Are IMers DOOMED in Academic Careers?

Have you attended college / graduated from there?

  • Yes, and I'm good / was good.

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  • Yes but I'm struggling / was struggling.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • No, college? It's just not my thing.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I dropped out.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Other.. Explain below... :)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • im nubcakes and im a dumbass

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0
My case might not be the norm but I am a college dropout and I still managed to score a job at Google. Sometimes companies are looking for something beyond a college degree.
As for me, I don't have the attention span to sit in a classroom for an hour hearing someone talk let alone 5 hours a day or something like that.
 
In Europe it's the other way around (GPA 1.0 = best, 4.0 = worst)

Oh, you're pretty good then. Congratz. :)

The most important thing I learned from my university years was how to learn. The subject was "hard" and that made us build gradually the ability to properly analyze an unknown problem and figure out the steps to tackle it.

That 's invaluable because it can be applied everywhere. The actual things I learned in the university? Never got to using them in the business path I took :o

I don't believe one has to be a millionaire by 25. I believe it 's easier to do it if you build up your skills first.

Regarding the social pressure, I don't give a damn about what other people think about my choices - that said, I always listen and weight everyone 's input because as someone said a few thousand years ago: "The only thing I know is that I don't know shit".

Remember though, to choose is to accept responsibility for your actions. Never judge lightly.

Finally, not all schools are equal. If you go that route, get into the more demanding one you can. Hard work will pay off.

I think I would agree about the how to learn part. The social part though, it's quite different than how you laid it out. Might be the case in other countries but here, not having a college degree not only makes people talk, but when you want to settle down, get married and and start a family, it becomes harder than ever to marry a girl with your social standard.

This is because even if the girl is madly in live with you, her family, most likely her father will frown upon the marriage decision and depending on his personality, may do everything in his power to obstruct it, out of "fear" of his daughter's future. It's complicated here, quite different than the US. The other thing is not only do you need to have a college degree, but rather you need to have a degree from the "top two colleges" which are medical school and engineering. If you go business and management route, you're as good as someone without a degree in the eyes of everyone. It is sad, but unfortunately it's true.

I got a master degree from a business school (Master in management).

What I've learned surely helped me build and run my company (web agency) that I started alone and from scratch.

Congratz, I initially wanted to do that but when I got the Faculty of Engineering's approval (considered to be a WOW here) I just settled there. And I think I'm starting to regret the decision.

Five good reasons to stay in college (apart from the "social status")

1 College girls
2 You can make friends for life
3 College girls
4 College girls
5 College girls

HAHAHAHA Funny thing is that when I read your reply I was on campus with a group of like 6 girls. I really, really couldn't agree more. It's all about the socializing for me. I might stay for hours fooling around in campus without any scheduled lectures just to socialize. Spot on there. :D

I recently graduated from university with a 3.8 GPA. I wouldn't say those are flying colors, but it's good enough to get me into whatever program I might want to do next. I actually enjoy being in school and if I had the money, I'd be a full-time student for the rest of my life (just sitting back and collecting degrees haha).

Other than a couple days before each midterm or final, there is very little work to do in university (maybe a few hours here and there for an assignment). I know many people take their education more seriously and study daily but I never found the need to. Simply put, while in university I had more time to work on IM than I have since.

Both IM and learning are my passions and that's a great combination. As jazz said, learning how to learn is the main thing you learn in university and it's helped immensely in many aspects of my life.

Hats off for your ability to pull that off without college completely eating your life. The way our educational system is put together forces most people to become "lifeless" in order to score proper grades. It's mostly dependent on studying an immense amount of information by heart.

Lmfao Why did you -rep me? :/

I didn't, can't say I was very fond of your comment though. It's your opinion. You deserve to have one.

College parties. Did I motivate you enough?

HAHAHAH as I said above, socializing is just about everything I do in this freaking college. :D

Then in reality it isnt, no genious would ask for spoon fed methods like you do in every thread. If you are genius , then im elephant.

Hey settle down folks, it's fine. He has an opinion, I don't like it nor like the way he put it together and it's kind of offensive but it still doesn't mean we should all start a neg rep war on him. Chill, folks :D

Long story short, I didn't get the grades to get into University. My plan was to go to London and study video game programming.

