And we begin!

VisualA said:

Well, Merry Christmas everyone! I had a lovely Christmas present this week.

Project 1) Revamp the laptop/cellphone setup to incorporate a gateway hub I just ordered off of Amazon (should be here in a few days) (its christmas so it'll take a while).

Project 2) Freak out that my bot warming system is taking too long.

Sometime around Christmas Eve, I became a bit frustrated that my bot warming system was taking a bit too long and may not have been all that effective in convincing these platforms that I am a hundred "perfectly normal" users. So, I decided to test one on Google to see if I could setup an account. It did not go well. Google immediately threw me at the phone verification screen, even after warming these accounts for fourteen days. I got a little angry.

And I decided "Fine!" You know what? Fine! You want a phone number? I'll give you one. So, I did a bit of research and found smspva.com, I don't know if they have a presence here on BHW but their discount code sure seemed to work (lol) and sometime last night I found myself funding an account and ready to summon phone numbers out of thin air and hit them with SMS verification. It sucks that I had failed to properly warm these accounts but desperate times call for....

And Google didn't prompt me. I setup the account, then reddit, then goodreads and amazon. No SMS required. So I moved on to the next account and same thing... no phone number required. In that span of two days, the warming process appears to have reached the magic number of 100% trustability. I went from profile to profile setting up accounts. Google had no issue at all. It was like Google's Christmas present to me. Everything worked np. No phone required.

View attachment 406691

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What's the scale of gmails you create? You should really try to avoid adding a 3rd party phone number to your account. Otherwise Google can just randomly ask for another SMS verification and your account is gone because those verification sites don't have the same number for a longer period of time.

AllOutAnime said:

What's the scale of gmails you create? You should really try to avoid adding a 3rd party phone number to your account. Otherwise Google can just randomly ask for another SMS verification and your account is gone because those verification sites don't have the same number for a longer period of time.

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Currently, I am juggling 100 accounts.

Two things:

1) Although I was prepared to do SMS verification, Google dropped the requirement after the accounts were properly warmed. Currently, I have about five accounts (out of the hundred) that were set up with SMS. Following verification, the phone numbers were unattached and deleted from those accounts.

2) I hope you are wrong about Google's sudden desire to SMS verify, however if they do, I suspect there is a mechanic that will allow me to use another phone number with those accounts. Especially since the previous number was scrubbed from the original account. My reasoning is that it would be very difficult for Google to demand verification from the original phone number when they themselves do not know the original phone.

From what I have seen of these platforms, there appears to be a wide range of requirements from company to company. Whereas some (Like discord) will demand a phone number and will only ever accept the one you declared. Others appear to be comfortable with just about any number.

Also there appears to be a tiered scale of what they require depending upon what services you are using. For example, if I wanted to setup Google wallet, I am certain they would want something like a credit card or bank account number.

VisualA said:

Currently, I am juggling 100 accounts.

Two things:

1) Although I was prepared to do SMS verification, Google dropped the requirement after the accounts were properly warmed. Currently, I have about five accounts (out of the hundred) that were set up with SMS. Following verification, the phone numbers were unattached and deleted from those accounts.

2) I hope you are wrong about Google's sudden desire to SMS verify, however if they do, I suspect there is a mechanic that will allow me to use another phone number with those accounts. Especially since the previous number was scrubbed from the original account. My reasoning is that it would be very difficult for Google to demand verification from the original phone number when they themselves do not know the original phone.

From what I have seen of these platforms, there appears to be a wide range of requirements from company to company. Whereas some (Like discord) will demand a phone number and will only ever accept the one you declared. Others appear to be comfortable with just about any number.

Also there appears to be a tiered scale of what they require depending upon what services you are using. For example, if I wanted to setup Google wallet, I am certain they would want something like a credit card or bank account number.

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Google is unpredictable. If they notice a strange pattern from you, they will give you hell. You really think they "delete" the number you used initially? They will just not show to you they still have it but in case of a verification they can still require you to use the first number. Also for Gmails to remain active over time you usually need to use those accounts. Just warming up before creation is not enough, you need to use the accounts to still browse Google products and Youtube.
Internally they have some score of your account and if it goes below a certain threshold they will ask for verifications. When I did a test with mailing from gmail accounts, the activity of the account directly correlated with inbox rate to gmail.
If an in-active account would send, the message would go to spam and if an active account that used youtube everyday would send the email, it would go to inbox.

I'm still looking for a way to create and maintain gmail accounts at scale.

VisualA said:

If I only ever do one stupid thing in my life... let it be this.
I can become the internet. And when someone pulls out their kindle and goes looking for something to read, all they will find is me. And me. And me. And me again. Also me. With me, myself and another person who is also me. I will be everywhere and the only reality they can expect to find is the one I crafted for them.

