tothesummit
Newbie
- May 7, 2013
- 28
- 4
Agree to 100% though i think that fresh 2.0 links ala senuke will be worthless soon
A Long View Perspective on Penguin 2.0
- Thread starter Scritty
- Start date
Agree to 100% though i think that fresh 2.0 links ala senuke will be worthless soon
lancis
Elite Member
- Jul 31, 2010
- 1,682
- 2,443
I too wonder about how fast people judge what Google has to offer. Moreover, I don't understand how so many fall for that "expert analysis".
Being on the algorithmic end, I can understand the scale of the problem Google is facing. Their algorithms are ill, and they try to cure the symptoms. The illness I'm speaking about is the backlink based approach - its no longer serves its purpose, moreover it hurts the Internet as a whole.
How many spun articles have you posted during the last year? 10, 100, 100, 10000?
How many useful articles have you posted during the last year? 1, 10, 100?
In the best case 1 of 10 articles is not a garbage on the Internet, and the attribution for that state of things goes to Google. They try to solve the problem they created by themselves. The thing is, they cannot solve that problem without changing their approach entirely. All they can do is close some of the holes, and the worse part, once they close a hole, 10 new holes appear (or the old holes open once again).
So no matter how Google calls its patches, you can be assured that SEO will never die as long as backlinks are the heart of search engines approach.
Being on the algorithmic end, I can understand the scale of the problem Google is facing. Their algorithms are ill, and they try to cure the symptoms. The illness I'm speaking about is the backlink based approach - its no longer serves its purpose, moreover it hurts the Internet as a whole.
How many spun articles have you posted during the last year? 10, 100, 100, 10000?
How many useful articles have you posted during the last year? 1, 10, 100?
In the best case 1 of 10 articles is not a garbage on the Internet, and the attribution for that state of things goes to Google. They try to solve the problem they created by themselves. The thing is, they cannot solve that problem without changing their approach entirely. All they can do is close some of the holes, and the worse part, once they close a hole, 10 new holes appear (or the old holes open once again).
So no matter how Google calls its patches, you can be assured that SEO will never die as long as backlinks are the heart of search engines approach.
Scritty
Elite Member
- May 1, 2010
- 3,019
- 4,707
I agree - but will add that I was doing SEO several years before I gave a toss about Google.
Alta Vista, Yahoo, Lycos, Microsoft Search ... all open to SEO - whether it's backlink based or not.
Whatever metric they use - SEO will exist. As long as their are search engines - people will try and optimize their site/method.approach to marketing to get a better ranking in them - link based or not.
Blind keyword stuffing was all it took 17 years ago (white text on a white background stuffed with relative words and phrases - only seen if you "drag clicked" your mouse across the page)
The "META DATA" was important - and then it's synergy with your own site content.
Then speed and for a while even server type. Sitemaps were the absolute top for almost a year. Optimized site maps that attracted the crawlers and were as complete as possible. Many sites didn't have them (none of this easy "Wordpress site map" plugin back then - you wrote your owm...URL by URL)
Wierd stuff like micro adjustments to a page to "freshen" it worked for a while.
Some people had tools/methods/systems for all this stuff (SEO automation) Keyword relevancy was quite early on the agenda (very simple - but initially very effective)
All of this was years before Google cared about links. All of it was SEO..and all of it could be gamed by those in the know.
Welcome to 1996
Scritty
dotcomdesigns
Power Member
- May 16, 2009
- 673
- 655
I started in 96 too with my first dating site. I wasn't really into the SEO side of things back then. For me it was getting listed in Dmoz. That was the be all and end all. Get listed on there and you were sorted! I even became an editor for the UK dating region. Geezz, I just realized I was blackhatting back then without even knowing it LOL.
The Yahoo directory was another major player too. Dmoz and Yahoo would list sites alphabetically and we were all scrambling to come up with domain names beginning with 'A'. So you had Alpha dating, which was knocked down by Abacus dating which was then knocked down by Aardvark dating, seriously I kid you not. Aardvark dating FFS! The numerals could top the list, A1dating.com was created, A100 and so on.
If you chose a domain name beginning with X, Y or Z, you were screwed at the bottom of the listings. Then we had Goto.com which became Overture com which sold out to Yahoo. That was the first of the Adwords style of search and I made a mint with this. Oh happy days...
You know I did try the white text on white background keyword stuffing too. What's more frightening is there are sites still out there doing this today.
But yeah, while G bases its results on links we'll keep on fighting it with link building. Or they could go back to the directory route - I've already secured A1paydayloans just in case
The Yahoo directory was another major player too. Dmoz and Yahoo would list sites alphabetically and we were all scrambling to come up with domain names beginning with 'A'. So you had Alpha dating, which was knocked down by Abacus dating which was then knocked down by Aardvark dating, seriously I kid you not. Aardvark dating FFS! The numerals could top the list, A1dating.com was created, A100 and so on.
