How do you deal with straight up scammers?

[sevnthaxiom]

First off Use paypal always. when using paypal make sure invoices are used. Leave as much paper trail as possible. If you are selling a product, demand 50% up front. Also get their Skype, Email etc. As much info as possible and google their names. Scammers usually leave a trail of deceit and get complained about everywhere. Most the time you will just get burned if this is the first time this happens to you. Everyone gets scammed at least once online, its part of the game. Take it as a hard lesson and take measures next time you make a deal online.

 

[ContentWriter]

As much info as possible and google their names. Scammers usually leave a trail of deceit and get complained about everywhere

Hi, @sevnthaxiom. Good point. That's what I personally do, especially when I'm dealing with a big transaction.

 

[Account Expert]

Use a repackage system, there are plenty here in China.

 

[m0us3]

I have 2 returns on ebay that are nothing but scammers.
Return # 1: The guy joins ebay on sept. 2, and makes a purchase from me that same day. 3 days after the item shows delivered this guys opens a return claiming to have received an empty box.
I dont dropship.. all my items are on hand and packed and shipped by me and I dont ship empty boxes. It evidently takes this guy 3 days to realize the box was empty.
Return # 2: This second dude ironically joins on sept 2, and makes a purchase on sept 5, and a few days after the item is delivered opens a case of item not as described claiming it does not work.
I approve the return and allow them to print a label through ebay. This person does not use the ebay label but instead uploads their own tracking number and it shows the item is on its way back to me.
Well I get a notification from ebay saying that the return is delivered and that I should issue a refund. But when I check my mailbox there is no package there.
I call my local post office inquiring about the tracking number and find out that the package was sent to a local business and was nothing more than a childs trading card in a box addressed to this business. The tracking number showed the package delivered to the correct zip code but of course the destination address was not mine and it did not contain the returned item.
In ebays eyes the buyer had returned the package and was eligible for a full refund. So I immediately call ebay having tons of evidence that this fucker is trying to scam me and guess what?
They told me that i should try to work it out with my buyer.. he could have mistakenly uploaded a tracking number in which an insignificant item was shipped to a random business in my zip code which in fact showed the item delivered and was sufficient proof of the return..... until of course my investigation proved otherwise. Yeah Right!
So ebay sides with scammers and the legitimate seller is left to contend with this on their own... So how do you deal with these types of situations?
I am a small time seller and if an item is defective then I need it returned to me so that I can make a claim with my vendor in order to be reimbursed... but pieces of shit like this are trying to game the system on my dime and get something for free.

What about the recorded weight of the package when it went out vs when it came in? Also, did ebay still take their cut on the transaction or do they refund the 20 percent? Thanks for the heads up. I guess its a bad idea to do business with new members that do not have many revoews

 

[aff219]

What about the recorded weight of the package when it went out vs when it came in? Also, did ebay still take their cut on the transaction or do they refund the 20 percent? Thanks for the heads up. I guess its a bad idea to do business with new members that do not have many revoews

the argument of "it weighed x when it went out but only x went it came back" will only hold up if the weight was recorded and stored in the tracking ifno when he sent it back, and that's the only value that woudl have a chance of holding weight, as if you were to tell them "when it came back to me it was 5 oz instead of 2lbs" will be unprovable claim when told to ebay otherwise

also when refunds occur ebay gives you back the fees associated as well, i believe in the form of credit to your next bill (I never actually looked now that I think about it)

 

[Aatrox]

Don't really know as I don't see there, but there is this one thing I bought from ebay and it came really late. I requested the refund as I didn't get the package within the date he has given me. 2 weeks pass by I get the item. I contact the guy saying that I got it and that I would now like to pay for it. So I say to him that I will buy another item, but he should not ship it to me because I got the refund for the first one. He said great, thanks for being honest with us. Few weeks later I get the same item to my address haha I tried to be fair to him, but the guy sent me 2 items for a price of one.

 

[Deleted member 657006]

I deal with scammers the right way ,

when sending anythink i get a photo of the item ,and even a shot at the parcel shop , i do a short video of the item working before boxing and i mention in video just incase a scammer tell me the item dont work or It not as described .

I write clearly no returns and buy as seen and uk only on my advert .

I make sure i put all info in one folder and keep it as the item in quistion .

I did once have a user try it on ,was so funny becouse every ebay tos way to get the payment back couldnt as i had every angle covered.

Camera.
Video.
Correct advert wording.
Proof of sending documents.
Always use tracking with weight info.

Sold as seen
No returns

All items wrapped with a box and warning fragile tape around box.

You might see this as exstream ,but i see each sale as challenge, and it ant sold till it in that users hands, then far as i am concerned case over , i just file all evedence to a folder for future refrence.

Ebay got no chance,
Nor has stupid ebay scammers.

 

[Deleted member 755860]

yeah, im sorry to hear that, does ebay have a warranty or protection for sellers that you can make claims ?

