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#1 With No Hands SEO Alone
- Thread starter LBrown
- Start date
If your tool gets rankings without me having to lift a finger of course I would pay 77 dollars for that. If it's bullshit then why would I pay anything, less if it penalizes my site (very likely). If you're so confident with your tool, prove it. If it works I have no problem paying. However you can't find out in 7 days, and I'm not going to drop any money on a tool that will most likely get people nailed (yes, I repeat, nailed) by Penguin. For example, one of the biggest reasons why people get penalized that a lot of people neglect is the quality of the actual comment they leave. Now, since you're submitting to thousands of sites, you will clearly need to use the same spun comment over and over again. It will most likely be nonsense and often detected as duplicate, poor quality or both. This vastly increases the chances of your site being penalized and there is NOTHING you can do about it, and it's not necessarily the fault of your software per se. It's just a reality of automated content submission. Another reason is skewed distribution of any footprint, one of the main ones in NHSEO is the limited amount of CMS targeted (obviously known to Google by now and hence, nailed) as well as the skewed distribution of nofollow links. Only a minority of links online are nofollow yet NHSEO links, much like SB links, are mostly nofollow. I see no benefit of that, only an increased likelihood of a penalty in the future. I do agree fully that AA lists are redundant. I'm not trying to grill you here or be excessively harsh, I am genuinely looking for a hands off solution as I move to other business ventures, but I don't want to pay for another tool that turned out to be a steaming pile of shite, e.g. AMR, Scrapeboard, etc.
- Sep 17, 2008
- 6,006
- 3,954
I don't know how you can say "if it penalizes my site (very likely)" when I have pointed you in the direction of irrefutable proof that NHSEO works. DId you even look at the post I referenced in my last reply? If you did I do not know how you can just come back at me with the same opinion, your opinion is incorrect and is nothing more than opinion. NHSEO targets 12 platforms and had its footprints updated in the last update (not that this has anything to do with the safety of the tool).
The over whelming majority of links online are in fact nofollow, nearly every website has a nofollow heavy backlink profile so I don't know where you are getting your figures from but they are wrong. Again how you can spout such things about NHSEO being damaging when I have just pointed you in the direction of irrefutable proof about the link quality (I'm not trying to hide a single thing here) and the results those links had on my site?
You are just posting nonsense arguments that are not based on fact, conversely what I posted is backed up by myself and others. You talk about Google obviously knows this so its nailed and its absolute rubbish, you are not speaking from an educated standpoint and I would prefer it if you stopped trying to damage the reputation of my tool as you do not know what you are talking about. Please look at the post I referenced in my last post before typing out some of the same tired mis-conceptions that are covered in that comprehensive post.
I'm not trying to damage its reputation, I told you if it works I will gladly pay for it. Your supposed proof is irrelevant to me, what really counts is my own experience with it. Does it rank sites today, October 2012, without penalization?
First of all, your claim that my points come from a "non-educated" standpoint are laughable in the sense that you do not appear to know how Google works. By now, your tool, being very popular, will have been purchased, downloaded and thoroughly backwards engineered by the web spam team at Google, and hence, yes, "nailed" as I originally put it. Showing just how "uneducated" I am, you also claim that the majority of links on the internet are nofollow, and hence, it is somehow a GOOD thing to have a shitload of crappy nofollow links pointing to your website. Although there is no exact number of course, approximately 95% of all links on the internet are D0-Follow, with the remaining 5% being nofollow. You seem to think that, just because the CMS NHSEO targets are predominantly nofollow, and that because it is relatively difficult to find links without the nofollow tag, most links on the internet must then be nofollow. This just shows that you're not really with it. I was in no way trying to damage the reputation of your tool, the results or lack thereof will speak for themselves, but you got on the defensive simply because I was (with very good reason) skeptical as to how a bunch of
1. nofollow
2. non contextual blog comments/image gallery links
3. surrounded by short, spun, nonsense comments
4. downloaded and backwards engineered by Google
...could be effective today as an SEO tool. If you are right, I would be MORE than happy to eat my words. For the third time in case you get defensive again, I'm not trying to damage the reputation of the tool. I am just skeptical based on the realities of the tool mentioned above. And can you not see how any source referred to by the owner and creator of NHSEO is just a little bit unreliable (at best)? That's to say, the ONLY "irrefutable proof", as you put it, that this software still works today, will be if it can rank my sites with "no hands" as it says on the tin. If you're nervous because you know, perhaps, that your software has been nailed by Google (that's understandable, a lot of people have been affected by the updates so you're not alone) yet you still want to claim past "proof" to indicate future results, so that you can still get some sales, I guess I understand, but I would still like to know first hand. I was thinking of listing the CMS you've got for NHSEO, getting my own (better) footprints for them and harvesting URLs quick fast using hrefer on 1000 threads, then putting those URLs into it, but it wouldn't really be 'no hands' then would it? ;-)
