GOOGLE blacklists Natural News...Part 2

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Ooh, looks like no one wants to say anything unless they're fighting about irrelevant stuff and conspiracy theories.

Someone made the point in the last thread that this is a perfect example of why you shouldn't solely rely on SEO/G for your website. I agree. And yet this keeps happening.

It seems like every year a super huge website goes down but people are still obsessed with dominating G. I guess they think it won't happen to them.

Someone else made another point in the last thread: G is not legally obligated to list your website in their search engine. So joke's on you suckers. They can run their company however they want.

Idk why people don't understand this. They don't owe you squat.
 
I don't know what they did, but watching these sort of disasters is the reason I discourage people from trying to find ways to game Google. Yeah there are other search engines, and yeah they can do whatever they want, but for so many people Google is the internet. I don't necessary like the implications but you've gotta work with the world as it is in business.

Better to play it safe if you can't deal with the punishment they can dole out at will.
 
topcalibercontent said:
I don't know what they did, but watching these sort of disasters is the reason I discourage people from trying to find ways to game Google. Yeah there are other search engines, and yeah they can do whatever they want, but for so many people Google is the internet. I don't necessary like the implications but you've gotta work with the world as it is in business.

Better to play it safe if you can't deal with the punishment they can dole out at will.
Click to expand...

You make a good point. Too many people - including me - use Google for everything. They've actually got us where we don't want to use any other products or search engines. Honestly, I tried using Bing for a month just to break myself out of the habit of Googling everything. I didn't last 48 hours. I hated it. I don't think it was necessarily inferior. I'm just used to using Google and I don't think I'm ready to change that yet.

That being said, I'm not foolish enough to think that I can rely solely on one platform that I have no control over to make me money. FB, IG and G make so many algorithm updates and wipe out people's cash cows every day. It makes me wonder why people pour everything they have into building a business based on a platform that changes its rules on a whim.
 
alwaysinvisible said:
You make a good point. Too many people - including me - use Google for everything. They've actually got us where we don't want to use any other products or search engines. Honestly, I tried using Bing for a month just to break myself out of the habit of Googling everything. I didn't last 48 hours. I hated it. I don't think it was necessarily inferior. I'm just used to using Google and I don't think I'm ready to change that yet.
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It is sort of sad to think of the grip these companies have on us. In theory I'm very privacy-minded but I've given over most of my life to Google and Facebook in exchange for convenience and free services.

It's hard to get too upset about the passing of this site, looking at the content my gut instinct is "good riddance." But if they are telling the truth and didn't do any blackhat shit then it is unsettling to think about Google as a de-facto censor. Sure, it's easy to say that you can always use another platform, but in practical terms Google might as well be THE platform. If Google and Bing were to collaborate in delisting sites with content they didn't approve of then the sites would be invisible to 95% of the population. If Twitter and Facebook joined in the ban the site would be invisible to 99% of the population.

There's this idea that censorship only refers to orders handed down from the government. While it's true that that sort of censorship is the most objectionable I think it's far from the most dangerous in an age where a handful of companies control 99% of the population's media intake.

It's sort of interesting that this feels like a conservative talking point now but it was made most forcefully by social democrat George Orwell half a century ago:

"The chief danger to freedom of thought and speech at this moment is not the direct interference of … any official body. If publishers and editors exert themselves to keep certain topics out of print, it is not because they are frightened of prosecution but because they are frightened of public opinion. In this country intellectual cowardice is the worst enemy a writer or journalist has to face. … The sinister fact about literary censorship in England is that it is largely voluntary...

The issue involved here is quite a simple one: Is every opinion, however unpopular — however foolish, even — entitled to a hearing? Put it in that form and nearly any English intellectual will feel that he ought to say 'Yes.' But give it a concrete shape, and ask, 'How about an attack on Stalin? Is that entitled to a hearing?' and the answer more often than not will be 'No.' In that case the current orthodoxy happens to be challenged, and so the principle of free speech lapses. If one loves democracy, the argument runs, one must crush its enemies by no matter what means. And who are its enemies? It always appears that they are not only those who attack it openly and consciously, but those who ‘objectively’ endanger it by spreading mistaken doctrines. In other words, defending democracy involves destroying all independence of thought. These people don’t see that if you encourage totalitarian methods, the time may come when they will be used against you instead of for you."