 

[aff219]

Don't really know as I don't see there, but there is this one thing I bought from ebay and it came really late. I requested the refund as I didn't get the package within the date he has given me. 2 weeks pass by I get the item. I contact the guy saying that I got it and that I would now like to pay for it. So I say to him that I will buy another item, but he should not ship it to me because I got the refund for the first one. He said great, thanks for being honest with us. Few weeks later I get the same item to my address haha I tried to be fair to him, but the guy sent me 2 items for a price of one.

that is very nice of you for doing that. 99.9% of people wouldn't bother, people like you are what make ebayers like me enjoy what we do. Many ebayers (myself included) try to treat them special to know how much they're appreciated.

-I've sent a random free item to them related to whatever they purchased if i have something I don't mind gifting
-agreed on partial refund, due to good buyer experience decide to up it to a complete refund as a surprise
-offered a strong discount on anything they want that's listed, going as far as providing it to them at cost and/or shipping
-in the event of buying something people want more of (such as collectable niches), add in extra items to the box that i think they'll like. I once raised the value of a purchase from 15 for a single item, to 200+ for a box of items, because the buyer was super polite and kind and it was near christmas so I wanted it to be a nice gift.

I've made a few long term customers this way over the years, a portion of which wind up becoming a non-ebay relationship where they contact me directly, I give them large breaks in price due to the level of repeated business and removal of ebay platform fees.

for future reference though, ebayers dealing with medium to large volume may completely forget/overlook/miss the arrangement between you two, and ESPECIALLY if they have a dropshipping or automated workflow set up so they dont manually deal with purchase and transactions

Next time I would recommend sending the payment back through paypal to avoid this issue from occuring, not including bay in the system so there's no issue of the system thinking you just bought a second item

but yeah, being a friendly, overly polite and unexpectedly good experience is a great method to increase your sales, loyal fan base, and inventory movement. that ultimately increases your revenue despite the loss on gifted items

 

[m0us3]

the argument of "it weighed x when it went out but only x went it came back" will only hold up if the weight was recorded and stored in the tracking ifno when he sent it back, and that's the only value that woudl have a chance of holding weight, as if you were to tell them "when it came back to me it was 5 oz instead of 2lbs" will be unprovable claim when told to ebay otherwise

also when refunds occur ebay gives you back the fees associated as well, i believe in the form of credit to your next bill (I never actually looked now that I think about it)

Oh okay...wow. Do you have business insurance or you dont bother? I wonder what insurance would require one to do as proof of shipment? hmmm.

It really sucks that there is so many unethical people. I wonder what independant websites do to deal with people like that?

 

[aff219]

Oh okay...wow. Do you have business insurance or you dont bother? I wonder what insurance would require one to do as proof of shipment? hmmm.

It really sucks that there is so many unethical people. I wonder what independant websites do to deal with people like that?

a standalone website can make its own TOS and thus play by its own rules. they could have a no return no refund policy if they wanted, as long as the buyer agrees to the terms in some form during the process theyre not going to be able to do anything.*

*They could take it to court and go through that ordeal, but obviously thats not realistic practice for most transactions. They could also file a chargeback with the respective CC they used, which agian goes into all the legal matters that typically result from such things

i purchase shipping insurance for higher value items but that's it. In truth I've dealt with very few scammers and fraud. The amount spent on some form of insurance would greatly outweigh the use it gets in practice. I'm not sure that there's even any real form of "customer fraud insurance" available for such things

Granted, due to how much I'm growing I am considering getting business insurance not for dealing with retail fraud, but simply for security for my inventory and storage aspects etc. if someone broke in and stole my inventory it would hurt, a lot.

also recently got a surveillance system

 

[aff219]

I deal with scammers the right way ,

when sending anythink i get a photo of the item ,and even a shot at the parcel shop , i do a short video of the item working before boxing and i mention in video just incase a scammer tell me the item dont work or It not as described .

I write clearly no returns and buy as seen and uk only on my advert .

I make sure i put all info in one folder and keep it as the item in quistion .

I did once have a user try it on ,was so funny becouse every ebay tos way to get the payment back couldnt as i had every angle covered.

Camera.
Video.
Correct advert wording.
Proof of sending documents.
Always use tracking with weight info.

Sold as seen
No returns

All items wrapped with a box and warning fragile tape around box.

You might see this as exstream ,but i see each sale as challenge, and it ant sold till it in that users hands, then far as i am concerned case over , i just file all evedence to a folder for future refrence.

Ebay got no chance,
Nor has stupid ebay scammers.

you must not deal with many transactions as a process that in depth is unrealistic for any amount of volume

furthermore i'm pretty sure if the buyer claims "the item i received isnt what you claimed", ebay will ignore your no return policy as you "still have to deliver the item as represented", and your video documentation wouldnt' do anything as theres no proof you didn't swap packages as soon as the camera shut off (this is just a theory, but I'd imagine so)

 

[Old Dog]

Thanks for the replies.
Just thought I would update yall on how things turned out.
Return #1 The guy claimed to receive an empty box. I bluffed him out on the return asking for details and pictures of the package in order to report it to the postal inspector to pursue criminal mail theft charges against whoever may have stolen the item. I also claimed to have the serial number of the item documented and that the last time this happened the person responsible was arrested for mail theft and prosecuted.
I even called the guy because he actually gave his real phone number in the order details. I claimed to be from the claims and fraud department and needed more information about the item. He hung up on me.... LOL!
I accepted the return and uploaded a return label addressed to the "Claims and Fraud Department" with my return address. And 30 days later after this scumbag was too scared to do anything I called Ebay and had the return closed in my favor.