If you chose a domain name beginning with X, Y or Z, you were screwed at the bottom of the listings. Then we had Goto.com which became Overture com which sold out to Yahoo. That was the first of the Adwords style of search and I made a mint with this. Oh happy days...
You know I did try the white text on white background keyword stuffing too. What's more frightening is there are sites still out there doing this today.
But yeah, while G bases its results on links we'll keep on fighting it with link building. Or they could go back to the directory route - I've already secured A1paydayloans just in case
I agree - but will add that I was doing SEO several years before I gave a toss about Google.
Alta Vista, Yahoo, Lycos, Microsoft Search ... all open to SEO - whether it's backlink based or not.
Whatever metric they use - SEO will exist. As long as their are search engines - people will try and optimize their site/method.approach to marketing to get a better ranking in them - link based or not.
Blind keyword stuffing was all it took 17 years ago (white text on a white background stuffed with relative words and phrases - only seen if you "drag clicked" your mouse across the page)
The "META DATA" was important - and then it's synergy with your own site content.
Then speed and for a while even server type. Sitemaps were the absolute top for almost a year. Optimized site maps that attracted the crawlers and were as complete as possible. Many sites didn't have them (none of this easy "Wordpress site map" plugin back then - you wrote your owm...URL by URL)
Wierd stuff like micro adjustments to a page to "freshen" it worked for a while.
Some people had tools/methods/systems for all this stuff (SEO automation) Keyword relevancy was quite early on the agenda (very simple - but initially very effective)
All of this was years before Google cared about links. All of it was SEO..and all of it could be gamed by those in the know.
Welcome to 1996
Scritty
teague
Junior Member
- Nov 5, 2008
- 119
- 49
Thanks Guys! I've truly enjoyed this walk down memory lane :beer:
Laughing at all the funny stuff I thought was so 'cool' at the time to get ahead, as I too had websites with A1, keyword stuffed, and used white lettering. Was so proud that I finally got on DMOZ, ha ha ha.
Laughing at all the funny stuff I thought was so 'cool' at the time to get ahead, as I too had websites with A1, keyword stuffed, and used white lettering. Was so proud that I finally got on DMOZ, ha ha ha.
You have been thanked 666 times......you must be Illuminati :scared1:
- Apr 2, 2010
- 3,681
- 663
The great thing about being listed in DMOZ was when AOL used their listings; you got all that sweet AOL traffic, particularly the week after Christmas when all those people opened their brand new computers and did online searches for the first time ever.
My first foray into automation was in the early 2000s (did everything by hand before that) - had a site building script that could churn out hundreds of interlinked sites in a few hours - god, Yahoo loved those sites.
Thanks to Scritty for injecting some perspective into the panic. Just remember, in five years people will be moaning about the latest G algos, and many people will think *these* were the "golden days" of SEO
My first foray into automation was in the early 2000s (did everything by hand before that) - had a site building script that could churn out hundreds of interlinked sites in a few hours - god, Yahoo loved those sites.
Thanks to Scritty for injecting some perspective into the panic. Just remember, in five years people will be moaning about the latest G algos, and many people will think *these* were the "golden days" of SEO
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leobar
Regular Member
- Mar 9, 2013
- 267
- 133
well said mate, as long as search engines exist, there will be SEO also.
good content cant be judged from Google.
if i start a philosophy site and start writing all my life philosophies , how can Google judge it? content is personal opinions and since we have democracy no one can judge or reject personal opinions.
But how many people like it and refer it in their blogs makes my opinion popular and Google can judge only by that. what if i pay someone to refer me in their pages?
No one can know it and as long as no one knows it have authority.
Just focus on good content so people may refer to you, don't forget to make good quality link building , don't be afraid to put your hand in your pocket if needed to buy 1 quality backling instead of 10k crap backlinks, focus on public relationship so you get more connections and people are more available to link you in their blogs/sites.
Let google update every day you have nothing to fear.
I am not as old as you in SEO guys, actually i am a child comparing to you.
But i am ranking top 5 last 3 months in some very competitive keywords (penguin dropped me from #1 to #5 on 3 keywords but i am still waiting for dust to settle down)
its ridiculous how veterans of SEO get in panic from this. (or maybe they want to spread fear so people start buying services-not willing to insult any seller ofc.)
and dont for get: we are pirates and pirates are not afraid of penguins or pandas.
good content cant be judged from Google.
if i start a philosophy site and start writing all my life philosophies , how can Google judge it? content is personal opinions and since we have democracy no one can judge or reject personal opinions.
But how many people like it and refer it in their blogs makes my opinion popular and Google can judge only by that. what if i pay someone to refer me in their pages?
No one can know it and as long as no one knows it have authority.
Just focus on good content so people may refer to you, don't forget to make good quality link building , don't be afraid to put your hand in your pocket if needed to buy 1 quality backling instead of 10k crap backlinks, focus on public relationship so you get more connections and people are more available to link you in their blogs/sites.
Let google update every day you have nothing to fear.