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AllOutAnime said:

Google is unpredictable. If they notice a strange pattern from you, they will give you hell. You really think they "delete" the number you used initially? They will just not show to you they still have it but in case of a verification they can still require you to use the first number. Also for Gmails to remain active over time you usually need to use those accounts. Just warming up before creation is not enough, you need to use the accounts to still browse Google products and Youtube.
Internally they have some score of your account and if it goes below a certain threshold they will ask for verifications. When I did a test with mailing from gmail accounts, the activity of the account directly correlated with inbox rate to gmail.
If an in-active account would send, the message would go to spam and if an active account that used youtube everyday would send the email, it would go to inbox.

I'm still looking for a way to create and maintain gmail accounts at scale.

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1) I'm not sure how long they hold on to information they have gleamed from a user. It is safe to say that they have a core set of details that they never forget, however it is impractical to think that they hold onto everything forever. For example, I know that they hold on to telephone numbers because they often deny SMS verification for account setup that has been used too many times. However, I also know that they base a lot of their reactions off of cookie data and flags they have stored client side on a user's browser. However a phone number which is used to setup an account is not stored in the same way than a number they have used to SMS verify.

And this makes sense. Normal, average users will do strange things throughout their lifecycle. They buy new phones, change jobs, move to other cities, buy new computers, change browsers. Google has to be ready to adapt to these changes or else they would systematically ban everyone for suspicious activity in the first few weeks.

I have a tech friend who has worked for Google affiliated companies in a similar role. One of the first things he said to me was that Google isn't setup to combat bad actors so they invest their efforts in "wasting their time". I suspect this is why they default to trust scores rather than detection/blocking methods. It is a very interesting topic. And in many ways it gives me a greater respect for dolphin anty because they have created a system that allows users to collect cookies PER browser. The idea is that over time you'll build trust simply by having a recognizable browser presenting authentic cookies.

2) Part of my bot script involves opening gmail and just poking around (like I'm reading my mail), however this is not really essential to my core operation. I wanted the Gmail account(s) because it would allow me to setup Amazon/Goodreads/Reddit without any hassle. If, down the road, Google decides to deactivate some or all of those gmail accounts, it really won't affect my core purpose because Amazon/Goodreads/Reddit is already set up and auto-logs me in with no questions asked. So, Google shouldn't shut those accounts down (because they are being constantly warmed) but if they do then it will not set me back.

3) You said that "I'm still looking for a way to create and maintain gmail accounts at scale." And I can see why that would be seriously difficult. In fact, it appears that most of their systems have been set up with the specific purpose of stopping that from happening. You can do like I have done and use a rotating mobile proxy with an anti-detect browser and just keep warming them on a continual loop but there are limits to the amount of accounts you can keep in a system like that. From start to finish, my bots take 8 to 12 minutes a piece. That averages out to a thousand minute run which is about sixteen hours.

It may be more practical to create 'pre-cursor' accounts (bots) that can be upgraded to gmail accounts the moment you need them. But juggling more than 100 gmail accounts on a single setup sounds like it would be a complicated task.

fielddigger said:

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Two weeks gone by.

Money and pressure is sapping my will. But I know it is just the winter months hitting me in the feels.

UPDATE:

Bots work perfectly and all 100 are carefully picking through google/reddit/amazon/goodreads. But I can't shake the feeling that I am wasting my time. The words of many a BHW regular comes back to haunt me "Just advertise", "Whaddya doing?", "So what? You manipulated a few select places for a brief moment in time what will this really do in the long run?"

Okay, I added that last part. But can we really say it is wrong? The audiobook is in full swing and following that I am going to lay into the advertising HARD. I want to keep my bots fresh in the run up to the advertising push but I suspect my days as a blackhatter may be drawing to a close.

I essentially accomplished everything I set out to do... only to realize that I am kinda being an idiot. But maybe not. Maybe I am just too hard on myself. Maybe it will all come together in the end and achieve critical mass in a grand finale where every single one of my efforts had some deeper contribution to my ultimate victory.



Or perhaps I'll just screw around like this for another few years until I trip over a random thing that puts me in the right place at the right time.

So for right now it is...

1) Audiobook completion.

2) Advertising blitz instagram/tiktok/google.

3) Bot reinforcement.

I am still alive! Still fighting the good fight. "Taking fire but moving forward" - Garen, Mass Effect 2.

VisualA said:

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Don't worry about what others are saying. Keep pushing on.

