Do you host all your sites together?

In case anyone is interested, I use fake whois info for all my domains (but it still looks real, e.g. the addresses all exist, the phone numbers have the right area code and format etc.). I use whois protection as well if it's free but otherwise I don't bother. I don't worry about IPs, if you're using enough hosts then you'll get a mix of unique and shared IPs by default, depending on what each host offers.

You caught my attention here. Are you not worried about your domains? It's very unlikely for anything to happen to them but what if your account gets locked down and you need to verify information? You're screwed then? Or do you still use your name even though you use multiple fake addresses?

IMO that's a big hole in your system because what's the point of all these hosting accounts when if your domain account gets locked your screwed?
 
Google is a domain registrar and knows your whois (even if privacy is used) plus it uses many different ways to catch all of your sites. Using different hosting companies help you diverse the risk.

Really? And what is the source of that information? Because I think it is incorrect. If I register from goDaddy and get whois privacy, then the whois DB contains GoDaddy's info. Hence no other registrar besides GoDaddy knows the true data. So how exactly does Google know the data for whois? AFAIK only way for somebody else to find that info is with a court order.
 
You caught my attention here. Are you not worried about your domains? It's very unlikely for anything to happen to them but what if your account gets locked down and you need to verify information? You're screwed then? Or do you still use your name even though you use multiple fake addresses?

IMO that's a big hole in your system because what's the point of all these hosting accounts when if your domain account gets locked your screwed?

It's 50/50 either way, if you use fake whois then you're putting yourself at risk of getting your domains banned by the registrar for fake info, if you use your real info then you're leaving a big fat footprint for the SEs. Now you can work around that with whois privacy of course, but I've never seen it really proven either way whether G can see behind private whois or not. Theoretically the database of each registrar is theirs and theirs alone, but who knows what kind of shady backroom deals G has going on with registrars, either directly or indirectly through subsidiaries? G has a lot of money and clout and they've proven in the past that their "Do no evil" thing is all bs. I prefer to take the ultra-conservative / paranoid approach in all things internet. In any case I have never ever had an issue with getting queried about my whois info so I prefer to go the more anonymous route. I have lots of registrar accounts (i.e. multiple accounts at some registrars), accessed through different private proxies and using different debit cards where possible, so there is still a fair bit of redundancy there. If I ever had to verify info I would weigh up the value of the domains in that account and then if it was justified I'd Photoshop up some fake docs if it seemed like that would work, but that's never happened so far (knock on wood).

The other thing is that because I'm 100% BH I try not to have my real name on anything if I can help it. In fact if you Google for my real name there are precisely zero results about me and I intend to keep it that way. I always try to push the boundaries of novel blackhattery though, if you were doing whiter sites then a more legit strategy would be appropriate. Obviously if you're using Adsense then it's all irrelevant anyway, but I only push credit card products.

I love BHW! Cool thread by the way.
 
Really? And what is the source of that information? Because I think it is incorrect. If I register from goDaddy and get whois privacy, then the whois DB contains GoDaddy's info. Hence no other registrar besides GoDaddy knows the true data. So how exactly does Google know the data for whois? AFAIK only way for somebody else to find that info is with a court order.

Google knows who is behind the whois privacy just like godaddy knows it. You may read more here.
 
I use three registrars and two hosts. One host for my old penalized Google websites and another for the new empire I'm creating. I plan to get a new host when my new venture becomes profitable, in order to diversify.

Success: 1. Establish profitable model 2. Scale up 3. Diversify!
 
Just curious, is anyone purchasing blocks of ips? Say you have 5 ips through AWS or whatever cloud service, and you have those ips pointed to your web server / load balancer?

I have actually been considering implementing this to be safe. I provide hosting for clients, they own the domains. However, we do have a network of sites that we manage from a business stand point.
 
The other thing is that because I'm 100% BH I try not to have my real name on anything if I can help it. In fact if you Google for my real name there are precisely zero results about me and I intend to keep it that way. I always try to push the boundaries of novel blackhattery though, if you were doing whiter sites then a more legit strategy would be appropriate. Obviously if you're using Adsense then it's all irrelevant anyway, but I only push credit card products.