So yeah, sorry if this is moving away from IM and into political and journalistic philosophy. If it's shown the site violated Google's rules regarding SEO and promotion then good riddance, if they are being punished for being "fake news" I certainly agree that they seem to be but I worry about the implications down the line.
 
topcalibercontent said:
If it's shown the site violated Google's rules regarding SEO and promotion then good riddance
Click to expand...

Let's not get the peanut gallery riled up again.

It doesn't matter if they actually did or didn't do anything wrong. If they did, good. They got what they deserved. If they didn't, it doesn't matter. Again, Google is not obligated to list any website in its search engine.

Their primary objective is to make money. They can make whatever changes they want to make in order to line their pockets. And since they are held responsible by a board of directors, they have to do whatever they say to keep the money rolling in.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-google-news-idUSKBN1621C1

If G is held responsible for the content they publish, that means money out of their pocket. They're going to get hit with fines and lose money. Is it a drop in the bucket? Yes. But will their shareholders like it? No.

It's better to just eliminate whatever is causing them to come under fire. Their bottom line is infinitely more important than free speech.

It's not personal people. It's just good business.
 
My thought run about three ways, and one is just a continuation of the other.

The first is that due to the fall out of the US Presidential elections Google and Facebook are examining what could compose *Fake News* more closely. I have also seen that now that there is nearly unanimous agreement in medical communities about the dangers of medical quackery and I have seen several sites shut down over this alone. Google and Facebook are, in the end and subject to US law.

The next issue that none of us really know at this time is how many parasite sites there were supporting that site. I remember Penny's being deindexed many years ago for parasite sites that seemed to exist only to provide links for Penny's.

The third thought is PBN's. PBN's are really nothing more that an extension of the parasite site above. They are a little more complex than a simple parasite, but parasites they are. Google is coming down on PBN's because they manipulate page position. Also, the artificial intelligence Rank Brain may have seen something we do not know about.

If you run a simple link test for natural news dot com @"link:naturalnews.com" you find many links that are not so nice about the site. About 538,000 links calling the owner a scam and bullshit artist that was giving information that is harmful. Some of the material also suggest link manipulation.
https://www.google.com/search?q=link:naturalnews.com&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
 
alwaysinvisible said:
It's better to just eliminate whatever is causing them to come under fire. Their bottom line is infinitely more important than free speech.
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I didn't mean to suggest anything other than this. They seem to be operating within their rights. My worry is that some point what becomes good for business is bad for society.

We're already to the point where just about all means of communication are owned by corporations and the number of corporations that control 99% of people's information intake is shrinking. We're getting to the point where there's no practical difference between corporate and government censorship, except when corporations shut people up people shrug their shoulders because in America corporations have no obligations beyond making money and following the letter of the law.

The business side of my mind might shrug this off as a fact I need to deal with but the part of me that is concerned about totalitarianism of all stripes is getting more and more disturbed by the idea. (Especially since we have clear evidence of governments pressuring corporations to censor even undeniable facts and corporations complying. See Google in China.)

I've said my part, I'll refrain from further posting so people can focus more on the IM ramifications of this news.
 
Let that be a lesson to guy don't buy Google adwords.
The more you gave Google your money,they can use that money against marketers by patching the algorithm and hiring anti spam teams.Look for other ways of advertising besides Google adwords they don't own the internet.I will rather spam Google than giving them a cent.
 
JustUs said:
My thought run about three ways, and one is just a continuation of the other.

The first is that due to the fall out of the US Presidential elections Google and Facebook are examining what could compose *Fake News* more closely. I have also seen that now that there is nearly unanimous agreement in medical communities about the dangers of medical quackery and I have seen several sites shut down over this alone. Google and Facebook are, in the end and subject to US law.

The next issue that none of us really know at this time is how many parasite sites there were supporting that site. I remember Penny's being deindexed many years ago for parasite sites that seemed to exist only to provide links for Penny's.

The third thought is PBN's. PBN's are really nothing more that an extension of the parasite site above. They are a little more complex than a simple parasite, but parasites they are. Google is coming down on PBN's because they manipulate page position. Also, the artificial intelligence Rank Brain may have seen something we do not know about.

