Moving to a cheaper country

[toml3030]

This is what the US government and media want you to believe...
Education in US is pretty average, just check the results where they compare youngsters from all around the world.

US will always do bad in this sort of ratings because US has a pretty big % of the population that is permanent underclass. Take out the bottom 1/4 out of every country and US is among the best.

US has the 2nd highest incarceration rate on the planet,

This is due to the fact that 1. US has the permanent underclass I mentioned above which have much higher rate of incarceration than general public, and 2. harsh drug laws that have harsh punishment for people who sell drugs. Don't sell drugs if you don't want to go prison in the US, kids....

The hospitals aren't better than in Cuba, not to compare them with some European or Asian countries.

You are kidding, right?

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2012/06/201265115527622647.html

"By the time I moved to Cuba in 1997, there were serious shortages of medicine - from simple aspirin to more badly needed drugs.

Ironically, many medicines that cannot be found at a pharmacy are easily bought on the black market. Some doctors, nurses and cleaning staff smuggle the medicine out of the hospitals in a bid to make extra cash.

Although medical attention remains free, many patients did and still do bring their doctors food, money or other gifts to get to the front of the queue or to guarantee an appointment for an X-ray, blood test or operation.

If you do not have a contact or money to pay under the table, the waiting time for all but emergency procedures can be ridiculously long.

...

I saw many hospitals where there was often no running water, the toilets did not flush, and the risk of infections - by the hospital's own admission - was extremely high."

 

[toml3030]

You can keep money in PR/USVI and move there every so many years to bring the money to yourself.

IRS says you have to establish residency each year by living there 183 days out of the year, receive mail there, vote there, send your kids to schools there, have a driver's license there, etc.

 

[THUNDERELVI]

Yes, but we were talking about doing everything remotely to legally evade taxes for US citizens, living in US. As you said, to take advantage of the PR tax laws, you have to establish legal residency in PR for EACH TAX YEAR, as in you have to legally live in PR more than 50% of the time.



I have bank accounts and legal entities in 5 countries outside US and my brother is an attorney who deals with immigration and international investments. I would bet I have a lot more experience in this stuff than you.



Again, this is moot if you're not willing to establish legal residency in PR at least 183 days a year.

This is straight from the IRS publication 570 dealing with this.

"Marcos Reyes, a U.S. citizen, moved to Puerto Rico in 2015 to start an investment consulting and venture capital business. His spouse and two teenage children remained in California to allow the children to complete high school. He traveled back to the United States regularly to see his spouse and children, to engage in business activities, and to take vacations. Marcos had an apartment available for his full-time use in Puerto Rico, but remained a joint owner of the residence in California where his spouse and children lived. Marcos and his family had automobiles and personal belongings such as furniture, clothing, and jewelry located at both residences. Although Marcos was a member of the Puerto Rico Chamber of Commerce, he also belonged to and had current relationships with social, political, cultural, and religious organizations in California. Marcos received mail in California, including bank and brokerage statements and credit card bills. He conducted his personal banking activities in California. He held a California driver's license and was also registered to vote there. Based on all of the particular facts and circumstances pertaining to Marcos, he was not a bona fide resident of Puerto Rico in 2015 because he had a closer connection to the United States than to Puerto Rico."

First of all, we are not racing here - you may have a brother who is a lawyer, be one yourself for all I care or have more experience than me, sure... In fact, I have admitted many times in other tax-related/law topics here in BHW that this is a field that I know nothing about, however when you are there yourself sitting on the table with my friend and his lawyer discussing how to reduce taxes from 40% to 4% legally, it's as real as it can get. Do you have to live in PR for half the year? Yes! Do you save hundreds of thousands of $$ every year by doing this? Yes! Are there any other options? Of course there are. I just mentioned this based on a real case study and because it's so easy to implement provided you have a good lawyer to take care of you, which you already do it seems.

Second, even though PR has a special territorial status, it's still subject to US laws, regulations etc... and most standards. So, it's not a third world country, it's actually part of the US and you don't even need a passport/visa to travel there, just book a ticket. You can also find skilled labor at reasonable wages (lower than most other states), Healthcare and all the other things you are used back home. And, it's just a few hours away from home, so it will be like taking extended vacations in a beautiful island each year with the added benefit of saving 6 figures in taxes. It may not apply to every kind of business, but it's totally worth it in my opinion if it does apply to your business. If I was an American, this is what I would actually do, because it works!

