra because "they don't have the pills you need" and doctor needs an "incentive", etc. Obviously doesn't happen in every country but in most it does. Government decides to build a bridge/highway/power plant/whatever from your money. However, they give the project to X corp. that charges 5 times more than it should just because they bribed the gov. workers with $10mil. I do not mind paying taxes. I do mind paying taxes and receiving fuck-all in exchange. If I pay money, I expect to benefit from something. That fucking simple!

wuquater said:
To the debate about doing military service or not. Military is deeply connected with politics and as we all know politics is deeply connected with business world. That means military don't necessarily serve for the best of a country. It is your decision if you can identify yourself with the goals/rules/ideology of military. If yes, be true to yourself and go do it. If not then simply avoid it. It is not about right or wrong, it is just about preferences. Nobody is bad/evil just by going to military or in the same sense nobody is an angel just by avoiding military. Just because you born somewhere shouldn't mean that you need to be a part of it. Just take you stuff and leave.
^^^ True.

---

On the conscript vs. professional army. Winning a conflict is not about how much cannon meat you have. It's about the intelligence work, trickery and professionalism (skill/tech/etc.). A huge army doesn't have to be fought. You just have to cut it's head(s) either by threatening+bribing or by just removing them in some way; then replacing with your own head(s) - see Iraq. Then not only you have won against the enemy army but you now own it and control it as your own. The army (a mass of people) is controlled by it's leaders. Control the leaders and you control the army.

Back to conscript vs. professionals, one special forces team can totally fuck up a much larger group of soldiers, obviously not in a direct conflict. But you don't go and send spec. ops. to fight an army, you send them to do "military surgery" - cut an artery and the brain dies, you don't have to bash the entire brain and turn it into paste.

---

Obviously different people have different opinions. I absolutely do not like trying to impose my views or try to convince somebody of something. Everybody thinks whatever he or she wants. What I have a problem with is when I (and others) are FORCED to comply with something just because of some people thinking in a certain way and requiring me to give up my freedom. This is freedom, not the bullshit some of you throw around. Freedom is the ability to not comply with something you do not agree with, without risking repercussions. You want war, torture, ass-fucking, useless taxes and laws? Go ahead and do it all, just don't impose it on me.
 
The military is bad. Join if you have nothing to live for and don't care about your life.
 
I truly give up there is absolutely no sense in continuing this when people don't read.
 
be49e_ORIG-boy_that_escalated_quickly.jpg

I'll refrain to keep replying to this thread because it's turning awfully political and that is against the lounge rules.

Thank you everyone for the good advice.
Thanks jazzc for being sane in this nutcracker debate.
Thanks uyuyuy99 for standing up for me.

I don't want to be a slave, nor have a criminal record, the country I'm planning to live in wouldn't let me in if I had one, so I'll try to follow everyones advice.
 
Alright, well, best of luck, Somebody. I guess this means this crazy debate is over now? :)
Well, that's up for everyone else to decides.

But I think it was over the second someone said that I should get shot in the face to protect the ideals of people I don't like because then I wouldn't be a "kid" anymore.
 
I don't understand what you mean. It is the non-aggression principle. If you try to hit me, I will defend. How else am I going to stop you from hitting me? Bad breath? :)

I don't know. If I was gonna fight someone, and they got me with bad breath, I'd back off haha xD
Just felt like putting a joke in here lol
 
I don't know. If I was gonna fight someone, and they got me with bad breath, I'd back off haha xD
Just felt like putting a joke in here lol

Oh man hahaha, people who fight tend to be in each other face the first few seconds before battle..
 
@JustUs
You missed my point completely. Fear works against the strong too, just needs a different programming - e.g. soldiers will go in a fight even thou they're afraid, but the core fear is not they might die but that the enemy might win and come for their family, torture them, etc. Fear to be hurt is about a real thing. Fear of the boogie man is abstract.

Yes you can be a victim of violence and there's nothing you can do about it. There's always a stronger enemy that can hurt you. Always. Your definition of fearless is that of the bully. The bully doesn't live in fear specifically because he bullies and beats everybody else. It is a false sense of being fearless, power and security.

People do not go to war for survival. Survival can be achieved through cooperation and throughout history smaller tribes combined for this specific reason. Today US spends more on defense than everybody else combined. The entire world's military budget is estimated around 1.7 trillion USD per year. With that money, resources and brains you could solve literally every fucking problem in the world that requires fighting for resources or survival.

"Civilized" and 'Evolved" countries start wars for resources not because they lack resources but because they waste them. The amount of food that is being thrown away by citizens of civilized countries would probably fed half of the starving population of the world. Oil is wasted by driving SUVs and powering the military complex. The resources on earth are abundant and sufficient for a shitload higher population but not if you waste 10 times more than you'd need. Resource sparsity is not a problem because resources are lacking but because of the waste.