I can only assume that you don't pay tax? Otherwise you probably use your details to get your blackhat money which would make your operation somewhat pointless as money can easily be followed if it's delivered to your name. PS. You don't have to answer that one. Just wondering. :D

Google knows who is behind the whois privacy just like godaddy knows it. You may read more http://www.blackhatworld.com/blackhat-seo/black-hat-seo/513217-privacy-whois-public-prove-inside.html?highlight=.

That's not exactly the case, I am sure there is an explanation for what you've posted but I really can't be bothered to look into that because your thread doesn't provide much value or information. Another issue with your "theory" is that if that was the case, then why do registrars require you to take down whois protection before transferring a domain name?
 
Google knows who is behind the whois privacy just like godaddy knows it. You may read more here.

That doesn't mean anything. And the post you linked too, i have no idea what u saying there. Is not explicit enough.

There's a registrar DB - a group of whois servers for each TLD. When you interogate a whois server it replies with the info. When using whois guard, you put the guard info in the whois data essentially. So instead of ur name is goDaddy for example. The only place ur real data is stored is with the registrar. So only way for google or anybody, registrar or not, to get that data is to come up with a court order for GoDaddy or whatever registrar u use so they look who owns the domain.
 
I can only assume that you don't pay tax? Otherwise you probably use your details to get your blackhat money which would make your operation somewhat pointless as money can easily be followed if it's delivered to your name. PS. You don't have to answer that one. Just wondering. :D

That makes no sense. He didn't say he's doing something illegal. Credit card products may mean he has sites with reviews for CCs and he does pay-per-lead or something like that with banks.
 
I can only assume that you don't pay tax? Otherwise you probably use your details to get your blackhat money which would make your operation somewhat pointless as money can easily be followed if it's delivered to your name. PS. You don't have to answer that one. Just wondering. :D

I live a perpetual traveller lifestyle mainly based in SE Asia and my business is legally incorporated in a tax free jurisdiction. I'm not liable for any taxes in my native country because I don't live there any more or have any assets there. By credit card products I mean CPS products where the surfer has to pay with a credit card - I don't do Adsense, CPA etc.

Affiliate programs are much more likely to eat complaints and less likely to give up your details than hosting companies or registrars because I make them significant money and have established relationships with them. Sometimes they'll ban you if the complaints get too heavy but generally the decent ones won't give you up if you're not doing anything completely illegal (and thus they are not the target of a subpoena).
 
That makes no sense. He didn't say he's doing something illegal. Credit card products may mean he has sites with reviews for CCs and he does pay-per-lead or something like that with banks.

See, you missed my point there, though I should have probably written it differently. It does make sense if you look at it from a different perspective than the one you've taken on board.

In that post I never said he did anything illegal either, in terms of the way he makes money.

Autumn stated that he doesn't attach his real name to anything, meaning that the income he makes can't really be taxed because if his name isn't attached to his money ventures then how is he going to file taxes when the names and everything doesn't add up? If you pay taxes, you'd obviously want to lower them by filing your expenses, but if your expenses are under fake details, then how are you going to file them? This made me assume that he probably doesn't deal with tax. His reply about leading a perpetual traveler lifestyle with an offshore business in a tax free jurisdiction cleared that up.

I hope this makes sense.
 
Just read Autumn's post on 1st page now. He's more paranoiac than I am and I thought I am very paranoiac. But that's a good thing.

About how I do it.

If I use adsense or same ad network that has a trackable ID or something (e.g. most have, Amazon allows you to make hundreds differetn ones for example) then makes no sense to have them on different hosts and stuff.

If they have no footprints I have them split by blackhat or whitehat (don't keep shit in the fridge nor food in the toilet). Then I have them further split by clusters so I only risk to have a few sites busted at a time. This applies to the link networks I build. Won't link from network A to anything else than a certain cluster of money sites.