First of all, your claim that my points come from a "non-educated" standpoint are laughable in the sense that you do not appear to know how Google works. By now, your tool, being very popular, will have been purchased, downloaded and thoroughly backwards engineered by the web spam team at Google, and hence, yes, "nailed" as I originally put it. Showing just how "uneducated" I am, you also claim that the majority of links on the internet are nofollow, and hence, it is somehow a GOOD thing to have a shitload of crappy nofollow links pointing to your website. Although there is no exact number of course, approximately 95% of all links on the internet are D0-Follow, with the remaining 5% being nofollow. You seem to think that, just because the CMS NHSEO targets are predominantly nofollow, and that because it is relatively difficult to find links without the nofollow tag, most links on the internet must then be nofollow. This just shows that you're not really with it. I was in no way trying to damage the reputation of your tool, the results or lack thereof will speak for themselves, but you got on the defensive simply because I was (with very good reason) skeptical as to how a bunch of
1. nofollow
2. non contextual blog comments/image gallery links
3. surrounded by short, spun, nonsense comments
4. downloaded and backwards engineered by Google
...could be effective today as an SEO tool. If you are right, I would be MORE than happy to eat my words. For the third time in case you get defensive again, I'm not trying to damage the reputation of the tool. I am just skeptical based on the realities of the tool mentioned above. And can you not see how any source referred to by the owner and creator of NHSEO is just a little bit unreliable (at best)? That's to say, the ONLY "irrefutable proof", as you put it, that this software still works today, will be if it can rank my sites with "no hands" as it says on the tin. If you're nervous because you know, perhaps, that your software has been nailed by Google (that's understandable, a lot of people have been affected by the updates so you're not alone) yet you still want to claim past "proof" to indicate future results, so that you can still get some sales, I guess I understand, but I would still like to know first hand. I was thinking of listing the CMS you've got for NHSEO, getting my own (better) footprints for them and harvesting URLs quick fast using hrefer on 1000 threads, then putting those URLs into it, but it wouldn't really be 'no hands' then would it? ;-)
- Sep 17, 2008
- 6,006
- 3,954
I say non-educated in the sense you have not tried NHSEO, as you have stated yourself! I am not the only one posting that NHSEO is getting PR7 links, nor am I the only person posting positive results after using NHSEO, how do you not understand this when you are posting in a thread that the thread starter got #1 in google with NHSEO.
The screenshots I posted are not doctored and I will invite ANY mod to come and check them, I will show my VPS running and anything to do with that post (including link stats etc). Also the screenshots and link stats I posted were this October, Oct 2012 why are you asking if it still works now when I have shown you it is. Right now I am fed up of having to make rebuttals to your innane arguments as you are just posting opinion with nothing to back it up whereas I have answered all of these questions before.
Your comment about Google downloading it and reverse engineering therefore my tool is "nailed" is, really trying to hold back insults here, rooted in fantasy. By this twisted logic every SEO tool on the internet is now useless as Google have it, this is so wrong I don't even know where to begin. You have stated yourself that you use SB and you have xrumer in your title so you are well aware that having a tool available to the public does not dimish what it is capable of and with comments like this I can only assume that you are trolling me.
Your list of points:
1) Yes, what is your point? Nofollow links have been shown to be very effective many times over by many people and they are still very effective today. I have proved this, others have proved this, you are just beating a dead horse at this point.
2) If you enter in niche relevant keywords you will get contextual links (another uneducated comment as you have not used it)
3) Comments dont have to be short and they certainly do not need to be non-sense. The comments I post are far from nonsense and they are niche relevant so they add to the relevancy of my links
4) Utter bullshit
Do not question what I know because I have been putting people like you right for about 18months now and that is because I have been using and improving the tool for this long. If you were to start posting this crap in my BST the posts would be removed quickly because they are not rooted in fact, it is all opinion and you have nothing to backup what you are saying.
I am not saying this to try and convince you to purchase or anything of the sort, at this point I would much rather you stay away from it, I am doing this because what you are posting is ill-informed at best and total lies at worst. You are trying to damage the reputation of my tool using mis-conceptions, half truths and total bunkem, even when I have posted proof that NHSEO is as effective today as it ever has been you still question it.
I am not nervous because Google has done anything. What part of the screenshots and link stats from that post are you not understanding? If you are trying to say that PR4, PR5, PR6, PR7 links in their hundreds do not help rankings then I do not know what to tell you. If you cannot understand screen shots from the past weeks/ couple months then I don't know what to tell you.
I am not nervous because any search engine has done any updates, I have seen the crap posted by people like you after every update and guess what, it works as well today as any other time. I am rushed now so I may have missed some of your "points", rest assured I will comment on anything I have missed when I get back.
I barely use SB anymore, for anything other than indexing links, if at all; for all intents and purposes it has now been nailed completely. I use a *heavily* customized Xrumer setup, the key internal files have all been rewritten and replaced - if you were to use Xrumer out of the box to just post profiles, forum posts and guestbooks, you would indeed be 'nailed' because backwards engineer popular SEO tools and methods is *exactly* what they do. They have huge resources dedicated to fighting webspam and to think that after 18 months as you say they have not checked this tool out yet with its popularity, is a fantasy. Believe me, they have. You state that by this logic, every SEO tool out Google already has and has made useless, yes, that is exactly what has happened: SB, Xrumer, AMR, in their default state they are all useless and often harmful as posters. The only way you can get results is by heavily modifying Xrumer, or using the Learning mode of SB.