We're all victims of propaganda more or less but what I stated are my opinions and haven't got them from books or TV. Is what I think.

Your generalization about prey/predator being at every level from subatomic to galaxies is bullshit. You have no factual data that alien civilizations fight or that other planets are in same unevolved state we are. Considering the age of the universe and the age of Earth we are considered a young planet. Beyond that not all life forms are necessarily material or in the material universe. So to generalize about prey/predator at a universal scale is rather forced.

Again, you completely missed my entire point. I do not think you're completely wrong. You are right regarding many things you talk about but it is YOUR truth from your level. The way I was analyzing war and fighting was from a somewhat different level and perspective.

I did not miss, I approached it head on.

You missed the point that I was getting at. Through history, as is true in today's world, if you have something that someone wants enough, they are going to come and take it. Like it or not, every single thing in this universe survives on the principle of theft of energy. This applies to the stars and galaxies consuming each other right down to the rabbit eating its grass. We can even go right into biology, cooperation for survival is the exception and not the rule.

If you study the branch of mathematics known as Game Theory, you will find that cooperation is a losing proposition. You only cooperate long enough to gain a tactical and strategic advantage. At that point, you press that advantage.

Examining the above, it is the fool that does not prepare for the eventuality of having to defend himself.

Everything that you can think of is the result, most of the time, of propaganda. Levi's are no better a blue jean than some unknown brand or make, but the perception through the effective use of propaganda is that Levi's are the best blue jeans. In my country, the United States, the world perception is that the United States is the best military force in the world. I do not believe that myself, but my beliefs are immaterial to others. However, I will point out that when other countries have problems, they cry to the US for military help. The US is also the single largest contributor, both financially and militarily, to the worlds greatest debate society, the United Nations.

Bringing this down more to the original topic, I find Brazil to be somewhat of an enigma. Before I go to this point, allow me to state that my step mother is a Brazilian native, so I have a little knowledge of that country, the corruption, and the politics. One of the problems that bothers me the most is that Brazil, and many other south of the Mexican border countries, are screaming that the US needs loosen its immigration policies so that their natives can come to this country and consume its resources to send back to their native country. Because business in this country wants an exploitable labor class, after a lot of subterfuge, a change in immigration policies will probably happen. However, nothing is granted for free! Look at the US history for clear evidence of this. Every country the US has ever helped has ended up being controlled by the US.

So, I see the OP wanting to avoid learning how to function with a group in a military operation as a capitulation of his inherent animal right to live. He has no interest in learning how to survive. When the chips are down, he will cry for help from another. You see this every day in world politics. The people of the US are tiring of the Regan era US inspired "Invade them for political (business) purpose" propaganda. Unfortunately, business controls the power and the money, so this war stance is unlikely to end for quite some time. We are left with the historical proposition that Brazil is in line for a take over, and will end up a puppet state of the US. But then again, the US is a puppet state of the nation of Israel. Nothing new.

If the OP [edit] *does not* [/edit]want to play a part in his country being invaded and taken over, either physically or ideologically and de facto, then he has the duty to himself and his nation to learn the "War" game and understand it. By the same token, you have the duty to learn what you are speaking of before you mouth it out.

Historically the most successful colonizing countries, including the Roman Empire and the Islamic invasions of the mid east, took over the countries and then turned them into puppet states with a modicum of self rule. They do this through the effective use of propaganda that creates the illusion of cooperation and self autonomy and self direction. The less successful colonizers used 'Force of Rule." Reading "The Prince" and the "Art of War" should bring this home from historical times. If you want a more current treatment of the issue, I would also suggest "The 48 Laws of Power" and "The Art of Seduction" by Robert Greene. In this reading you have to go beyond the words and grasp at the underlying principles. In Machiavelli's words, "The best leader is loved and Feared. If the Prince cannot be loved, then he must be feared."

My body is a mass of scars. I have been shot and stabbed in deployments for the *dis/service* of my country. I have also been shot, stabbed and fought for my life many times in my own pursuits. I have learned these lesson by experience as well as thought.

I was most amused by the "Occupy Wall Street" movement. The fakers did not want to change anything but who controls the money strings. The Occupiers wanted control of that money string for themselves and not for the general benefit of every one. Greed rules! Of course, anyone that had half a lick of sense could have seen the final outcome. This is also true in the political division arena. The division is to keep the people blind to what is really happening.

Money flows upwards to those that have it. No diversion from that point is lost by the true powers - the money wielders. This includes the 'Peacenik' movement. You are falling into a trap, and you are letting that trap blind you.
 
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I don't know. If I was gonna fight someone, and they got me with bad breath, I'd back off haha xD
Just felt like putting a joke in here lol
A joke? Are you crazy??? We're having a serious debate here, man!
 
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