Capo Dei Capi
BANNED
- Oct 23, 2014
- 752
- 7,253
Your not creating your own product, you are having it put with your companies logo on it. And it shouldn't be too hard to "compete" there are enough people out there to fall for any new MLM scheme.
Omg, MLM makes people turn into WEIRDOS
- Thread starter stharthjw6j
- Start date
RedStain
Regular Member
- Oct 19, 2012
- 201
- 68
Ill just say I think you should do your research into some of the top proven MLMs before saying starting your own would be better. There are far more benefits to joining one that already exists, works, proven, and has many benefits even apart from monetary.
If you do decide to look into the top companies, I will say dont stop just because you ran into some nutjobs with some magic bug juice promising to make you millions by next month. Look at their compensation plan. Ask what limits they have and why their compensation plan is better than "X" companies. There is only one that exists right now with an unlimited comp plan that pays you for unlimited legs and unlimited width. Also ask about their leadership training. What leadership program do they have to help teach you to be successful? Or is it just a company with a product and mediocre comp plan with no standards of leadership where everyone does their own thing?
I personally almost gagged when I was approached with the company I decided to work with. I literally went home that night and laughed because I thought I knew more than they did. All these stupid people getting so caught up in something that is taking advantage of them! I hated MLMs and thought they were all nutjobs like most of the people in this thread. In fact I refused to join for 10 months but being curious I still wanted to learn and watch. I saw how they ran, the leadership, the friendships, and I saw real people become very successful.
Until you have done that level of research, im sorry but no one has any place to pretend they know about something theyve never REALLY looked into.
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7yearitch
Regular Member
- Dec 5, 2013
- 489
- 143
@RedStain
Never thought I'd find an MLM apologist on this forum. The thing about MLM is it's like a cult, a religion. Seriously. I've spent 2 years trying to build one of those businesses but in the end I couldn't stomach the price I have to pay for the so-called dream lifestyle.
"If you know how to do it and do it right, there is no better lifestyle."
These kinds of statements are what I'm talking about. There's no better lifestyle according to whom? MLM people somehow think they have the right to define the "best lifestyle" for everyone, and in their their meetings will always promote their lifestyle as the best, and other life choices as subpar.
It's the "us against them" mentality that exists in religions and cults.
That's the main reason why you see so many weirdos get sucked into this. The way it's set up, it's for people who can't take living life anymore and just want to hand control over to someone else because it's easier that way.
If you want proof, look at the things I was made to do in those 2 years:
1) Meetings. TONS of them. What better way to keep a tight knit community than to spend most of your time with each other. Smart. We should apply this to our membership sites.
2) Always say good things about your uplines. Edification. They're not perfect people, but they'll make you into millionaires, so don't put them down, make them look good. My upline was an asshole. Didn't matter, I still had to edify her. The CULTure takes precedent.
3) Never crossline. A crossline is someone who's from another leg of your upline(s). The reasoning provided: the grass seems greener on the other side, but you might not like it when you're there. No crosslining means no meeting up with your crosslines behind your upline's back. No Christmas parties, no hanging out for drinks, basically no relationships with the other person once they're crossline to you. This is obviously to ensure the stability of your upline's assets, but a very ridiculous, control-freak way of doing it. But you're now one of your upline's assets, so you have no say. Unless you quit. Which brings me to:
4) Quit shaming. Sure we have that here on BHW too, but this is really extreme. It's like you're a total loser if you quit the business, and that you quitting this business means that you'll quit everything else in life because that's something you need to fix by sticking it out in this business. Which, of course, isn't true. People quit all the time. Successful people quit more times than unsuccessful people. Quitting a lot means you're trying a lot of stuff and finding your strengths. Of course you need to be earnestly trying but there's no distinction in MLM. Quitting is quitting and a quitter is a loser.
5) Insulation. This is one of the good things I got from my adventures in MLM whereby I now watch very little TV and read very little of the news. It really helps with being productive. The difference? When I do watch TV now and again, I don't feel guilty. I used to. They made me feel like crap for watching TV. TV is the "electronic income reducer" or something I don't remember. The main point, of course, was to saturate new initiates with information from the CULTure as opposed to what's "out there". I had to listen to CD's (this was a few years back) where they record talks by the successful members and we have to buy those "tools" for the business and fill our heads with "useful" info, things that can make us money, instead of reading the "negative stuff" in the news. HINT TO ALL MARKETERS: Brainwashing works! Jump on the bandwagon.