Your software got a PR7 link? It got 2 PR7 links? First of all PR is an increasingly redundant measure of the power of a backlink, and in addition, since the vast majority of links created by NHSEO are nofollow, PR would not be passed, assuming PR mattered that much anymore anyway.
Leading on to this, although this will of course be the subject of debate forever, nofollow links have very little, if any, SEO benefit. Believe me, I have created all sorts of nofollow links in their thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, on various sites, for various keywords, and the results have always been similar. I then compare to the results of similar links on D0-Follow sites, obviously in much smaller amounts, and even at a factor of 100 smaller in terms of quantity, D0-Follow links actually have power to increase a site's rankings while nofollow links are akin to flogging a dead horse, to use your wording.
Where do my statements have no basis in fact? That this tool creates mainly nofollow links? That nofollow links are next to worthless? That it is incorrect to say that NHSEO will make your link profile "natural" looking, given that 95% of links online are actually D0-Follow? That common SEO tools have not been purchased and reverse engineered by Google and hence rendered next to useless in their default state e.g. SB, AMR, Xrumer etc.? These are all patent facts and no, I am not "trolling" your product. I merely asked valid questions about your software and you got defensive because you are emotionally attached to it and desperate to protect its reputation and your sales. I understand that, but this is not what this is about. I said if it works I will pay for it gladly and eat my words, but since I doubt it very much I asked for a 2 month trial for me to see the effects and tell people what happened. Despite your claims of X Y Z awesome results, you seem to be afraid to let this happen probably for fear of it not working and the tool being found out as useless.
I take issue with your questioning my own reputation on this forum as a "troll", in addition to your questioning my knowledge of facts, i.e. branding me a "liar" simply because you do not like valid points raised about your automatic nofollow link building software. And please if you will do not group me with other people as if you have spoken to me before; you have not discussed your software with me before so don't act as if you have. Do it here and give a good account of it with proper facts, not self-interested hogwash as you are thus far projecting, and I will respect it. I always like a good discussion about link spam as I am, you may be surprised, heavily pro-SEO tools and pro-automation. You interpreted my skepticism as mindless attacks on your software which I repeatedly stated it was not, yet you continued with personal attacks.
The following statements of yours can be construed as errors at best, total lies in order to preserve waning sales of your software post-Penguin, at worst:
1. You were woefully incorrect about the distribution of nofollow
0-Follow links on the internet, claiming that nofollow links are in the majority. Anyone with the most basic knowledge of SEO would know that around 95% of links on the internet are in fact D0-Follow. Therefore your informing potential buyers that NHSEO will help to make their backlink profile appear more "natural" = outright lie at worst, lack of basic SEO knowledge at best
2. You boast about PR of links; this matters less and less these days as this has been a heavily abused metric for a long time, and Google is well aware of it and has acted accordingly. Also you do not note that since NHSEO will be creating mostly nofollow links, the PR of the page does not matter as it is not passed, regardless, even if it did matter that much. So yes, that is precisely what I am saying: these days, PR links alone in their hundreds, do not matter anywhere near as much as they used to (there are other metrics which are now being employed post Penguin, to determine the authority of a site, many of which we do not yet know), but they would undoubtedly still have some power. However, nofollow PR links would have hardly any effect, if any at all.
3. You do not admit the fact that Google DOES purchase and backwards engineer all major SEO tools as part of their efforts to control link spam. AMR, SB and Xrumer are big names that were once effective but now in their default state are next to useless. This is no coincidence. NHSEO has, without doubt, been seen and analyzed by Google at the very least, yet you continue to vehemently deny this due to your own self-interest.
4. It is impossible, unless you perform manual spins, to not come up with auto-spun comments which are not nonsense (read: do not make sense grammatically) in many instances of the spin. Now, assuming you are going to be submitting to tens of thousands, or even hundreds of thousands of sites, performing a manual spin of a sufficiently large text file to accommodate such a large amount of spins (say 10k, on the low end) will be impossible. Assume 50 words per comment, that's 500,000 words to spin, but lets say we have a 10:1 comment:unique comment ratio, we will still be required to spin 50,000 words manually, in order for it to make sense and be seen as reasonably unique by search engines. Auto spins using TBS are not good enough as they are laden with mistakes and the spin percentage is too low. So what do you tell your customers about spinning? That's after we find out how we are going to generate such niche-relevant unique content. A low quality link has various characteristics, two of which are a lack of uniqueness in surrounding content and a lack of grammatical correctness in surrounding content. As it stands, NHSEO much like SB has, admittedly through no necessary fault of its own, no viable solution to this problem. But you are responsible for this because you are the developer enabling people to create such low quality links which could potentially harm their sites.
Where I will concede is that I was not aware it could create contextual links, that's at least one advantage, assuming however that the text which surrounds the link is of good quality (see point immediately above).