If you run a simple link test for natural news dot com @"link:naturalnews.com" you find many links that are not so nice about the site. About 538,000 links calling the owner a scam and bullshit artist that was giving information that is harmful. Some of the material also suggest link manipulation.
https://www.google.com/search?q=link:naturalnews.com&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
Click to expand...

:eek::eek::eek: You mean they might have actually deserved to be deindexed bc they broke one of G's terms of guidelines??

But...but...free speech! And...and...conspiracy theories! And free speech!

:rolleyes: People are so quick to make everything so complicated, when the real reason is so fundamentally simple.

topcalibercontent said:
in America corporations have no obligations beyond making money and following the letter of the law
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Bingo. They're not obligated to do anything else, and they haven't done anything else. If anything they've saved their own asses, bc the stuff printed on that website was harmful. It was not written by a medical professional. It was written by a crackpot. G simply covered their asses the way anyone else would have. Do you really want to be sued for billions of dollars bc you support people's rights to post shit? Didn't think so.

So please stop mentioning all the "political" aspects of this case. That's why the last thread was shut down. We don't need a repeat.
 
alwaysinvisible said:
:eek::eek::eek: You mean they might have actually deserved to be deindexed bc they broke one of G's terms of guidelines??

But...but...free speech! And...and...conspiracy theories! And free speech!

:rolleyes: People are so quick to make everything so complicated, when the real reason is so fundamentally simple.



Bingo. They're not obligated to do anything else, and they haven't done anything else. If anything they've saved their own asses, bc the stuff printed on that website was harmful. It was not written by a medical professional. It was written by a crackpot. G simply covered their asses the way anyone else would have. Do you really want to be sued for billions of dollars bc you support people's rights to post shit? Didn't think so.

So please stop mentioning all the "political" aspects of this case. That's why the last thread was shut down. We don't need a repeat.
Click to expand...

If you read the article http://www.naturalnews.com/2017-02-...oles-natural-news-investigative-articles.html dude states there was no notice in WMT. Sure, he could lying, but lets assume he's not. If it was a violation, or technical glitch (on naturalnews side) it would be mentioned in WMT.

G and their numerous tentacles were heavily involved in all that Arab Spring stuff, so......
 
A very good point was brought up here: there was a big shakeup recently, a lot of people thought it was an update.

I had a site disappear and it came back to life out of nowhere, but I did not have links from Natural News.....but maybe it was a ripple effect?

I wonder what the effect would be if Huffpost and Independent and others were taken out, we'd likely see a MAJOR shift in SERPs.

I always thought the WWW was more legit before links became worth money. I think if suddenly links were worth nothing, the whole linking structure of the WWW would change very suddenly.
 
Can anyone do a TL;DR for me?

Was this just part of the fake news crackdown?

smiley.jpg
 
Ste Fishkin said:
Can anyone do a TL;DR for me?

Was this just part of the fake news crackdown?

smiley.jpg
Click to expand...

Google no longer only penalizing SEO "spam", now also removing content they deem to be fake news, removing the decision power from the individuals and taking their "curation" of the WWW a notch up to the point it looks like nanny state and/or a 1984ish dystopian reality where what we SEOs knew was already happening 10 years ago is now reaching mainstream and folks are beginning to realize Google may have too much power in their hands I'm only writing this because I have another tab open with a really really naughty GIF and my wife is watching over my shoulder so I gotta keep typing this and so Google has too much power and they're censoring everything and they have a central Rank Brain that now decides what constitutes fake or not.
 
Hubba said:
If you read the article http://www.naturalnews.com/2017-02-...oles-natural-news-investigative-articles.html dude states there was no notice in WMT. Sure, he could lying, but lets assume he's not. If it was a violation, or technical glitch (on naturalnews side) it would be mentioned in WMT.

G and their numerous tentacles were heavily involved in all that Arab Spring stuff, so......
Click to expand...

They don't need to tell him dick. They don't owe him an explanation. They don't owe him anything.

Being listed in G is a privilege, not a right.

I honestly hope he stays blacklisted. It's a good reminder that the rug can be pulled out from under you at any time, and there's not a damn thing you can do about it.
 
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