Knowing I wasn't going to Uni and had shitty grades, at 18 I had two choices... 1) Get a job at a super market / mcdonalds ... 2) Become a full time freelance web developer.

After a couple weeks I had no leads as there was no way I could compete with the bigger fish in my city or much cheaper indian coders. I tried to get a young persons business loan, but was denied. So I signed up to the government unemployment benefits and used that money each week for 3 months to pay for adwords and various other advertising methods.

After that it was plain sailing, I landed some huge clients, built up a name for myself and got tonnes of work from word of mouth.

At only 20 I was earning more than most uni graduates and was living a hugely improved social / party lifestyle compared to those in uni. Things have only grown since then.

One of my closet friends also didn't make it into uni. He has one of the highest earning websites out of my small IM friendship group and is in the beginning stages of setting up a huge business.

Majority of people I know who did go to uni I don't see that often because "I have no money" or "I haven't been paid yet" .... They either work in bars or are on other minimum wage part time jobs.

From what I've seen more often than not a uni degrees don't go hand in hand with huge ambition.

Motivation and persistence equals wealth and success. Not any academic qualification.

Absolutely great and inspiring story. Thank you for taking the time to share. I'm surprised things are tough like that even in London, thought most of the job issues were mainly based in 3rd world countries.

My case might not be the norm but I am a college dropout and I still managed to score a job at Google. Sometimes companies are looking for something beyond a college degree.
As for me, I don't have the attention span to sit in a classroom for an hour hearing someone talk let alone 5 hours a day or something like that.

WOW! Congratz. That doesn't motivate me that much to keep going in college though...ahahah. I'm like "that guy works for google and he didn't go through my hell!". I know you might have a lot of skills that I don't, but still the idea itself makes me want to throw all the books away.

Great hearing your stories and opinions everyone. :)
 
What I learned in school was to put up with assholes in positions of superiority (teachers) that many times had 10% of my skills.

I literally had an Operating Systems (C network programming in Linux) teacher who wanted to fail me at the exam because I didn't wrote the program as in his book. I didn't bought his book but knew from the others the programs don't work well. I looked at the programs and all of them opened TCP or UDP port but never closed it so any subsequent execution would trigger an exception because the port could not be open (was open by previous execution). My program was using a C library for network programming and I literally wrote 5 lines of code so the teacher wanted to fail me because he didn't understood what the code did. I literally told him I dare him to a contest. I give him a program theme and he gives me one and if I do it and he can't he quits his job as a teacher. If is the other way I quit college. He went nuts when I told him that. He passed me and told me never to come at his class again.

Had another C teacher who gave us a program to build. I told him there's already a function in C for that. He replied "don't you think I'd knew if it was one". Told him functio name he insisted there's no such function and I have to copy this 2 page program from the blackboard and compile it. I played Need For Speed the entire duration of the class. 1 minute before the end wrote the function call in main() and showed him. He stuttered and said this must be in newer C version. It was a 6 years old Borland C++ compiler. After class (lab) he told me he wants to talk to me in private. Told me he thinks I'm good enough and don't have to attend his class anymore and will give me a 10 at the end.

Had a C++ MPI / paralel processing lab teacher who I taught about some stuff he didn't knew. Had same teacher at Computer Graphics (in MS-DOS C rofl). Told him i'm not interested to learn 5 years old graphics and I don't want to attend but I want a 7 for lab exam. He got pissed that I must learn that class because is important. Told him I did an entire game engine in OpenGL from tutorials 1 year ago. He asked me from where I took the tutorial so he looks over it. Took him 4 DVDs with OpenGL, DirectX, 3DSMax tutorials. He agreed I don't attend, gave me a 10 at lab exam (I actually had to attend the exam but learned how to do the programs in class 30min before - had to draw a clock on screen). Next semester graphics in C# - exam program required guess what?! A clock in a Windows GUI/window :D

The C++ MPI / paralel processing course teacher failed me 2 times in exam for same reason - I did not wrote the answers as in his book. I had to write about multi-processing and multi-threading. This was a 5/10 points question. Wrote 2 pages spot on. He denied what I wrote even when I showed him on a friend's laptop the same explanations from Wikipedia and a few other sites. It was black on white in his face and he would keep saying "that's not how I explained it".