6) They don't encourage thinking. Why would they? They want you to follow their CULTure, not go think for yourself and find your own conclusions to your unique situation. I was successful in recruitment because I followed this advice: "If they give you more than 3 questions over the phone, hang up and call someone else." They don't want people who think too much. It's built into the script. I got 100 people in my group in no time but I really couldn't stomach the manipulative tactics. I quit and my group disappeared shortly after.
No 6 is the one I hate the most. It's like those people buying WSO's because they're looking for a step-by-step. In business there's no step-by-step anything! You could copy a guy 100% and still not get the same results. There are people who are suited to the MLM industry, but most people are better off figuring things out for themselves.
There's a lot more, but I'll stop there. The thing is MLMs can be a real business, but it's a more Warrior Forum kind of gig. MLM companies know they have to go through a huge volume of numbers to get the ones who will subscribe to this kind of life, so they set up a structure that maximizes conversion and retention rates.
Conversion by having huge meetings with a lot of fanfare, we're social animals and we can't help but get excited about something if we see a lot of other people doing it too. That's why Islam has Mecca. Why on earth would anyone go to an obscure town in an arid just to visit a rock? The person who started the whole thing knew that by doing so it would reinforce the conviction of the believers. Like 1 billion people can't all be wrong kinda thing. Well more than a billion people smoke, so let's light up shall we?
Retention by having people feel very strong emotions. Again a huge room full of people helps amplify emotions. Most of them negative though:
guilt - why weren't you there for the meeting? aren't you serious about your dreams?
shame - are you a quitter? i thought you were stronger than this!
fear - the corporate world is laying people off at an alarming rate! you might be next!
and others. important to note here that negative emotions are always more potent than negative ones.
Conclusion
I've taken too much time writing this, I need to get some rest as I have a speaking engagement tomorow. What can you learn from all of this? A lot. I would recommend newbies join a MLM company. Observe how they do what they do, take notice of the tactics they use and what emotions they invoke in you. If you feel guilty, notice it and study how they did it to you. If you feel like you belong there, take notice of your surroundings the previous days and how you they got you from zero to "this is the best thing ever!!"
You'll learn a lot. But in terms of lifestyle, it's not the best by any standards. It's just another business with a cultish approach built into it.
Never thought I'd find an MLM apologist on this forum. The thing about MLM is it's like a cult, a religion. Seriously. I've spent 2 years trying to build one of those businesses but in the end I couldn't stomach the price I have to pay for the so-called dream lifestyle.
"If you know how to do it and do it right, there is no better lifestyle."
These kinds of statements are what I'm talking about. There's no better lifestyle according to whom? MLM people somehow think they have the right to define the "best lifestyle" for everyone, and in their their meetings will always promote their lifestyle as the best, and other life choices as subpar.
It's the "us against them" mentality that exists in religions and cults.
That's the main reason why you see so many weirdos get sucked into this. The way it's set up, it's for people who can't take living life anymore and just want to hand control over to someone else because it's easier that way.
If you want proof, look at the things I was made to do in those 2 years:
1) Meetings. TONS of them. What better way to keep a tight knit community than to spend most of your time with each other. Smart. We should apply this to our membership sites.
2) Always say good things about your uplines. Edification. They're not perfect people, but they'll make you into millionaires, so don't put them down, make them look good. My upline was an asshole. Didn't matter, I still had to edify her. The CULTure takes precedent.
3) Never crossline. A crossline is someone who's from another leg of your upline(s). The reasoning provided: the grass seems greener on the other side, but you might not like it when you're there. No crosslining means no meeting up with your crosslines behind your upline's back. No Christmas parties, no hanging out for drinks, basically no relationships with the other person once they're crossline to you. This is obviously to ensure the stability of your upline's assets, but a very ridiculous, control-freak way of doing it. But you're now one of your upline's assets, so you have no say. Unless you quit. Which brings me to:
4) Quit shaming. Sure we have that here on BHW too, but this is really extreme. It's like you're a total loser if you quit the business, and that you quitting this business means that you'll quit everything else in life because that's something you need to fix by sticking it out in this business. Which, of course, isn't true. People quit all the time. Successful people quit more times than unsuccessful people. Quitting a lot means you're trying a lot of stuff and finding your strengths. Of course you need to be earnestly trying but there's no distinction in MLM. Quitting is quitting and a quitter is a loser.
