Eliminating Post Count on Transactional Forums

[PetraAnn]

What do these threads, found in the Forum Suggestsions & Feedback, have in common?

https://www.blackhatworld.com/seo/messages-and-likes-in-the-marketplace-shouldnt-count.1638799/
https://www.blackhatworld.com/seo/t...ncreasing-post-counts-in-marketplace.1598090/
https://www.blackhatworld.com/seo/disable-post-counts-for-marketplace-posts.1559093/
https://www.blackhatworld.com/seo/can-you-please-add-this-rule-in-the-freebies-section.1829375/
https://www.blackhatworld.com/seo/suggestion-exclude-marketplace-replies-from-post-count.1822628/

These are all threads over the spam of a few years asking to turn off the post count in the marketplace and a few other forums, like the freebies section.

This topic has been coming up an awful lot in our internal team meetings and we're weighing the pros and cons of turning off post counts in transactional forums and leaving it on only for discussion forums. Since we know that community members have brought up this exact thing in the past, we wanted to create a discussion where YOU can write down your own thoughts.

What is a Transactional Forum?

First, lets go ahead and define a transactional forum vs. a discussion forum.

Transactional forums are where a transaction of some type is taking place. It could be someone looking to buy something from a seller in the Marketplace, or it could be sellers responding to a Want to Buy thread. But forums like Freebies is also considered a transactional threads since users are only posting their interest in the freebie and not discussing it. A full list of the transactional forums would look like:

• All of the marketplace forums
• Want to Buy
• Hire a Freelancer
• Service Reviews & Beta Testers Help Wanted
• Freebies/Giveaways
• Member Downloads

Why Would We Want to Take Away Post Counts from Transactional Forums?

One of the reasons we're thinking of limiting post count to discussion type forums only is it's incredibly hard to moderate posts that only post "interested." You may not expect it, but more often than not newbie users who are looking for samples, freebies, or more information will just go through the marketplace and post tons of "interested" posts on everything they think is interesting. Their intentions aren't to spam, but because it's virtually impossible to differentiate sometimes, these newbies get warnings and/or bans without meaning to break rules.

"Yea, but they should just read the rules."

Yes, we 100% agree. However, we have so many users posting at once a lot of times it ends up being "monkey see monkey do". So while the Community Team does it's best to try to police these sections, we think it might just be better to turn off post count. This way these sections are no longer attractive to those who are clearly using them for the wrong reasons and accounts that are truly "interested" get what they need.

Won't This Lower My Post Count?

Yes. If we turn off the post count in the transactional forums, and you've posted in them, your post count will be lowered. This will apply to all accounts across the board.

Will Turning Off Post Counts Have Any Other Benefit?

Maybe. I'm still working on a thread for the News & Updates section about the future BHW Experience Program.

As the levels of the Experience Program are being fleshed out, it's clear that one of the tennents is quality threads, posts, and information. Simply posting "interested" one hundred times isn't demonstrating quality anything. So by making sure these sections don't contribute to post counts, the Community Team can now focus on the discussion forums and make sure that what is being written in there is the quality that we're looking for. It means that post count spam will be easier to spot and hopefully those who work their ways up through the experience program are great contributors to BlackHat World.

Discussion of the Topic of Turning off Post Counts in the Marketplace and Other Transactional Forums

At this time, we welcome BlackHat users to weigh into the conversation. Please keep it civil. If your only reason to post is to tell us "I hate this", please just respond to the poll. Any short, non helpful responses that are clearly (and ironically) post count spam will be deleted and you may get a post count spam warning along with the deletion. We're looking for your arguments on why we should go ahead with this and why it might be a bad idea.

 

[INCC]

Definitely need to be removed.

Also, please stop collecting votes on important decisions.

We know the forum has lots of spam accounts; this decision directly affects them, so they obviously come in with their network of alts and vote no, and therefore this poll loses all meaning.

 

[Ben Arthur]

Yes, I think this is a good idea. Removing post counts from transactional forums could make a massive difference by cutting down those low effort "interested" replies and keeping AI generated spam out too.

I'd also suggest doing the same for the Service Reviews & Beta Testers Help Wanted forum. A lot of users just reply "interested" across dozens of threads purely to pad their post count, which kind of defeats the whole purpose of the forum.

 

[indianmojojojo]

Yes I feel it should be removed and i also believe a lot of bots are trying to post on sales thread with

"Am interested, share samples" kind of generic posts to inflate post count

I also believe these accounts are later used to review or mimic real sales activities on certain BSTs to deceive members.

For instance if someone genuinely wanted to get reach on a forum they would offer Beta testing/service test in return for a genuine review that would cost the seller $ as opposed to these bot farms trying to do it at a fraction of a price for subpar BSTs sometimes.

I understand there can be limitations as some accounts could genuinely be legit but may get flagged down as a collateral damage.

This is not a complain. Just a suggestion.

 

[Vycakiw]

is this new rule going to allow me to post a thread in hire a freelancers without having to grind weeks to achieve 15 posts?
if yes then I agree and I believe it's a good decision and will bring more clients to the forum
thank you

 

[PetraAnn]

Definitely need to be removed.

Also, please stop collecting votes on important decisions.

We know the forum has lots of spam accounts; this decision directly affects them, so they obviously come in with their network of alts and vote no, and therefore this poll loses all meaning.

We're not making any decisions based on an anyonymous poll. It's simply a data point.

is this new rule going to allow me to post a thread in hire a freelancers without having to grind weeks to achieve 15 posts?
if yes then I agree and I believe it's a good decision and will bring more clients to the forum
thank you

Well, that was quick. This is about removing the ability to gain post counts from these sections. Not removing the required count to post in them. Sadly, you'll have to figure out a way to interact with good quality posts still.