Had a Java teacher that I taught him during an exam that he can throw exceptions out in cascade all the way to main and not have to handle them. The exam problem was to create a program (that on purpose triggered an exception). I just threw it out and he was like WTF is this. He was a very nice guy and knew I'm good at programming not an asshole like most. He didn't tried to play smart and cool he told me he frankly didn't knew about throwing exceptions out and I could see he's not upset like most would have been but happy he learned something new.

Had an asshole teacher make me do a LISP program to calculate sin(x) = 14. I was after 10 hours of re-testing sessions at 5 other classes I previously failed, stressed, pissed, tired, eat nothing all day, had 2 packs of cigs... Didn't even realized it's a trap question. He passed me anyway but he was an asshole, he always likes to show everybody how dumb they are and how smart he is. But at least he always passed up eventually.

Had bunch of classes unrelated to IT - sports, chemistry, physics, mechanics, etc.

Had classes I wanted to learn and even had good teachers at them (digital electronics) but I was so overloaded by failed exams at other classes that never got to learn these as I wished.

Even had a good math teacher which eve though I suck at math had such a well layd out course that I was able to figure out during the exam (he allowed us with any materials) how to solve the problems even though i never attended her class.

Had all sorts of teachers and most of them were grown-up children (though old of age) with complexes. Always treated us like a guardian treats inmates, always assholes, always making use of their position of power. Hated that.

All I learned in college was how to put up with assholes and mentally survive an environment filled with stress. But I saw my on interest and I had my own path and goal and worked towards that instead of trying to learn for useless classes.

Final exam for the diploma was the easiest. Got a 7.5 because there was an unwritten rule that they're not supposed to give more than 1 point above my final average from college (I had a 6.05 final average). I was an exception, they gave me 1.5 points. Asked the college secretary twice to go and re-check that I have 6.05 because they could not believe it. They even said I had the best presentation (out of 90% of all my colleagues they examined that day, 10% were the other day). I got a 7.5 though they wanted to give me a 10 because of that "rule". A girl coleague with a shit presentation who could not make a difference between a class, an interface and a drunk monkey got a 10 because she had a 9.5 final average.

I would have quit after first 3 years but under the pressure from my parents I didn't. That's my only regret, that I stayed there and wasted my time and got overstressed for nothing because what somebody else wanted. Bottom line is, what doesn't kill you makes you stronger, and buy did that whole experience made me strong...
 
Currently in 2nd year College, i still have 4 years ahead to leave it :/
 
I had no one pushing me to go to college and until my senior year of high school, I had no interest in going. My GPA was below 2.0 and I was not motivated but always felt that I could do something big (and still do). So at the last minute I decided to go to college and put my computer skills to use.

A few months into it I realized that computers were a hobby and that I did not want to make a living fixing and working with (different than on) computers. So I dropped out and transferred to a business school. I went on to get my MBA.

Do I use everything from school for my IM business? No, not at all. But do I use stuff I learned in school for my IM business that I would not learn from BHW and other forums? Yes, yes I do.

I do not think you need a MBA and maybe not a bachelor, but have a good understanding of business.
 
I got my associates degree with a perfect 4.0 (which is best where I am). I use what I learned all the time but it has nothing to do with my IM career.

I didn't view college as a means to a high paying job. I viewed it as a means to gain knowledge. Going to college to learn to make money is frivolous. Unfortunately that is the primary reason that people go to college. What they find is that college puts them into debt and they still know very little about how to make money.
 
Five good reasons to stay in college (apart from the "social status")

1 College girls
2 You can make friends for life
3 College girls
4 College girls
5 College girls
+1 for the college girls lol ;)
 
I have a BSc Econ and a MSc in Management & Marketing.

Due to university & subsequent degrees it has enabled me to land a top marketing job in a company that turns over $20 billion a year.

I'm fairly young (22), and the the future is what I make of it- I have this opportunity due to staying in school and university, there is no way I would be where I am without it.

Since joining the company the learning curve has been massive, which is great. NEVER STOP LEARNING. I suggest, stay education and develop your skill set. However, at the end of the day it is personal preference and down to the individual. Some 'uneducated' people will achieve more than the 'educated', and vice versa.

This world is what you make of it.
 