With regard to your constant reference to your precious screenshots, now, once again, you must forgive me if I discount you as a credible source since you are the developer. And believe it or not, I repeat, I am actually a supporter of automated SEO software that works; it is MUCH better than hiring people out to do it. I am not a troll so get that conspiracy theory out of your head; I am someone who is very interested in and very critical of (in a good way, I like to think) SEO software and was curious about one that I have not yet tried, although I am very skeptical.
I said this before, if you are so confident about the brilliance of this tool then cut it with the screenshots. I want to get real first hand results on my own sites and only then would I believe you and eat my words.
Your software got a PR7 link? It got 2 PR7 links? First of all PR is an increasingly redundant measure of the power of a backlink, and in addition, since the vast majority of links created by NHSEO are nofollow, PR would not be passed, assuming PR mattered that much anymore anyway.
Leading on to this, although this will of course be the subject of debate forever, nofollow links have very little, if any, SEO benefit. Believe me, I have created all sorts of nofollow links in their thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, on various sites, for various keywords, and the results have always been similar. I then compare to the results of similar links on D0-Follow sites, obviously in much smaller amounts, and even at a factor of 100 smaller in terms of quantity, D0-Follow links actually have power to increase a site's rankings while nofollow links are akin to flogging a dead horse, to use your wording.
Where do my statements have no basis in fact? That this tool creates mainly nofollow links? That nofollow links are next to worthless? That it is incorrect to say that NHSEO will make your link profile "natural" looking, given that 95% of links online are actually D0-Follow? That common SEO tools have not been purchased and reverse engineered by Google and hence rendered next to useless in their default state e.g. SB, AMR, Xrumer etc.? These are all patent facts and no, I am not "trolling" your product. I merely asked valid questions about your software and you got defensive because you are emotionally attached to it and desperate to protect its reputation and your sales. I understand that, but this is not what this is about. I said if it works I will pay for it gladly and eat my words, but since I doubt it very much I asked for a 2 month trial for me to see the effects and tell people what happened. Despite your claims of X Y Z awesome results, you seem to be afraid to let this happen probably for fear of it not working and the tool being found out as useless.
I take issue with your questioning my own reputation on this forum as a "troll", in addition to your questioning my knowledge of facts, i.e. branding me a "liar" simply because you do not like valid points raised about your automatic nofollow link building software. And please if you will do not group me with other people as if you have spoken to me before; you have not discussed your software with me before so don't act as if you have. Do it here and give a good account of it with proper facts, not self-interested hogwash as you are thus far projecting, and I will respect it. I always like a good discussion about link spam as I am, you may be surprised, heavily pro-SEO tools and pro-automation. You interpreted my skepticism as mindless attacks on your software which I repeatedly stated it was not, yet you continued with personal attacks.
The following statements of yours can be construed as errors at best, total lies in order to preserve waning sales of your software post-Penguin, at worst:
1. You were woefully incorrect about the distribution of nofollow
0-Follow links on the internet, claiming that nofollow links are in the majority. Anyone with the most basic knowledge of SEO would know that around 95% of links on the internet are in fact D0-Follow. Therefore your informing potential buyers that NHSEO will help to make their backlink profile appear more "natural" = outright lie at worst, lack of basic SEO knowledge at best2. You boast about PR of links; this matters less and less these days as this has been a heavily abused metric for a long time, and Google is well aware of it and has acted accordingly. Also you do not note that since NHSEO will be creating mostly nofollow links, the PR of the page does not matter as it is not passed, regardless, even if it did matter that much. So yes, that is precisely what I am saying: these days, PR links alone in their hundreds, do not matter anywhere near as much as they used to (there are other metrics which are now being employed post Penguin, to determine the authority of a site, many of which we do not yet know), but they would undoubtedly still have some power. However, nofollow PR links would have hardly any effect, if any at all.
3. You do not admit the fact that Google DOES purchase and backwards engineer all major SEO tools as part of their efforts to control link spam. AMR, SB and Xrumer are big names that were once effective but now in their default state are next to useless. This is no coincidence. NHSEO has, without doubt, been seen and analyzed by Google at the very least, yet you continue to vehemently deny this due to your own self-interest.
4. It is impossible, unless you perform manual spins, to not come up with auto-spun comments which are not nonsense (read: do not make sense grammatically) in many instances of the spin. Now, assuming you are going to be submitting to tens of thousands, or even hundreds of thousands of sites, performing a manual spin of a sufficiently large text file to accommodate such a large amount of spins (say 10k, on the low end) will be impossible. Assume 50 words per comment, that's 500,000 words to spin, but lets say we have a 10:1 comment:unique comment ratio, we will still be required to spin 50,000 words manually, in order for it to make sense and be seen as reasonably unique by search engines. Auto spins using TBS are not good enough as they are laden with mistakes and the spin percentage is too low. So what do you tell your customers about spinning? That's after we find out how we are going to generate such niche-relevant unique content. A low quality link has various characteristics, two of which are a lack of uniqueness in surrounding content and a lack of grammatical correctness in surrounding content. As it stands, NHSEO much like SB has, admittedly through no necessary fault of its own, no viable solution to this problem. But you are responsible for this because you are the developer enabling people to create such low quality links which could potentially harm their sites.