 

[toml3030]

when you are there yourself sitting on the table with my friend and his lawyer discussing how to reduce taxes from 40% to 4% legally, it's as real as it can get.

Again, I was talking about legally reducing taxes for US citizens living in US that doesn't involve having to move 1/2 the year somewhere else. If avoiding income tax was the most important thing, you can legally pay 0% income tax if you establish legal residence in Bahamas or Cayman Islands.

 

[Capo Dei Capi]

IRS says you have to establish residency each year by living there 183 days out of the year, receive mail there, vote there, send your kids to schools there, have a driver's license there, etc.

Where the kids are sent to school isn't the only factor and other things will out weigh it. Lets be real, someone at that level would probably be sending their kids to a boarding school.
You can change your address for bank accounts and brokerage accounts, register to vote and get a drivers license all within the first day arriving to your home in PR. The example you gave showed someone that had everything connected to the mainland and not PR.

And you don't need to do it every year, you can build up money for 5 years, and then in the 6th year go to PR and transfer the money from the company to yourself. Do another 5 years of building etc. Meanwhile you can focus on tax exempt income sources on the mainland, and reduced tax sources. You can put the money into blue chip stocks to sell after 1 year+1 day for a max 23.8% tax, you can also put money into tax free bonds. Even Long term real estate purchases and selling can sometimes be classified as capital gains and not ordinary income.

 

[toml3030]

Where the kids are sent to school isn't the only factor and other things will out weigh it.

IRS says you have to physically be in PR 183 days out of the year to claim residency for that tax year with exemptions such as medical necessity, military service etc.

Lets be real, someone at that level would probably be sending their kids to a boarding school. You can change your address for bank accounts and brokerage accounts, register to vote and get a drivers license all within the first day arriving to your home in PR. The example you gave showed someone that had everything connected to the mainland and not PR.

Again, the example I was replying to was someone who's physically in US and legally reducing taxes by owning a foreign business entity. As I said in a previous reply, if you establish residency in some jurisdictions you can avoid all income taxes.

And you don't need to do it every year, you can build up money for 5 years, and then in the 6th year go to PR and transfer the money from the company to yourself.

This is true of capital gains on investment vehicles such as selling stocks, etc. You still would have to establish residency in PR each year to pay PR rates on dividend. But if you have a business that throws off cash, that's not how you're going to get paid. What you do is pay yourself a small salary and pay yourself a large dividend. This way you can transfer money to yourself every year at the capital gains tax rate instead of income tax rate.

 

[Capo Dei Capi]

You have to pay yourself a reasonable salary, it can't be too small or the IRS will make you pay regular tax rate on the dividends. You can still take advantage of the low tax rate of the USVI and PR, by keeping it mostly out the mainland, just paying the reasonable salary + what you want for extra and keep the rest in the company to grow. Then you can just go when you retire for 1 year to transfer to yourself personally and put into tax free bonds.

 

[justbrowsing1]

What about building codes? How good are the hospitals and Paremedics, when your life is in need and cost is the last concern. What about the firefighting service?

What about internet connection, how good is the out of country latency to major data centers and what download+upload speeds to those cities. A good in country speed isn't everything

$5-10k a month in most tier 2-3 countries will get better pretty much everything than $5-10k a month in the US.
Places like Thailand have great healthcare if you go private or just have insurance (very cheap). When I was traveling my health insurance provider told me it would be about 3x more expensive if I wanted health insurance for the US than anywhere else I'd been (most of Europe and Asia).
Obviously if you decide to live in the middle of nowhere in Bulgaria you may have issues but then you would if you went to live in the middle of nowhere in Alaska too

Whats so funny about it? Its the reality in 2016.

Unless countries are conspiring with Google,Facebook, Twitter, Bloomberg, Forbes and many other companies. To censor information and provide false information to people out of the country. How can I not know as much as a local.

And obviously they do lol, go compare similar websites from China/Russia to them. Can even buy posts on Bloomberg/forbes on here

 

[Capo Dei Capi]

$5-10k a month in most tier 2-3 countries will get better pretty much everything than $5-10k a month in the US.
Places like Thailand have great healthcare if you go private or just have insurance (very cheap). When I was traveling my health insurance provider told me it would be about 3x more expensive if I wanted health insurance for the US than anywhere else I'd been (most of Europe and Asia).
Obviously if you decide to live in the middle of nowhere in Bulgaria you may have issues but then you would if you went to live in the middle of nowhere in Alaska too


And obviously they do lol, go compare similar websites from China/Russia to them. Can even buy posts on Bloomberg/forbes on here

So you will take the word of someone from ____ that is lying about the country over a business analyst?