I am not as old as you in SEO guys, actually i am a child comparing to you.
But i am ranking top 5 last 3 months in some very competitive keywords (penguin dropped me from #1 to #5 on 3 keywords but i am still waiting for dust to settle down)
its ridiculous how veterans of SEO get in panic from this. (or maybe they want to spread fear so people start buying services-not willing to insult any seller ofc.)
and dont for get: we are pirates and pirates are not afraid of penguins or pandas.
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Scritty
Elite Member
- May 1, 2010
- 3,019
- 4,707
Just remember, in five years people will be moaning about the latest G algos, and many people will think *these* were the "golden days" of SEO
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ That much I guarantee.
Nothing has changed dramatically - every update has been a tweak of certain indicators by a few percentage points from where we are sat as SEO's.
We all know which way Google is trying to move - and we are all aware that they are having some success but there never has been a "death of a method" update and maybe their never will be.
Remember - despite what Google's cuddly user policy says - they aren't in the business of giving users "the best experience" they are in the business of making money. There is a tipping point where more sophisticated methods of spam removal cost more than the extra revenue a cleaner index will make. You can be certain at that point they will stop. It's just business.
They'll leave losing money to make a better product to companies like SAAB. (who folded..)
Scritty
- Jul 8, 2010
- 3,994
- 823
OP i like your POST with reference and congrats on your IM anniversiy it's bit late
cloakndagger2
Regular Member
- Oct 30, 2012
- 296
- 93
Great post as usual Scritty what people underestimate is how little google can actually change the serps.There are no go areas for G simply because the results would be like a lottery.Nowadays you cannot expect the golden key to publically posted,you need to get off your arse and test stuff out(how do you think methods are discovered).Those who simply act on what is posted on forums are already behind the curve.It's not a case of not sharing it a case of commonsense,eventually someone needs cash and offers a service and it comes out into the open.Suprisingly certain methods work very well and are nor complicated and are openly here.
It's a game us against G,think about all their billions they have,we don't do bad.Alot of talk from G is to appease whitehatters who hang on every word matt cutts utters from his mouth.I have nothing against the guy he does his job,we do ours.It's all about money,first thing to remember is you're not taking money from your competitors you're taking it from google.They own the search engine and can do whatever the hell they want with it.
One piece od advice to newbies would be look at scritty's posts and take them seriously(well most of them lol),out of all the members here a few are worth paying attention to scritty is one of them.
It's a game us against G,think about all their billions they have,we don't do bad.Alot of talk from G is to appease whitehatters who hang on every word matt cutts utters from his mouth.I have nothing against the guy he does his job,we do ours.It's all about money,first thing to remember is you're not taking money from your competitors you're taking it from google.They own the search engine and can do whatever the hell they want with it.
One piece od advice to newbies would be look at scritty's posts and take them seriously(well most of them lol),out of all the members here a few are worth paying attention to scritty is one of them.
henrikas
Regular Member
- May 1, 2011
- 219
- 193
There always will be something we could optimize: be it videos, apps, etc.
Joking aside, I saw different results for my websites: few got hit, few went up in the serps.
In coming weeks I will analyse all these changes and implement new strategies (I already can see main patterns: link diversification, anchor text diversification and link quality).
A lot of guys are giving up, but I see this update as an opportunity to become much stronger in my field.
P.S. Happy anniversary!
Joking aside, I saw different results for my websites: few got hit, few went up in the serps.
In coming weeks I will analyse all these changes and implement new strategies (I already can see main patterns: link diversification, anchor text diversification and link quality).
A lot of guys are giving up, but I see this update as an opportunity to become much stronger in my field.
P.S. Happy anniversary!
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partymarty4870
Elite Member
- Jul 7, 2010
- 2,032
- 1,697
so me scritty and steelballs are the old farts of BHW! (I started late, in 99.)
Scritty
Elite Member
- May 1, 2010
- 3,019
- 4,707
Great point. A lot of newbies and shortcut takers WILL be quitting now. And the changes required for most sites to actually benefit from these changes to the Google algo are not that drastic. Ironically oner of them is often "more links...just better ones" on top of sometimes adding a little content is the site is thin and diversifying ...generally adding a few percent of SEO quality all around. THis will fix the vast majority of issues.
But the point you make here is very valid. For those who know how this works - andf have seen these changes year after year after year - and know how this all works. This is more of an OPPORTUNITY than a slap.
Wait for the dust to settle...then hit back HARD and by July/August your site could be better positioned than ever.
Scritty
- Feb 13, 2008
- 440
- 905
Not so after another 5 years...
- Feb 13, 2008
- 440
- 905
Google works more and more with pattern matching and recognition... and soon a software algo will be able to tell if a piece of content has depth in it or is all fluff or just spun crap of the same topic... just like they can detect bad grammar in a post just like the service PassGoSEo can... they will get there and are probably already quite advanced in their AI... so, it will evolve to that point. And, then once that happens backlinks have no real meaning.