 

[Nicks_]

@PetraAnn, after a long year we are back to this topic, and I hope this time something will be implemented for the greater good.

About a year ago, I was advised to reduce the number of posts on WTB / HAF / service review threads for several reasons, such as

Mainly, new users or those who are not serious won't spam the sales threads because there is no post count gain.

This is especially important for sellers, who just reply in WTB / HAF sections (check pm, I have sent detailed and some pre-written replies), and these replies should not count as posts.

Another example: if you look at any sales thread, you'll see sellers posting comments like "available to take orders" or "service available," which also count as posts. This should not be the case. adding some additional thing which needful to reduce this as I have also previously suggested adding a Bump option on sales threads so sellers wouldn’t need to comment at all.

Since the forum requires a 15+ post count for new users to send messages, many try to artificially increase their post count by going to every other sales thread and commenting interest or “I want to buy.”

There are many other issues you might already be aware of.
In my opinion, +1 to implementing this change on the forum.

 

[indianmojojojo]

Another example: if you look at any sales thread, you'll see sellers posting comments like "available to take orders" or "service available," which also count as posts. This should not be the case. adding some additional thing which needful to reduce this as I have also previously suggested adding a Bump option on sales threads so sellers wouldn’t need to comment at all.

+1
Auto bump option for an additional fee(purchase credits for 200 bumps for example)

The seller can choose a bump interval(24-48-72-96 hours) and the posts bump automatically. That way the OP or the important replies don't get burried in "Taking more orders/this is a bump" type posts

 

[Vycakiw]

Well, that was quick. This is about removing the ability to gain post counts from these sections. Not removing the required count to post in them. Sadly, you'll have to figure out a way to interact with good quality posts still.

why do I need to spend a week to "contribute" before I can hire a freelancer?
you are encouraging me to spam to gain 15 posts
is this really benefiting the forum?

you should make a pool about that and let the community decide

 

[Starblazer]

Definitely need to be removed.

Also, please stop collecting votes on important decisions.

We know the forum has lots of spam accounts; this decision directly affects them, so they obviously come in with their network of alts and vote no, and therefore this poll loses all meaning.

Mods can investigate accounts that don't want this feature.

 

[SettingSun77]

Mods can investigate accounts that don't want this feature.

Yeah, we're not concerned about mysterious accounts stuffing the ballot box here, those are easily identified. But as this is a significant change to post count eligibility, we felt it needed to be discussed and voted on by the community.

 

[PetraAnn]

I'd just like to note that @Vycakiw was not banned due to their thoughts on the matter of this thread. If we banned everyone who disagreed with us, I'm certain there would be lots more bans going on. ;-D

 

[CodeMason]

Definitely yes. That will reduce a lot of spam and bot users, especially those targeting the marketplace because it’s easy to grow forum posts count.

 

[Salamouna]

That's a good idea for the Marketplace section, but I don't think the spammers who post in the Want to Buy and Hire a Freelancer sections are trying to increase their post count. Most of them just want to scam people. I suggest applying it to all sections and seeing whether those spammers disappear. I'm in favor of it, but I also suggest regularly checking how it affects the forum and whether the impact is positive.

I suggest to add also the freebies section

 

[NirvanaWolf]

Yes yes yes. Should've done this long back. Thanks for bringing this up and hope this gets approved internally.

+1
Auto bump option for an additional fee(purchase credits for 200 bumps for example)

The seller can choose a bump interval(24-48-72-96 hours) and the posts bump automatically. That way the OP or the important replies don't get burried in "Taking more orders/this is a bump" type posts

That will only result in people hiring others for a cheaper cost to create accounts and bump their sales threads.

 

[BlogPro]

Oh absolutely. The forum is riddled with bots messaging asking for samples or reviews with a two word "Send Sample" and it's quite obvious they're padding post counts.

Also, I have myself been thinking of the bump button that @Nicks_ and @indianmojojojo suggested.

Everything else remains the same as it now, just that the 24 hour bump post now translates to being a button instead.

This will be tremendously complementary for the new no-contact info rules in bump posts. And potential clients won't land on page 20 of a thread and then have to wade back to the first page to find their contact info. All they'll see is the actual sales copy + reviews/queries posted by others + any updates, elaboration or clarification posted by OP.

 

[LilMosey]

Big +1
The sooner this is implemented, the better.

It helps nobody except accounts that repeatedly try to game the forum by taking this “unseen” shortcut to reach Jr.VIP membership or unlock PMs at 15.

If this is implemented, it will also expose sellers that abused the "Samples please" method to get to 100 Posts, not to mention that probably thousands of Farm accounts will become unusable because they'll have to "work" to get to 100 posts again.

You basically kill two birds with one stone by implementing this.

 

[Rufai]

I think it should be restricted to these sub forums only as I think those are usually overlooked and spammers take advantage of them to increase their post counts.

• Marketplace threads
• Want to Buy
• Hire a Freelancer

 

[Proxellor]

i think it’s a good change overall, but it may just move the spam somewhere else… if newbies can’t build post count in marketplace/WTB etc, some will probably start making pointless threads or low effort replies in discussion sections instead. good idea imo, just think it will create a different moderation problem too

 

[SettingSun77]

i think it’s a good change overall, but it may just move the spam somewhere else… if newbies can’t build post count in marketplace/WTB etc, some will probably start making pointless threads or low effort replies in discussion sections instead. good idea imo, just think it will create a different moderation problem too

We have discussed this possibility / probability. However, we've concluded that the move of spam patterns to other sections will make them easier to identify and eliminate.