5) Insulation. This is one of the good things I got from my adventures in MLM whereby I now watch very little TV and read very little of the news. It really helps with being productive. The difference? When I do watch TV now and again, I don't feel guilty. I used to. They made me feel like crap for watching TV. TV is the "electronic income reducer" or something I don't remember. The main point, of course, was to saturate new initiates with information from the CULTure as opposed to what's "out there". I had to listen to CD's (this was a few years back) where they record talks by the successful members and we have to buy those "tools" for the business and fill our heads with "useful" info, things that can make us money, instead of reading the "negative stuff" in the news. HINT TO ALL MARKETERS: Brainwashing works! Jump on the bandwagon.
6) They don't encourage thinking. Why would they? They want you to follow their CULTure, not go think for yourself and find your own conclusions to your unique situation. I was successful in recruitment because I followed this advice: "If they give you more than 3 questions over the phone, hang up and call someone else." They don't want people who think too much. It's built into the script. I got 100 people in my group in no time but I really couldn't stomach the manipulative tactics. I quit and my group disappeared shortly after.
No 6 is the one I hate the most. It's like those people buying WSO's because they're looking for a step-by-step. In business there's no step-by-step anything! You could copy a guy 100% and still not get the same results. There are people who are suited to the MLM industry, but most people are better off figuring things out for themselves.
There's a lot more, but I'll stop there. The thing is MLMs can be a real business, but it's a more Warrior Forum kind of gig. MLM companies know they have to go through a huge volume of numbers to get the ones who will subscribe to this kind of life, so they set up a structure that maximizes conversion and retention rates.
Conversion by having huge meetings with a lot of fanfare, we're social animals and we can't help but get excited about something if we see a lot of other people doing it too. That's why Islam has Mecca. Why on earth would anyone go to an obscure town in an arid just to visit a rock? The person who started the whole thing knew that by doing so it would reinforce the conviction of the believers. Like 1 billion people can't all be wrong kinda thing. Well more than a billion people smoke, so let's light up shall we?
Retention by having people feel very strong emotions. Again a huge room full of people helps amplify emotions. Most of them negative though:
guilt - why weren't you there for the meeting? aren't you serious about your dreams?
shame - are you a quitter? i thought you were stronger than this!
fear - the corporate world is laying people off at an alarming rate! you might be next!
and others. important to note here that negative emotions are always more potent than negative ones.
Conclusion
I've taken too much time writing this, I need to get some rest as I have a speaking engagement tomorow. What can you learn from all of this? A lot. I would recommend newbies join a MLM company. Observe how they do what they do, take notice of the tactics they use and what emotions they invoke in you. If you feel guilty, notice it and study how they did it to you. If you feel like you belong there, take notice of your surroundings the previous days and how you they got you from zero to "this is the best thing ever!!"
You'll learn a lot. But in terms of lifestyle, it's not the best by any standards. It's just another business with a cultish approach built into it.
RedStain
Regular Member
- Oct 19, 2012
- 201
- 68
I like talking about this stuff. Its something I am definitely passionate about so im not here to argue, just tell you my experiences and let you decide for yourself. Its funny though that none of what you mentioned above was true for my organization. So I want to re-emphasize that you cant take one experience and judge the entire form of marketing on it. Its kind of like racism. Ill touch quickly on each point you made.
#1 A lot of meetings compared to what? Your job? My organization taught to make a goal to have 3-5 meetings per week. You think you have less in the corporate world?
#2 Absolutely untrue. In fact I was taught the opposite. Always edify your downline. "Positive goes downline, negative goes upline" was the exact phrase my sponsor used constantly.
#3 We were taught not to crossline to an extent due to the fact that we want to learn from our uplines and not pass on information crossline because crossline has no vested interest in you. They could give you bad information and it would have no effect on them. Your upline on the other hand takes very careful detail to give you the correct information and training because his success depends on your success.