Where I will concede is that I was not aware it could create contextual links, that's at least one advantage, assuming however that the text which surrounds the link is of good quality (see point immediately above).
With regard to your constant reference to your precious screenshots, now, once again, you must forgive me if I discount you as a credible source since you are the developer. And believe it or not, I repeat, I am actually a supporter of automated SEO software that works; it is MUCH better than hiring people out to do it. I am not a troll so get that conspiracy theory out of your head; I am someone who is very interested in and very critical of (in a good way, I like to think) SEO software and was curious about one that I have not yet tried, although I am very skeptical.
I said this before, if you are so confident about the brilliance of this tool then cut it with the screenshots. I want to get real first hand results on my own sites and only then would I believe you and eat my words.
- Sep 17, 2008
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- 3,954
jb2008 I am not even reading your points anymore, there is no point. Obviously I am abiased source which is exactly why I have stated on numberous occasions I will allow any mod to get on TeamViewer and I will show them everything. I have nothing to hide.
I have no intention of pointing out yet again where you are wrong as it is just wasting my and your time, I have showed that NHSEO gets results and many others have done the same. I am not trying to say NHSEO doesn't get predominantly nofollow links or that Google hasn't bought it or anything of the sort. What I am saying is that NHSEO gets results and you cannot argue that.
I am not going to argue on and on when I have showed my proof when you have done nothing but spout your opinion.
I have no intention of pointing out yet again where you are wrong as it is just wasting my and your time, I have showed that NHSEO gets results and many others have done the same. I am not trying to say NHSEO doesn't get predominantly nofollow links or that Google hasn't bought it or anything of the sort. What I am saying is that NHSEO gets results and you cannot argue that.
I am not going to argue on and on when I have showed my proof when you have done nothing but spout your opinion.
zen19
Elite Member
- Mar 31, 2009
- 1,666
- 4,238
TBH jb2008 - your posts are reading like this:
"If what I suspect to be true, is indeed true, then everything I say is fact and must be believed."
I see several examples of you using 'without a doubt' where you offer no evidence yourself, god forbid anyone else does this, as you call them out. Jimbo has offered screenshots and teamview to verify his claims, instead you seem to demand that due to your extensive status (wtf) you should get a copy yourself to check out if his claims are true.
Your long winded posts, while they may have something useful buried in them, read to me like review begging, surrounded by opinions being passed off as facts, presented by an acknowledged fanboy.
"If what I suspect to be true, is indeed true, then everything I say is fact and must be believed."
I see several examples of you using 'without a doubt' where you offer no evidence yourself, god forbid anyone else does this, as you call them out. Jimbo has offered screenshots and teamview to verify his claims, instead you seem to demand that due to your extensive status (wtf) you should get a copy yourself to check out if his claims are true.
Your long winded posts, while they may have something useful buried in them, read to me like review begging, surrounded by opinions being passed off as facts, presented by an acknowledged fanboy.
Hi there zen,
To say that I am 'review begging' is very unfair as I have never done this at any point on BHW nor would I ever seek to do so. I just invited jimbob to prove it by giving me first hand experience of his claims, but if he doesn't want to or is not confident enough to do so, then I can't force him at all.
We all know that in IM testimonials, screenshots, basically any sort of 'proof' and the like should be taken with a grain of salt. It's not personal against jimbob it's just the way things are, I would like to see it first hand, that is all. I think that is a fair request. He is extremely confident when discussing his screenshots but when I asked to experience it first hand he refuses, so that doesn't fill me with confidence, in addition to the nature of the software itself and the time we are currently in.
As for your inferring that I believe I have superior 'status' and therefore should be entitled to free stuff just because of that, I said many times if the software works I will gladly pay for it. If I want to have superior 'status' and grow my e-dick I would not be on BHW at least trying to make constructive posts I would be on WF making 15,000 useless posts while making $0 a day.
None of my "opinions" have been addressed despite being very valid, especially if you have been doing SEO for a while, you will know what I'm talking about. For example, no, none of us can go to Google HQ and watch them take apart all our favorite SEO tools, so strictly speaking, without seeing it, it is not a fact, despite being around a 99% certainty. I asked questions of the software and these were perceived as attacks on it, despite the fact that I actually support SEO software and that, if it does get results, then jimbob has done a good thing by helping people to do SEO cheaply on their own sites. If you were offended jimbob I do honestly apologise and can assure you this was never my intention. I can also assure you that I am not a raging dickhead I just get a bit passionate when it comes to SEO and tools. (You should see me bullshit for hours about Xrumer.) I hope this resolves things and that the regular significantly less heated discussion about NHSEO can continue.
To say that I am 'review begging' is very unfair as I have never done this at any point on BHW nor would I ever seek to do so. I just invited jimbob to prove it by giving me first hand experience of his claims, but if he doesn't want to or is not confident enough to do so, then I can't force him at all.
We all know that in IM testimonials, screenshots, basically any sort of 'proof' and the like should be taken with a grain of salt. It's not personal against jimbob it's just the way things are, I would like to see it first hand, that is all. I think that is a fair request. He is extremely confident when discussing his screenshots but when I asked to experience it first hand he refuses, so that doesn't fill me with confidence, in addition to the nature of the software itself and the time we are currently in.