1. Make sure you have enough money left to survive if this plan fails (and you learn from it)

2. Get some vit d, zinc , yoga mat, resistance band etc (topping off my vitamins and minerals and training daily helps me in winter more than in summer)

3. I'm snatching that image and putting it in my psychedelics images folder

4. Even if the method fails, there will probably be specific parts of the method, or skills you learned during the method ; that will be useful to you in the future



EDIT

5. Only you know when the method has come to an end

fielddigger said:

Don't worry about what others are saying. Keep pushing on.

1. Make sure you have enough money left to survive if this plan fails (and you learn from it)

2. Get some vit d, zinc , yoga mat, resistance band etc (topping off my vitamins and minerals and training daily helps me in winter more than in summer)

3. I'm snatching that image and putting it in my psychedelics images folder

4. Even if the method fails, there will probably be specific parts of the method, or skills you learned during the method ; that will be useful to you in the future



EDIT

5. Only you know when the method has come to an end

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If failure is an option, you will always fail. The mindset must be that "failure is not an option" to succeed. Otherwise you will just not try hard enough and fail.
Every time I had an "alternative" or back-up, I failed.

What were you thinking when you opened this topic? : )

sounds like a promising journey, all the best

So.

I just lurked this entire thread, and i have a few questions. First the basics, im trying to get some publicity for my yt and similar accounts in the vain attempt of getting famous at some point. I also agree woth your thesis point that if the internet is dead, it should be dead with my content.

So, as someone whos put this into practice, are you seeing any real results? You mentioned it can feel like a waste of time, why?

Also on a more practical level what media sites give the best roi? Ive been manually making reddit accounts for the past few days but they keep getting flyswatted down when i try to post with them.

AllOutAnime said:

If failure is an option, you will always fail. The mindset must be that "failure is not an option" to succeed. Otherwise you will just not try hard enough and fail.
Every time I had an "alternative" or back-up, I failed.

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That idea is very unrealistic and unhealthy and usually sold by shit self-development gurus online

Tell me a single endeavor in life where failure is 0% option...

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It's healthier to see it in the following way ---- winning the war vs winning the battles

---------------

If this guy succeeds, cool

If he retreats, that's cool too. He decides to consolidate his remaining power and new knowledge and use that power in another battle

vs

Let's burn all these fucking ships so we can't go back home, we are now stranded in enemy territory so it's do or die boizzz
''failure is not an option'' , no backups etc

---------------

my hypothesis
The reason why you failed is not because you had a backup. It's because your backup didn't have a backup and that backup didn't have another backup.

You made Plan B, but you should have made C-D-E-F-G to Z (as far as possible)

My Plan X is to continue being a dishwasher/cleaner as I am now
My plan Y is to become a criminal
My plan Z is to become a violent criminal

I'll most likely (99.99%) never get to implement plan Y and Z, because there are literal safety nets that I can not remove.

1. My country government takes care of it's citizens who are down on their ''luck''

2. I have a large family (hundreds of people).

So worst case scenario I'll always have a food clothing shelter and no real reason to become a criminal ever

I do suspect that these safety nets in the back of my mind lowers my ability to take risks though -- I can't say by how much -- but it's vaguely noticeably there


Obviously all this is just the opinion of some fucking guy on the internet (me)

fielddigger said:

That idea is very unrealistic and unhealthy and usually sold by shit self-development gurus online

Tell me a single endeavor in life where failure is 0% option...

---------------

It's healthier to see it in the following way ---- winning the war vs winning the battles

---------------

If this guy succeeds, cool

If he retreats, that's cool too. He decides to consolidate his remaining power and new knowledge and use that power in another battle

vs

Let's burn all these fucking ships so we can't go back home, we are now stranded in enemy territory so it's do or die boizzz
''failure is not an option'' , no backups etc

---------------

my hypothesis
The reason why you failed is not because you had a backup. It's because your backup didn't have a backup and that backup didn't have another backup.

You made Plan B, but you should have made C-D-E-F-G to Z (as far as possible)

My Plan X is to continue being a dishwasher/cleaner as I am now
My plan Y is to become a criminal
My plan Z is to become a violent criminal

I'll most likely (99.99%) never get to implement plan Y and Z, because there are literal safety nets that I can not remove.

1. My country government takes care of it's citizens who are down on their ''luck''

2. I have a large family (hundreds of people).

So worst case scenario I'll always have a food clothing shelter and no real reason to become a criminal ever

I do suspect that these safety nets in the back of my mind lowers my ability to take risks though -- I can't say by how much -- but it's vaguely noticeably there


Obviously all this is just the opinion of some fucking guy on the internet (me)

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The psychology why it works or does not work is easy.
We are humans, we have feelings. If you have 10 backups you will slack off (maybe without realizing).
Being successful is eating shit again and again. If you are with your back against the wall you are far more ready to do it than if you have a safety net.
You might watch a movie instead of doing the things that move you forward and it's those little things that keep you from achieving the goals.
Staying in the comfort zone without doing what needs to be done.