#4 I have never heard that in my organization. In fact my upline was always saying "well at least I planted a seed, if he doesnt come back around he doesnt come back around. I have plenty more seeds where that came from"
#5 Well that one I dont really see as a negative. I thought that way since before I ever started looking into MLMs.
#6 Absolutely not! In fact I was encouraged highly. The only thing i was told was if I wanted to implement a new idea, to send the idea upline first and have someone with experience tell you if it should be implemented or not. They want it to be fair across the board. If I have some advantage that the newest guy doesnt, he is going to feel discouraged. He will feel like the only reason I became successful was due to that advantage and so therefore he cannot become successful.
So im sorry to say but again, you are making a judgement of all MLMs and organizations based on your own personal experience even though its inhumanly possible to have experienced everything to be able to make that kind of decision.
I got into a cydcor branch office thing after dropping out of highschool, The people there are crazy....we sold quill office supplies door to door many of them never made more than 300$ a week (and those were the good ones) they had meetings where the sang clapped and played games to sort of put people in this excited and happy state of mind and then sending them off to work, you had to pay for everything yourself your car, gas, suit, food everything, they also lie about what it is they do even after the first "interview" you have no real idea what it is the company does until you are taken out on a shadow day where you drive around with another salesman and split the profits with him.....it was very cult like they all stayed very close with each other it was also a massive pyramid scheme where office owners make like 60-70k a year and normal workers made almost nothing but were constantly being told that one day they would have there own office too...i was miserable and quit very quickly. currently i am allot smarter and can detect bull**** much better.
My two cents = if a company has to tell you that they are not a pyramid scheme or an mlm program than its balloney stay away!
Do real corporations and honest businesses ever tell there employees/ interviewees that there not a pyramid scheme...no.
There is a limited amount of ways to make money
A. Sell a product or someone elses products.
B. Provide a service or middleman someone elses service.
C. Print money.
Anything else is most likely fake. I feel terrible seeing people continue to be fooled by these cultlike MLM/ pyramid scheme sharlatans.
My two cents = if a company has to tell you that they are not a pyramid scheme or an mlm program than its balloney stay away!
Do real corporations and honest businesses ever tell there employees/ interviewees that there not a pyramid scheme...no.
There is a limited amount of ways to make money
A. Sell a product or someone elses products.
B. Provide a service or middleman someone elses service.
C. Print money.
Anything else is most likely fake. I feel terrible seeing people continue to be fooled by these cultlike MLM/ pyramid scheme sharlatans.
stharthjw6j
BANNED
- Dec 23, 2013
- 584
- 251
Bwuah ha ha ha haThe fact that you failed to detect the scam at this point right here says something about you.
BrandingBaw
BANNED
- Jan 30, 2012
- 722
- 303
I recently built a website for one of the 'leaders' of a 'populair' MLM.
The guy is on stage claiming to make + $800k/year, yet had issues paying a $400 bill for the site.
LOL.
The guy is on stage claiming to make + $800k/year, yet had issues paying a $400 bill for the site.
LOL.
stharthjw6j
BANNED
- Dec 23, 2013
- 584
- 251
I cannot lie. Looking back at the sequence of events, it was pretty poor. woooosh
Maybe you are young? Lived a sheltered life surrounded by good, intelligent people and you have little to no experience with the slimey parasites of the world? Even the people that send me the automated "one size fits all" christmas cards get "x-ed" off my list. Either you care enough to spend a whole minute doing a christmas cards, or you see ALL of your friends as bullet points on a list. I'd rather be no friend at all than to be a bullet on a list.
MLM is an upgrade from this downgrade. Not self-righteous here, either. Soon as I got out of boot camp, the Marines had me calling every name on the list of my graduating high school class, asking them if they'd like to join the Marine Corps. Those people "x-ed" me off their list forever, and as a result I have very few High School friends that will talk to me. I showed them how important they were to me (call to make a pushy recruitment to the Marines, of all organizations "the few, the proud, the dead on the beach"), and they've shown who I am to them right back, and in spades.