Whois - I use privacy and real info mostly for great domains - as in good name - stuff like insurance.com, loanreviews.com etc. stuff where there's high value in the name. Some sites like the adsense ones I use whois privacy and real info too just because i can and is free and because they're connected anyway.

Then sites that i need to look without having a connection to eachother I may use fake whois info. And here I include money sites that may make good money. I just prefer the privacy over anything else bc without it you're screwed. In the event a registrar would ask me why the different whois details, I'd reply that I am managing sites for multiple clients and I expect that to shut them up. Never had anybody inquire though.

Hosting is also clustered similarly. What dictates how i cluster is the footprints I can't avoid. So all adsense sites are on same host bc makes no sense otherwise. Whitehat sites on 2nd host, 3rd host, 4th, etc. depending on how many clusters u need. Same with blackhat sites but always separated from whitehat ones.

It is a bit of a hassle to cluster sites not because it is hard to do it but because it is hard to bend ur mind around a bunch of clusters each with its own plan, links, content, accounts, etc. You you can't make any mistakes to leave connections or traces between them because if you do, you just potentially screwed the privacy of an entire cluster or several clusters. Happily while I have many domains, I don't have that many live sites anymore. Though I guess will have in a while.

Most footprints u leave however are much simpler and dumber ones if you don't understand the link algorithms and some important stuff. Link profiles can tell a lot about 2 sites. They may not be obvious enough in a court of law for example but they are obvious enough for somebody at google to say "these two sites look too similar in the link graph to be a coincidence". You want to avoid that. Then if somebody digs deep you have the HTML, CSS, JS files which can have indicators they were developed by same person. Trust me you potentially can tell if 2 CSS files hae a good chance to be coded by same coder. There are a lot of things that are footprints and a good doxer can figure them out. But there's a balance of how much paranoiac you want to be and how relaxed. Neither of the extremes is good.

About hosting all on same IP and what Matt said about it not being a problem bc most people use shared hosts and stuff. Well, if you have 10 BH sites, 10 WH sites on an IP with 1000 other sites from tens of registrars and stuff then yeah that's all cool. But if you buy a dedicated IP/VPS/server and have 100 BH sites that seem to follow the same pattern then you can bet all are going down when found. And it has happened and even Matt in a video said something along these lines.

The key with blackhat is not to be a badass and look like a badass but be a badass and look like the most innocent child born on this earth, with puppy eyes and soft voice. Proper blackhat is not when you figure a hole in google's algo but when automated stuff that takes you 10min to do looks like real stuff done by 10 people in a year worth of work. Not when sites you make trick google's algos but when they trick any bot and human and anybody would see them as useful and nice sites.
 
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Most footprints u leave however are much simpler and dumber ones if you don't understand the link algorithms and some important stuff. Link profiles can tell a lot about 2 sites. They may not be obvious enough in a court of law for example but they are obvious enough for somebody at google to say "these two sites look too similar in the link graph to be a coincidence". You want to avoid that.

Thanks for the input (my Thanks button expired), it's definitely useful. I was wondering what exactly you meant by this because I didn't quite get you there? At least I don't think I did.
 
Thanks for the input (my Thanks button expired), it's definitely useful. I was wondering what exactly you meant by this because I didn't quite get you there? At least I don't think I did.

I mean people leave patterns behind when they do something. There are patterns on how you choose passwords, usernames, how you code a template, link building types and sources, etc. So most people are likely to have similar link profiles for 2 sites they own - same types, same sources. There's nothing to tell me G looks so deep into this but I'm more worried on competitors than G.

As an example lets say you have 2 sites ranking for "blue widgets". If somebody (G or competitor) analyzes the top 10 sites they might see that the sites have generally different link profiles except for these two which are very similar. More similar than a simple coincidence. Corroborated with similarities in design, content, template code, site structure, etc. it would be enough of a footprint for them to say "these 2 sites are very likely owned by same person". That doesn't necessarily mean you get into trouble because of it, though. But I try to follow the concept of isolation where each cluster of sites is like a terrorist cell like somebody said. Also many times I target tens of thousands of longtail and not rank for main keywords just to avoid the competitors looking into my sites. I get more traffic than they do and at the same time I fly under the radar. If you have the most shittiest BH site ranking for "cheap blue widgets for hanging in garage" which is a keyword that gets maybe 20 searches/month nobody will give a shit about you. Rank #1 for tens of thousands of keywords like that and you make nice money while flying below the radar.