Failure is defined individually for everybody, it doesn't mean you have to be homeless on the streets, it could also just be loosing a game of chess.
For some people the thought of loosing a game in chess is so devastating that they would rather die and this is why they come out at the top.

Your game plan seems solid. Best of luck with it!

AllOutAnime said:

The psychology why it works or does not work is easy.
We are humans, we have feelings. If you have 10 backups you will slack off (maybe without realizing).
Being successful is eating shit again and again. If you are with your back against the wall you are far more ready to do it than if you have a safety net.
You might watch a movie instead of doing the things that move you forward and it's those little things that keep you from achieving the goals.
Staying in the comfort zone without doing what needs to be done.

Failure is defined individually for everybody, it doesn't mean you have to be homeless on the streets, it could also just be loosing a game of chess.
For some people the thought of loosing a game in chess is so devastating that they would rather die and this is why they come out at the top.

Click to expand...

Your points are true in some cases, but are they true in this person's instance?

--------

Which person that sees losing at chess as failure has ever come out on top without ever losing?

There is not end, the end is at the grave. It's a spiral up or spiral down or stagnation

You say everyone defines failure differently but I disagree

Failure is defined the same for everybody.

Because the hypothetical chess player that'd rather die than lose at chess is doing this for the same reason as why everyone else is doing whatever they are doing. Status and power and ultimately survival


Either worldly self-preservation style survival, or ''lofty'' survival , such as the survival of ones honor, ideas, ideals etc.

It's the same

It's why most people feel attacked when you criticize their values/ideas etc ---- because it has become them

It's also why both me and you are defending our own points of views here --- survival

obviously mine is better

RobberyADS said:

What were you thinking when you opened this topic? : )

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What was I thinking? OMG, where am I? How did I get here?

I suspect the end goal was "Astroturf a grassroots movement to push my book towards popularity" and the reason I am starting to doubt it is because I see how much of this money could be going towards content production and advertising. But I am not disillusioned. Not yet at least. If the advertising phase turns out to be 100000000000% more effective however....

Arbiter8080 said:

I also agree woth your thesis point that if the internet is dead, it should be dead with my content.

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1) Results I am seeking: I guess this is the part of the film where someone asks the villain why he is doing all this and it would not do to shrug and say "Ummm... not sure". The problem is that I saw all of this as more of an abstract goal and convinced myself with assurances that it would be a learning experience. In fairness, it has been. The goal is 'Brand Recognition' or 'Simple Exposure'. Unfortunately, I may have severely underestimated the size of the internet. If I can grab a thousand 'genuine users' and thoroughly educate them on the idea that my product exists and it is 'A thing', thats fine, but that won't make them care. It is also something that will not be remembered tomorrow. Ultimately, I need a better way to measure the impact that I am having. Getting chatgpt, gemini and google to confirm that people have mentioned my product and it could be 'a thing' is not enough to bring me satisfaction. I need more. I need bigger. And I'm not sure what that is yet. I suspect that growing to the size of the 'Overlord' community is my end goal. I want people to make memes about characters in my book. When I see that, then I will return to the hell that spawned me.

2) ROI: There hasn't really been an ROI yet. Except for that one random person who bought my book (still trying to figure out who that was and how he found it). In a mad scramble to get 5 star reviews on amazon (because who knows, that one guy might say something negative) I ran to fiverr and got some help buying copies of books and preparing five star reviews for publication. It was a knee jerk reaction which kinda flew in the face of my overall master plan but, I mean, that one guy... he could give my book 1 star and then I'm advertising from a place of disadvantage, I don't want that. I need maximum advantage. So really there has been no ROI yet, really it could just be a very silly idea ultimately. In fact, if I drop an advertisement next month and Stephen King tweets out that he loves my book then all of this preparation will have been for nothing because I'll be hyper-famous. But still, we can't think like that. I need proper astroturfing and I need to crank it up to eleven so that when someone sees my advertisement they will get the impression that I'm already on top. "Wow, thats that thing I've heard so much about!"

3) Reddit is a fickle beast, I find that using gmail accounts to set up installs a lot of trust and legitimacy. Also it doesn't hurt to warm them up a bit in the weeks before you actually try to make an account. You have to let their automation see you, get to know you, give you some cookies. Don't just make an account with them, let them proposition you. Make them want it.

fielddigger said:

Obviously all this is just the opinion of some fucking guy on the internet (me)

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Yeah but I read it.

Have you considered that perhaps you would be a lousy violent criminal? I mean sure you could take risks, but you don't want to be that guy that the other criminals ridicule. "Look at him pistol whipping people, his heart just isn't in it. Its like he knows that he doesn't have to be doing this."