It's a good idea to exercise great caution when trying to intermingle business, particularly sales, with any kind of personal friendship. The potential gain is always dramatically less than the possible loss.
stack paper
Senior Member
- Jan 24, 2008
- 899
- 574
MLM doesn't create weirdos, it attracts them.
BrandingBaw
BANNED
- Jan 30, 2012
- 722
- 303
It certainly does, at the same time it makes them even weirder.
I see people around me closing mobile phone contracts, paying $300 extra for the phone (besides the contract) whilst they could easily get it for free.
When I ask them why they take this expensive offer, I get to hear that they'll earn points with it which will make them rich. It's hard to hold my laugh at such moments.
IMHO every single MLM is one big pile of bullshit, creating some serious personal issues as BillyPart described. Did you know that non-MLM believers are people you should forget about and perhaps even hate?
That's what they (leaders) teach the members on their 'trainings'.
BrandingBaw
BANNED
- Jan 30, 2012
- 722
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pewep
Power Member
- Nov 3, 2008
- 705
- 3,293
I'm saying that maybe you should try to empathize with her rather than looking at her as weird and discarding her. She's still a human being with dreams and inspirations. Perhaps MLM was her niche and it gives her the motivation to be successful in life.
And by the way, there are way, WAY more MLM than blackhat seo multi-millionares. Keep that in mind.
Shit, one day a brotha just might find her flexin on ya (she may become very prosperous and you'll think twice about her tactics).
BrandingBaw
BANNED
- Jan 30, 2012
- 722
- 303
Well first of all, it's not a girl but a guy. A grown man, better said. (Edit; guess your post was a reaction to the OP which was about a grill)
It's funny you claim the millionaire part, but I wonder how you actually know for sure those people are millionaires.
As said, the leading guy in a MLM in my country claims to make + $800k/year (even more now he's promoted to an even higher 'function'), yet had issues paying a $400 bill. The guy can't get any money to buy a house, because he doesn't have shit. I get this information from a client that works at 'his' bank. If you really make $800k/year, you can EASILY get money for a superb villa in my country. Yet, he lives in the very worst part of town, but hey - he's earning $800k/year. He said it himself, numerous times, so it'll be true, right?! Right...
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I feel great looking weird at these assholes and surely don't feel bad for discarding every single one of them. No MLM'er will ever get the chance of 'flexing' on me.
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Oh! That's PEWEP. He/She/It's FAMOUS around here. I read some posts about Pewep last week. He/She/It only shows up occasionally, but when Pewep shows up in a thread, it automatically gains site-wide significance. I thought he/she/it was banned at one point. Read some reference to that in a thread. But maybe not. Prison, death, being transmogrified and uploaded to the Mother Ship have all been theorized. OP should be proud. Pewep is posting in your thread. It's sort of like having Anubis, the dog God of Egyptian mythology, suddenly appear in front of you on the sidewalk and pee on you. Not sure what it might portend, but you can talk about it now, and forever.
BrandingBaw
BANNED
- Jan 30, 2012
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zebrahat
Elite Member
- Aug 6, 2008
- 2,514
- 3,037
That's why the more intelligent advocates for networking (say the Kim Klaver school) talk about divorcing MLM from the 'existing warm market' model, and emphasize being more proficient in traditional business or direct sales skills. That way the multi-level component is no longer a preoccupying crutch, but a booster or accelerator of one's bottom line. IAW, instead of trying to create an organization out of friends and family, most of whom are not inclined towards business, marketing or sales, you concentrate on building a new network of people who are.
Most MLMs don't teach this, because their corporate centers are really after just creating a 'word of mouth" club out of regular people, who will buy or push the products due to the "opportunity" buzz surrounding them. Whether they financially succeed or not, the company is happy, because they don't have to shell out for the huge upfront costs of traditional advertising or payroll.
MLMs will always have appeal because (putting the irrational or 'weirdo' social factors aside), a segment of the audience attracted to business opportunities will always prefer to go with an existing, up and running business system, rather than develop a new one from scratch. There is an aura (or data) behind joining an existing top franchise or buying an existing company, of a higher probability of success. MLM people simply need to do better research apart from hearing the presentation pitches, to be sure the company they are approached by is more like a top franchise, and less like another scam.
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