I hope that explains it better.
 
This is that type of thread which should be saved and copy+paste 2-3 times/day when newcomers are asking similar questions. Perfect information. Thanks ShadeDream and madoctopus ;)
 
Just the thread i was looking for!!!! Subscribed. Thanks for all the great input guys.
 
Just read Autumn's post on 1st page now. He's more paranoiac than I am and I thought I am very paranoiac. But that's a good thing.

About how I do it.

If I use adsense or same ad network that has a trackable ID or something (e.g. most have, Amazon allows you to make hundreds differetn ones for example) then makes no sense to have them on different hosts and stuff.

If they have no footprints I have them split by blackhat or whitehat (don't keep shit in the fridge nor food in the toilet). Then I have them further split by clusters so I only risk to have a few sites busted at a time. This applies to the link networks I build. Won't link from network A to anything else than a certain cluster of money sites.

Whois - I use privacy and real info mostly for great domains - as in good name - stuff like insurance.com, loanreviews.com etc. stuff where there's high value in the name. Some sites like the adsense ones I use whois privacy and real info too just because i can and is free and because they're connected anyway.

Then sites that i need to look without having a connection to eachother I may use fake whois info. And here I include money sites that may make good money. I just prefer the privacy over anything else bc without it you're screwed. In the event a registrar would ask me why the different whois details, I'd reply that I am managing sites for multiple clients and I expect that to shut them up. Never had anybody inquire though.

Hosting is also clustered similarly. What dictates how i cluster is the footprints I can't avoid. So all adsense sites are on same host bc makes no sense otherwise. Whitehat sites on 2nd host, 3rd host, 4th, etc. depending on how many clusters u need. Same with blackhat sites but always separated from whitehat ones.

It is a bit of a hassle to cluster sites not because it is hard to do it but because it is hard to bend ur mind around a bunch of clusters each with its own plan, links, content, accounts, etc. You you can't make any mistakes to leave connections or traces between them because if you do, you just potentially screwed the privacy of an entire cluster or several clusters. Happily while I have many domains, I don't have that many live sites anymore. Though I guess will have in a while.

Most footprints u leave however are much simpler and dumber ones if you don't understand the link algorithms and some important stuff. Link profiles can tell a lot about 2 sites. They may not be obvious enough in a court of law for example but they are obvious enough for somebody at google to say "these two sites look too similar in the link graph to be a coincidence". You want to avoid that. Then if somebody digs deep you have the HTML, CSS, JS files which can have indicators they were developed by same person. Trust me you potentially can tell if 2 CSS files hae a good chance to be coded by same coder. There are a lot of things that are footprints and a good doxer can figure them out. But there's a balance of how much paranoiac you want to be and how relaxed. Neither of the extremes is good.

About hosting all on same IP and what Matt said about it not being a problem bc most people use shared hosts and stuff. Well, if you have 10 BH sites, 10 WH sites on an IP with 1000 other sites from tens of registrars and stuff then yeah that's all cool. But if you buy a dedicated IP/VPS/server and have 100 BH sites that seem to follow the same pattern then you can bet all are going down when found. And it has happened and even Matt in a video said something along these lines.

The key with blackhat is not to be a badass and look like a badass but be a badass and look like the most innocent child born on this earth, with puppy eyes and soft voice. Proper blackhat is not when you figure a hole in google's algo but when automated stuff that takes you 10min to do looks like real stuff done by 10 people in a year worth of work. Not when sites you make trick google's algos but when they trick any bot and human and anybody would see them as useful and nice sites.

This is by far the most educational post in this Thread. If anything, G should hire you!
 
I use separate C-class SEO hosting for all of my sites. Its a little more expensive, but definitely more safe and secure.
 
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