As for your inferring that I believe I have superior 'status' and therefore should be entitled to free stuff just because of that, I said many times if the software works I will gladly pay for it. If I want to have superior 'status' and grow my e-dick I would not be on BHW at least trying to make constructive posts I would be on WF making 15,000 useless posts while making $0 a day.
None of my "opinions" have been addressed despite being very valid, especially if you have been doing SEO for a while, you will know what I'm talking about. For example, no, none of us can go to Google HQ and watch them take apart all our favorite SEO tools, so strictly speaking, without seeing it, it is not a fact, despite being around a 99% certainty. I asked questions of the software and these were perceived as attacks on it, despite the fact that I actually support SEO software and that, if it does get results, then jimbob has done a good thing by helping people to do SEO cheaply on their own sites. If you were offended jimbob I do honestly apologise and can assure you this was never my intention. I can also assure you that I am not a raging dickhead I just get a bit passionate when it comes to SEO and tools. (You should see me bullshit for hours about Xrumer.) I hope this resolves things and that the regular significantly less heated discussion about NHSEO can continue.
Dr. Hulu Zu Fred
Newbie
- Oct 9, 2012
- 34
- 7
I can understand that someone is really fed up by all these false marketing promises and false proofs. He simply wanted to check this one to the max, which is a nice try
- Sep 17, 2008
- 6,006
- 3,954
EDIT: I have no intention of furthering this conversation as I don't feel it is going anywhere. There is a 7 day trial for anyone to use and there is also a 7 day money back guarantee for anyone that feels as though the tool does not meet their expectations.
Last edited:
kideze
Elite Member
- Jun 23, 2009
- 1,719
- 333
I barely use SB anymore, for anything other than indexing links, if at all; for all intents and purposes it has now been nailed completely. I use a *heavily* customized Xrumer setup, the key internal files have all been rewritten and replaced - if you were to use Xrumer out of the box to just post profiles, forum posts and guestbooks, you would indeed be 'nailed' because backwards engineer popular SEO tools and methods is *exactly* what they do. They have huge resources dedicated to fighting webspam and to think that after 18 months as you say they have not checked this tool out yet with its popularity, is a fantasy. Believe me, they have. You state that by this logic, every SEO tool out Google already has and has made useless, yes, that is exactly what has happened: SB, Xrumer, AMR, in their default state they are all useless and often harmful as posters. The only way you can get results is by heavily modifying Xrumer, or using the Learning mode of SB.
Your software got a PR7 link? It got 2 PR7 links? First of all PR is an increasingly redundant measure of the power of a backlink, and in addition, since the vast majority of links created by NHSEO are nofollow, PR would not be passed, assuming PR mattered that much anymore anyway.
Leading on to this, although this will of course be the subject of debate forever, nofollow links have very little, if any, SEO benefit. Believe me, I have created all sorts of nofollow links in their thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, on various sites, for various keywords, and the results have always been similar. I then compare to the results of similar links on D0-Follow sites, obviously in much smaller amounts, and even at a factor of 100 smaller in terms of quantity, D0-Follow links actually have power to increase a site's rankings while nofollow links are akin to flogging a dead horse, to use your wording.
Where do my statements have no basis in fact? That this tool creates mainly nofollow links? That nofollow links are next to worthless? That it is incorrect to say that NHSEO will make your link profile "natural" looking, given that 95% of links online are actually D0-Follow? That common SEO tools have not been purchased and reverse engineered by Google and hence rendered next to useless in their default state e.g. SB, AMR, Xrumer etc.? These are all patent facts and no, I am not "trolling" your product. I merely asked valid questions about your software and you got defensive because you are emotionally attached to it and desperate to protect its reputation and your sales. I understand that, but this is not what this is about. I said if it works I will pay for it gladly and eat my words, but since I doubt it very much I asked for a 2 month trial for me to see the effects and tell people what happened. Despite your claims of X Y Z awesome results, you seem to be afraid to let this happen probably for fear of it not working and the tool being found out as useless.
I take issue with your questioning my own reputation on this forum as a "troll", in addition to your questioning my knowledge of facts, i.e. branding me a "liar" simply because you do not like valid points raised about your automatic nofollow link building software. And please if you will do not group me with other people as if you have spoken to me before; you have not discussed your software with me before so don't act as if you have. Do it here and give a good account of it with proper facts, not self-interested hogwash as you are thus far projecting, and I will respect it. I always like a good discussion about link spam as I am, you may be surprised, heavily pro-SEO tools and pro-automation. You interpreted my skepticism as mindless attacks on your software which I repeatedly stated it was not, yet you continued with personal attacks.
