Europe might break Google up

[PrinceVisi]

China's military is starting to surpass the U.S. military in terms of strength, they have a new fighter jet, just increased their sub's attack range by around 3x, and they are able to detect the latest stealth jet by America by over 200 miles away.

You sure have based that opinion based on the latest articles around on the media, especially in Yahoo.

Have you seen any article that shows what kind of military US has? No, you haven't, as US always complains that their capabilities are being matched or outmatched by Russia and China every time they speak publicly. That's what US always does, but in fact they are unmatched and will be for a very long time.

China just copies everything (not only militarily speaking). This is what you mean by surpass?

Its just like comparing a German BMW and a Chinese replica with a different name.

Fact:

That's what I mean.

 

[Capo Dei Capi]

China does not copy everything, they have some but for most they use inspiration from other devices and hardware. Every country and company in the history of the world has been copying and basing things off other designs.

There is no reason to slander the chinese on here.

 

[sirgold]

How is an industry where people can easily create an alternative and going to the alternative is as simple as entering yandex.com bing.com ask.com yahoo.com aol.com duckduckgo.com ixquick.com startpage.com dogpile.com(and many other alternatives I can't think off top of my head) really subject to anti-monopoly laws. Also if google was a true monopoly wouldn't it be blocking searches like "How to create your own search engine?".

That's a naive assumption, at best, of how theoretical alternatives translate and relate to what actually happens in the real economy... And that's why google is to be considered a "de facto" monopoly, not your college textbook definition of it by which so many "wikipedia economists" try so desperately to stick to... And having proper or de facto monopolies hurts a healthy free market more than it helps it..

China just copies everything (not only militarily speaking). This is what you mean by surpass?

Hard to tell if they're "just" copying military technologies or if they have developed pretty homebrew contraptions as well. I wouldn't be so sure and I don't have a strong desire to find out either..

 

[PrinceVisi]

China does not copy everything, they have some but for most they use inspiration from other devices and hardware. Every country and company in the history of the world has been copying and basing things off other designs.

There is no reason to slander the chinese on here.

Please don't change the subject. I don't have any problem whatsoever with Chinese. I like their electronic replicas and such.

We were talking in terms of power (military power) and I gave you an example. If you do some search you would see that their latest jet that you mentioned above is just a copy of the US one. Do you think a replica is better then the original, especially better then the one who invented it and knows everything about it?

 

[Trepanated]

There are two things that run the world and will do for the rest of the lifetime.

Economy and Power (military power of course) together, example USA.

Russia has power, not economy. China has economy (mainly because of trade with USA, and if something would happen to that trade, China would collapse piece by piece) but not power as the two above have and the list goes on and on.

Military power is becoming less of a factor as global economies become more integrated, intertwined and interdependent.

China's rise as a global player and influencer in the last few decades has been purely as a result of its economic might.

And conversely, Russia's ability to use its military might to exert power has been hampered drastically solely by exerting defensive economic pressures.

Economy is now the dominant factor.

 

[Capo Dei Capi]

Please don't change the subject. I don't have any problem whatsoever with Chinese. I like their electronic replicas and such.

We were talking in terms of power (military power) and I gave you an example. If you do some search you would see that their latest jet that you mentioned above is just a copy of the US one. Do you think a replica is better then the original, especially better then the one who invented it and knows everything about it?

The U.S. did alot of copying with their Operation Paperclip after ww2 which was to copy german tech and designs.In many cases it is better to reverse engineer and copy something that works and learn from it than to start 100% from scratch.

 

[jazzc]

Do you have any idea why USA is a world leader? Apparently not!

It's because it has 50 states united as one. The same thing applies to EU and other world leaders.

I'll butt in and say that the USA is the world leader for 2 reasons:

a) It was the only empire left after WWII and the total collapse of the Brittish
b) It was the most free (as in "free enterprise") country for a long time, getting a huge advantage over the rest.

 

[jazzc]

You all moved from the point, there is nothing wrong with EU and even if will be that is not giving any rights to Google to manipulate the searching words upon his benefit unless these things are not settled by any regulation.

So, you're saying the EU must send you in jail and confiscate all your property because the software your selling is manipulating the search results, damaging the ones who'd rank top otherwise? Really?

 

[jazzc]

China's rise as a global player and influencer in the last few decades has been purely as a result of its economic might.

production

China has a huge production capacity. Production -> wealth. Western nations are mostly interested in consumption bubbles.

 

[PrinceVisi]

Military power is becoming less of a factor as global economies become more integrated, intertwined and interdependent.

China's rise as a global player and influencer in the last few decades has been purely as a result of its economic might.

And conversely, Russia's ability to use its military might to exert power has been hampered drastically solely by exerting defensive economic pressures.

Economy is now the dominant factor.

As I said above, Economy and Military go hand in hand with each other.

China has always been a player and will always be, as are 20 other countries.

The U.S. did alot of copying with their Operation Paperclip after ww2, and they copied alot of designs and tech the germans were using.

I was talking about 2014, not 70 years ago. Also, remember who had the nuke then?

 

[Capo Dei Capi]

Copying is still as good in 2014 as it was in 1945.

Why spend years designing something entirelly new, instead of copying something and making modifications to it.

 

[Trepanated]

production

China has a huge production capacity. Production -> wealth. Western nations are mostly interested in consumption bubbles.

Yes, of course production - that huge, cheap and massively scalable production capacity was the mechanism China used to become an economic powerhouse.

The West was addicted to cheap goods and China had the ability to give it to them.