Both lead to the same goal really. Get job - better life- better wife etc etc. And IM- A bit faster better life- *no comments on wife* etc etc.

I was in the same position as you. I took a decision against the normal society and till date I haven't regretted it. Although I am relatively new to IM as well. But do remember one thing, if you do leave college, you need to learn your entire life to improve yourself as you don't have the so called security of a job.

But these are just my views. It depends on yours as well. I am assuming you are from India/Pakistan??


Hey man I just had the same thing. Problem was I earned big money before I got in University. So I wasn't motived. Anyway I still like my life but I have the feeling society want me to be working. But I don't want to "be another brick in the wall". I want to have total control over my life!

Like I read before on BHW: Plan A is less likely to succeed when you have a plan B

- Karibo -
 
Coyote Assassin, I have been reading tons of your posts and you seem like you have your stuff together when it comes to email marketing and your business philosophy and insights. I'm new to the forum and I would love to ask you a few questions privately as you seem to always give your honest opinion with no hidden agendas except to help people but I do not have the required 15 post to private message you. Could you please message me and thanks again for your many insightful posts.
 
@madoctopus

You are a genius! I also did C++ and Java.. but that is just to clear the tests.. lol..
Your post shows that, collage ain't necessary to learn things.. its the sheer passion and the interest.. with which you can learn everything on your own..
I am highly motivated by your post to take my education seriously and be learned like you! :)
 
I'm taking my master in law, but I have a really hard time to motivate myself to study I even hang around on this forum during the seminars.
Only got 6 months left though and then I probably will choose my IM career anyway.
I just want a Master in law so I can use it as an argument if someone says that IM is inferioer to other careers.
 
I have been fortunate enough to have some pretty brilliant professors, there has been the odd duck here or there but life goes on. The workload can be retarded high but watching a fifty year old guy come in a room and stun a bunch of jaded 20-somethings into silence with the power of his mind is worth the price of admission every time. Enjoying what you do is critical as well.

Here is a hint - not all programs (nor universities for that matter) are created equal. A BA in a liberal arts is probably not going to be as benefitial to your career development as one in the hard sciences. Anyone on here telling you in a few sentences that you should/shouldn't pursue higher education suffers from a greatly oversimplified view of the world. The most important thing to learn is how to think for yourself.

How is that for a logic trap :D
 
I have been fortunate enough to have some pretty brilliant professors, there has been the odd duck here or there but life goes on. The workload can be retarded high but watching a fifty year old guy come in a room and stun a bunch of jaded 20-somethings into silence with the power of his mind is worth the price of admission every time. Enjoying what you do is critical as well.

Here is a hint - not all programs (nor universities for that matter) are created equal. A BA in a liberal arts is probably not going to be as benefitial to your career development as one in the hard sciences. Anyone on here telling you in a few sentences that you should/shouldn't pursue higher education suffers from a greatly oversimplified view of the world. The most important thing to learn is how to think for yourself.

How is that for a logic trap :D

I just had a discrete mathematics midterm exam a few hours ago and since then whenever I hear "logic", I feel like I'm gonna throw up. Exam was 5 questions, was only able to solve 3 of them (and I'm not even 50% sure of any of them) and I left the other two empty.

Good thing is most colleagues started swearing and saying pretty nasty stuff about the professor directly after the exam.

During the exam I, and 3 other people were at the very back of the examination hall and there was a space in front of us, separating us from the rest of the examination room.

The professor approached me with a big grin saying:

Prof. "I don't like how you guys are separated from the rest of the students, particular reason?" (he was signifying we were trying to cheat, we weren't)
Me: Well, it doesn't really matter, sir. (signifying that none of us can solve shit anyway yet help others)
Prof. (looking at one of my other friends and bursting out laughing) "I knew he'd say that!"
And I was like -.-

He seemed to take extreme pleasure in torturing student. In our college, unfortunately, the vast majority is similar to him.
 
i've done high school and now i learning IM. That's only thing that concern me right know.

But lately i'm thinking, maybe i really need to get well-educated on my field. So guys, maybe you can give me an advice on this one. I really appreciate for every advices
smile.png
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Why would you -rep me lol? What did i do? School is for weak people I dont need no education cuz I was born genius :)

If you are such a fucking hardman, why not figure out the answer instead of ebegging.
 
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