Return #2 In my OP I said Ebay told me to work it out with the buyer. Well I sent the buyer multiple messages saying the refund will not be given until the item is returned to my correct address and that I had uploaded proof to the return that the item was not mailed to my return address and blah blah blah. I even tried the serial number is recorded and postal inspector bluff and all that shit.
I called Ebay the day before the refund was due and the person told me to let it ride and assured me that if the case was escalated then I would be able to state my case before a decision was made.
WRONG! The buyer escalated the case at 9:30 am on the past due refund date and at 9:57 am the case was found in his favor and a refund given from my paypal account.
I called Ebay and ask to appeal the decision and they offered me a one time courtesy refund of the amount returned to the scammer. I refused and said that I want to appeal the decision because I had documentation from USPS showing the destination address for the tracking number provided by the buyer was NOT my address.
They gave me the opportunity to upload my proof again in the appeal and I did so. 24 hours or so later I got an email saying Ebay had reversed the decision and I thought great I won this appeal. Then about 20 minutes later I got the email saying they was giving me my 1 time courtesy refund.
So the scammer got my item and his money back and I got a one time courtesy refund from Ebay... What a fucking joke.
During the time of the return I was in contact with another seller that this guy was claiming a fraudulent return with. They lost their case as well and we both have reported the buyer but he is still up and running on Ebay and probably doing it to others as I type this.
So just look out guys and dont sell anything on Ebay that you cant afford to lose.

 

[JimBean04]

I got scammed off a used laptop once said he didn't receive it, I was pissed but I got like 5

 

[aff219]

firstly, that is a great job with return #1. I will be taking note of your tactics and using them myself if ever necessary, bravo!

I would advise you take the route I recently did - I have bought holographic void labels to place on all goods that I think might be targets for fraud. In my ToS / fine print I mention that I apply void labels to most items (always shown in pictures if so) and upon return the label MUST be present and untampered with if the item was sold with one.

I believe this really won't matter for most ebay returns as their ToS is pretty uncaring about such things, but for something like 5 cents an item it's another scare tactic against potential thiefs. Only the well experienced ones that know the ins and outs well will ignore such a thing IMO

for return #2:
just as I described, the "one time courtesy refund" is the best result in situations like this. One of the biggest flaws with eBay is their system is designed to try and please as many as possible, but there's a glaring loophole as you've now experienced where retail fraud can run rampant, sadly. I've tried my best to combat it but there's little you can do, short of going after the scammer via legal action which I'm sure is not worth it for most transactions. I have heard story that if you lawyer up and defend your side of the situation with threat of legal pursuit ebay will bow down, assuming the situation (as this one is) has sufficient legally binding evidence that you're in the right and the buyer is performing fraud. They quit defending their ToS and agree with law at that point. This supposedly also works with feedback as neg feedback is technically "online defamation of character or entity" in many cases

I believe the report rate has to reach 10% of total transactions in X amount of time for anything to happen, this is based on some information that was shared to me via an ebay rep I made friends with back when I was new. I do not know how accurate this info is nor if anything's changed in the last 4-5 years.

lil more info - if you even just reach a 10% case rate as a buyer or seller, your account will get flagged for auto-punishment, even if the cases are closed in your favor.

 

[aff219]

just wanted to chime in to give a thank you to Old Dog for his updates to the cases he was dealing with.

I have just started dealing with an issue of a customer I believe is trying to scam me (Bought 50 dollar item, tracking says delivered, he messages me shouting the next day claiming hes been home all day and nothing is there, and has now started asking if i applied signature confirmation, insurance, etc and saying things like "tracking is proof of post, proof of post is not proof of delivery"

I'm now using the claims n fraud scare tactic to make the fucker think twice. THough even without it, the fact that tracking is marked as delivered means ebay would back me up if he tries to pull shit, I'm giddy and eager to see how he reacts to hearing the words "mail fraud" "federal crime" and "legal action"

 

[SEOBla3e]

I will suggest if you sell valuable goods all ways to not work with members without all or little feedback.Also in eyes of Ebay will be most trusted if you have great or power seller rank.All dispute you will won.

 

[aff219]

i've always left restrictions out but in the last year or so I've begun to agree with that mindframe. I have the most trouble with buyers under 50 feedback

I've always tried to avoid shrinking my target audience, but over the years there's an obviously higher deficit rate with newbie accounts to the point where I'm probably going to start setting up restrictions exactly like that.

In other news, it's now been going on 3 days since I've last heard from the buyer claiming his package never arrived despite tracking marked as delivered. He was very quick to respond initially, but has gone completely silent since I sent out the fraud n claims department message.

This is one of the best things I've ever seen, Loving it.