For a while there it was the perfect symbiotic relationship too - or so everyone thought.

 

[bartosimpsonio]

The world isn't black and white.

The alternative to allowing a rampant monopoly is NOT communism!

The USA has broken several companies down in the past and that does not mean America has gone communist! SOME market regulation is necessary and if you regulate, that does not make your country a communal society.

The 2008 bank crisis and the imminent new crisis we got proves that big banks weren't regulated enough, thus we had that clusterfuck which, by the way, has NOT been fixed yet.

Government intervention in Google is not an option anymore, it's a necessity. It's a monopoly far worse than Microsoft ever was and Microsoft faced over a decade of lawsuits for their OS monopoly abuse!

 

[PrinceVisi]

Copying is still as good in 2014 as it was in 1945.

Why spend years designing something entirelly new, instead of copying something and making modifications to it.

Are you talking about military wise?

The reason to design something new is as simple as it gets: "No one, except you, knows its real power until tested on X war".

 

[Capo Dei Capi]

Google wouldn't be a "de facto" monoply if so many other search engines weren't so horrible designed. Google has a nice simple page, whereas yahoo has an annoying homepage that is filled with gossip and conspiracy theories and alien stories.

 

[sirgold]

The world isn't black and white. The alternative to allowing a rampant monopoly is NOT communism! The USA has broken several companies down in the past and that does not mean America has gone communist! SOME market regulation is necessary and if you regulate, that does not make your country a communal society.

^ Exactly.

The 2008 bank crisis and the imminent new crisis we got proves that big banks weren't regulated enough, thus we had that clusterfuck which, by the way, has NOT been fixed yet. Government intervention in Google is not an option anymore, it's a necessity. It's a monopoly far worse than Microsoft ever was and Microsoft faced over a decade of lawsuits for their OS monopoly abuse!

Now just wait for the latest Austrian economics fan to explain the world in his little crusade how that wasn't a fault of the Market that's -by definition- "right", but conversely the problem was that the regulations were too "socialist", that there's always some other "vice" of form to blame a part from the -obvious- fact that if a company grows too big in a certain area that's gonna potentially yield more or less patent advantages that will eventually hinder any kind of real competition... And all the other usual drivel...

Google wouldn't be a "de facto" monoply if so many other search engines weren't so horrible designed.

It's very possible the capability to develop an equally effective algo also depends on the sheer volume of data other players don't get a chance to process, maybe that's gonna have an effect of the inability to develop similar skills -something you don't acquire overnight- or maybe, simply enough, the lack of access to the roster of talent of your potential employees that someone else has already hired, and there's not an infinite amount of that in any field...

You might say, pay them more and they'll start working for your company, but how can you guarantee them a higher salary or better benefits compared to that other big company? That's more or less how a "de facto" monopoly works compared to the "textbook lingo". And the number of examples could go on for days...

 

[Capo Dei Capi]

It doesn't take a high skilled programmer to design a very simple looking webpage.

 

[jazzc]

The world isn't black and white.

The alternative to allowing a rampant monopoly is NOT communism!

Most things are black & white. One is either pregnant or is not. And the two poles are not monopolies and communism. Monopoly is only possible by force. The two poles are freedom and totalitarianism (i.e. statism, communism, dictatorship, monarchy etc).

The in-betweens are nothing but unstable constructs that end up on totalitarianism or failure (whatever comes first). There is no infinite synthethis. Mixing bacon and shit, you don't end up with something kinda tasty, you end up with shit.

The 2008 bank crisis and the imminent new crisis we got proves that big banks weren't regulated enough, thus we had that clusterfuck which, by the way, has NOT been fixed yet.

The banking sector is THE most regulated thing in the universe, by far. The banking sector is the pillar of your favorite oppression institution, the modern state. THE corner stone; without it, no state as you know it exists. It is the reason the state did not let it dwindle down and forced the tax payers and their yet unborn kids foot the bill. If it proves something, it's your lack of knowledge of the basics of the current financial system.

 

[bartosimpsonio]

I have no idea where to begin to reply to so much wrong in just one post.

I guess I'll just agree to proudly disagree with jazzc once again.

 

[Trepanated]

Most things are black & white. One is either pregnant or is not. And the two poles are not monopolies and communism. Monopoly is only possible by force. The two poles are freedom and totalitarianism (i.e. statism, communism, dictatorship, monarchy etc).

The in-betweens are nothing but unstable constructs that end up on totalitarianism or failure (whatever comes first). There is no infinite synthethis. Mixing bacon and shit, you don't end up with something kinda tasty, you end up with shit.

The banking sector is THE most regulated thing in the universe, by far. The banking sector is the pillar of your favorite oppression institution, the modern state. THE corner stone; without it, no state as you know it exists. It is the reason the state did not let it dwindle down and forced the tax payers and their yet unborn kids foot the bill. If it proves something, it's your lack of knowledge of the basics of the current financial system.

I agree totally on the black and white point.

So many times I see two people arguing apoplectically that their stance is right, when they are both sitting on the 'grayscale' of a subject.

One is screaming that gray is a lighter shade of black (and is better) and the other is screaming that gray is a darker shade of white (and is better) - always amusing.

I do think your point about totalitarianism or failure being the only possible results is an unnecessarily dystopian outlook though.

I think the darker side of human nature does make both end results somewhat more likely - but I don't believe they are the only possible outcomes.

Maybe that just means the tint on my glasses is further on the rose-coloured scale than yours though