 

[justbrowsing1]

So you will take the word of someone from ____ that is lying about the country over a business analyst?

Wasn't just one insurance company I checked with lol. I thought it was a fact that the US' healthcare was really expensive in all honesty, its not letting me post links yet but a quick google seemed to confirm that the US spends more per person on healthcare than most countries in the world and I don't think you have the best healthcare either
You'd definitely struggle to live on $1000 a month in big cities in most places in Eastern Europe as an expat too btw

 

[Capo Dei Capi]

Wasn't just one insurance company I checked with lol. I thought it was a fact that the US' healthcare was really expensive in all honesty, its not letting me post links yet but a quick google seemed to confirm that the US spends more per person on healthcare than most countries in the world and I don't think you have the best healthcare either
You'd definitely struggle to live on $1000 a month in big cities in most places in Eastern Europe as an expat too btw

Bucharest is a big city but $1,000 wouldn't be a struggle. A very large portion of top 100 hospitals in the world are in the USA, so yes best healthcare is in the USA.

 

[tasburrfoot]

in Canada when someone wants a travel policy there are 2 main options

1) worldwide
2) world wide excluding the US.

Second option is cheaper, because the US medical rates are higher.

 

[Capo Dei Capi]

in Canada when someone wants a travel policy there are 2 main options

1) worldwide
2) world wide excluding the US.

Second option is cheaper, because the US medical rates are higher.

Cost and quality are two different issues. A yugo is cheaper than a mercedes but a mercedes is better quality than the Yugo.

 

[justbrowsing1]

Bucharest is a big city but $1,000 wouldn't be a struggle. A very large portion of top 100 hospitals in the world are in the USA, so yes best healthcare is in the USA.

If you live like a local then it would be fine but you'd struggle if you only speak English and don't want to live in what would be considered a slum by US standards. I found Bucharest quite expensive to be honest.

We'll have to agree to disagree on the US having the best healthcare in the world I think

 

[Capo Dei Capi]

If you live like a local then it would be fine but you'd struggle if you don't speak any English and don't want to live in what would be considered a slum by US standards. I found Bucharest quite expensive to be honest.

Bucharest is very cheap, $300 to $350 for a good apartment, could go $250 without even living in the ghetto. Food is going to be cheap at $100 per month max. What city in western Europe or America of similar size is going to be less costly without moving to the ghetto.

 

[tasburrfoot]

Cost and quality are two different issues. A yugo is cheaper than a mercedes but a mercedes is better quality than the Yugo.

You're still on this Merica rah rah! Bullshit I see. America isn't the best. You'll learn that in grade 12 social class I'm sure.

You're correct though cost and quality are mutually exclusive. Expense != quality. Just look in the BHW BST section for proof.

 

[justbrowsing1]

The UK also taxes its citizens for worldwide income if they haven't broken enough ties to the UK.

They say that for obvious reasons but they definitely don't lol. I think most of the richest people 'in the UK' are nomads, I know Richard Branson and Phillip Green don't pay 'income tax' in the UK and they have some pretty blatant ties here lmao.
Off to sleep anyway, night

 

[justbrowsing1]

Bucharest is very cheap, $300 to $350 for a good apartment, could go $250 without even living in the ghetto. Food is going to be cheap at $100 per month max. What city in western Europe or America of similar size is going to be less costly without moving to the ghetto.

Ok I don't think you'd like to live in a $300 apartment in Bucharest, not in the centre anyway but if you say so. I don't remember saying Romania was cheaper than western Europe or America just that you'd struggle to live on $1000 a month, was kind of assuming the post was aimed at people who are single though to be fair.
Cba arguing anyway, just noticed my posts aren't even going up and I need to pm someone so will post elsewhere tomorrow lol

 

[Capo Dei Capi]

You're still on this Merica rah rah! Bullshit I see. America isn't the best. You'll learn that in grade 12 social class I'm sure.

You're correct though cost and quality are mutually exclusive. Expense != quality. Just look in the BHW BST section for proof.

America has the best hospitals. America has the best universities and the best Internet(France and Netherlands are tied with it). The healthcare system can either be among the best or the worst depending if you prefer to pay via taxes and automatically signed up vs less taxes but sign up and pay manually.

 

[DataLayer]

Thought about it after my travels. I would love to move somewhere like that for a year or so just to see how everything works socially.