The following statements of yours can be construed as errors at best, total lies in order to preserve waning sales of your software post-Penguin, at worst:
1. You were woefully incorrect about the distribution of nofollow
2. You boast about PR of links; this matters less and less these days as this has been a heavily abused metric for a long time, and Google is well aware of it and has acted accordingly. Also you do not note that since NHSEO will be creating mostly nofollow links, the PR of the page does not matter as it is not passed, regardless, even if it did matter that much. So yes, that is precisely what I am saying: these days, PR links alone in their hundreds, do not matter anywhere near as much as they used to (there are other metrics which are now being employed post Penguin, to determine the authority of a site, many of which we do not yet know), but they would undoubtedly still have some power. However, nofollow PR links would have hardly any effect, if any at all.
3. You do not admit the fact that Google DOES purchase and backwards engineer all major SEO tools as part of their efforts to control link spam. AMR, SB and Xrumer are big names that were once effective but now in their default state are next to useless. This is no coincidence. NHSEO has, without doubt, been seen and analyzed by Google at the very least, yet you continue to vehemently deny this due to your own self-interest.
4. It is impossible, unless you perform manual spins, to not come up with auto-spun comments which are not nonsense (read: do not make sense grammatically) in many instances of the spin. Now, assuming you are going to be submitting to tens of thousands, or even hundreds of thousands of sites, performing a manual spin of a sufficiently large text file to accommodate such a large amount of spins (say 10k, on the low end) will be impossible. Assume 50 words per comment, that's 500,000 words to spin, but lets say we have a 10:1 comment:unique comment ratio, we will still be required to spin 50,000 words manually, in order for it to make sense and be seen as reasonably unique by search engines. Auto spins using TBS are not good enough as they are laden with mistakes and the spin percentage is too low. So what do you tell your customers about spinning? That's after we find out how we are going to generate such niche-relevant unique content. A low quality link has various characteristics, two of which are a lack of uniqueness in surrounding content and a lack of grammatical correctness in surrounding content. As it stands, NHSEO much like SB has, admittedly through no necessary fault of its own, no viable solution to this problem. But you are responsible for this because you are the developer enabling people to create such low quality links which could potentially harm their sites.
Where I will concede is that I was not aware it could create contextual links, that's at least one advantage, assuming however that the text which surrounds the link is of good quality (see point immediately above).
With regard to your constant reference to your precious screenshots, now, once again, you must forgive me if I discount you as a credible source since you are the developer. And believe it or not, I repeat, I am actually a supporter of automated SEO software that works; it is MUCH better than hiring people out to do it. I am not a troll so get that conspiracy theory out of your head; I am someone who is very interested in and very critical of (in a good way, I like to think) SEO software and was curious about one that I have not yet tried, although I am very skeptical.
I said this before, if you are so confident about the brilliance of this tool then cut it with the screenshots. I want to get real first hand results on my own sites and only then would I believe you and eat my words.
Great breakdown :clap2:
I'm trying it right now...
I have an EMD that I don't use anymore...it should have tens of backlinks active but it's nowhere to be found in G!
The EMD is composed by 3 words with a dash between the 2nd and the 3rd (xxxxxyyyyyy-zzzzz.com).
Started an NHSEO campaign yesterday.
Settings:
Set it up to post only in PR 1+ and max 20 OBL.
Disabled Whois.
Enabled lindexed submission.
Right Now:
Confirmed Links: 23
Comments posted: 6,376
Trackbacks Posted: 3,375
Image Comments Posted: 224
Comments Attempted: 58,223
Trackbacks Attempted: 25,914
Image Comments Attempted: 29,215
Ranking:
1st kw (EM): from nowhere to #439
2nd kw (Partial EM): from nowhere to #478
I have an EMD that I don't use anymore...it should have tens of backlinks active but it's nowhere to be found in G!
The EMD is composed by 3 words with a dash between the 2nd and the 3rd (xxxxxyyyyyy-zzzzz.com).
Started an NHSEO campaign yesterday.
Settings:
Set it up to post only in PR 1+ and max 20 OBL.
Disabled Whois.
Enabled lindexed submission.
Right Now:
Confirmed Links: 23
Comments posted: 6,376
Trackbacks Posted: 3,375
Image Comments Posted: 224
Comments Attempted: 58,223
Trackbacks Attempted: 25,914
Image Comments Attempted: 29,215
Ranking:
1st kw (EM): from nowhere to #439
2nd kw (Partial EM): from nowhere to #478
Qokaine
BANNED
- Mar 8, 2009
- 416
- 164
So this has slapped 1 of my PR3 domains and 1 of the keywords went from #10 to #103
i'll wait it out to see if it makes its appearance as a higher rank or if its just dancing at the moment.
edit: i changed the search keywords to be even more niche relevant and added the keyword to anchor tag spintax so it can hit that keyword that went down, so it wasn't even posting keywords for the keyword that got hit but similar keywords.
edit2 : approved some of the comments it made on my own blogs
i'll wait it out to see if it makes its appearance as a higher rank or if its just dancing at the moment.
edit: i changed the search keywords to be even more niche relevant and added the keyword to anchor tag spintax so it can hit that keyword that went down, so it wasn't even posting keywords for the keyword that got hit but similar keywords.
edit2 : approved some of the comments it made on my own blogs
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- Sep 17, 2008
- 6,006
- 3,954
Hey guys, thanks for posting your experiences so far. I would just like to point out a few things that appear to be quite important these days:
1) Anchor text variation - it is very important to have lots of anchor text variation and probably best to mix in non-keyword specific keywords such as website, click here, read more etc to add to the diversity and prevent the likelihood of any potential problems down the line
2) If the websites being promoted have little to no links there are controls for limiting the number of links created and the quality of these links via the PR/OBL limits.
3) If using the PR limit you must be using proxies for searching as otherwise your IP will get temporarily limited from requesting PR
4) Promote your linking pages - promoting the pages that link to your money site will spread the number of links created across all profiles and help to improve the quality of your existing linking pages. You can add batches of linking pages using the "Add Multiple pages to a single profile" controls in the "Add Profile" tab.
5) If you are promoting a website rather than a single page make sure that all content pages that you want to promote are entered in and even tailor the anchor texts to the individual pages if they differ even slightly from the homepage. Website profiles are automatically crawled for pages and the anchor texts can be set via the Profile Handler. Advice in (1) is as important here as for the profile as a whole
6) Custom comments - Custom comments are about the most important aspect after anchor texts to get right. The included comments file is fine for using on tier pages but if you are promoting money sites I would strongly advise to enter in hand written comments and spin them manually or using something like The Best Spinner or the built in Spinner Chief functionality if you have access to this software.
7) Add more than just the one profile - with private proxies my VPS gets around 1k new links per day across my profiles which is probably a bit high for new or previously un-SEOd websites so it is probably a good idea to either use the built in max links per day limit (in the Profile Handler) or to simply run more profiles so total number of links are spread across all profiles.
I am sorry if the above seems a bit elementary for some people but as the results are very dependant on how the tool is setup I thought it would be pertinent to give some best practices that will help to improve the end results.
If anyone has any further questions on how to improve their setup I am more than happy to help out either publically or via PM/email (in the case that it may involve information you do not want public).
Qokaine
BANNED
- Mar 8, 2009
- 416
- 164
It just got slapped for another keyword from 10 to 60. One of the pages took spot #13 for that keyword, but this page had no seo done to it. Just quality content.
Also these keywords could be dancing, this is all happening just from today, so it might make its way back up, i don't know we'll see.
Also these keywords could be dancing, this is all happening just from today, so it might make its way back up, i don't know we'll see.
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- Sep 17, 2008
- 6,006
- 3,954
I have responded to your PM, hopefully we can get a TV session setup soon.
Also as Qotaine has stated himself these results are from just a day of running on a site so large fluctuations are to be expected as part of the google dance, no real results will be known for the next few days at least. Hopefully a TV session will be possible before this so I can ensure that most or all of the points mentioned above are in place for best effect.
ok.. so.. I've tried it only for 2 days and half 'cause I had problem with my VPS.
It ended up with 26 confirmed links, 9,537 comment posted, 5,476 TB posted, 472 Image commented.
- I used Private Proxies
- I used PR1+, 20 Max OBL
- Disabled WhoIs
- Enabled Lindexed Submission
- Using HomePage and InnerPage
- Added few bad words (porn related)
- I used default comments (my test was like "how it work out of box")?
- I used mixed anchor text with non related ones (click here, read more ecc)
Results come really fast, but I doubt this site will survive G update!
Attached images are about the rankings and how they go up!
Traffic Travis tell this:
EMD:
Realtively Easy
PageRank AVG 4
Backlinks Page AVG 15.728
Backlinks Site AVG 25.250
Serps: 2.940.000
ACG PPC: 2,77 €
Partial MD:
Very Difficult
PageRank AVG 4
Backlinks Page AVG 45.644
Backlinks Site AVG 15.599.931
Serps: 2.560.000
AVG PPC: 2,57 €
21 Oct 2012 both are nowhere to be found;
22 Oct:
1st kw (EM): #439;
2nd kw (Partal MD): #478;
28 Oct:
1st kw (EM): #156;
2nd kw (Partal MD): #135;
It ended up with 26 confirmed links, 9,537 comment posted, 5,476 TB posted, 472 Image commented.
- I used Private Proxies
- I used PR1+, 20 Max OBL
- Disabled WhoIs
- Enabled Lindexed Submission
- Using HomePage and InnerPage
- Added few bad words (porn related)
- I used default comments (my test was like "how it work out of box")?
- I used mixed anchor text with non related ones (click here, read more ecc)
Results come really fast, but I doubt this site will survive G update!
Attached images are about the rankings and how they go up!
Traffic Travis tell this:
EMD:
Realtively Easy
PageRank AVG 4
Backlinks Page AVG 15.728
Backlinks Site AVG 25.250
Serps: 2.940.000
ACG PPC: 2,77 €
Partial MD:
Very Difficult
PageRank AVG 4
Backlinks Page AVG 45.644
Backlinks Site AVG 15.599.931
Serps: 2.560.000
AVG PPC: 2,57 €
21 Oct 2012 both are nowhere to be found;
22 Oct:
1st kw (EM): #439;
2nd kw (Partal MD): #478;
28 Oct:
1st kw (EM): #156;
2nd kw (Partal MD): #135;
Last edited: