J0kerz
Supreme Member
- Nov 2, 2009
- 1,441
- 445
By the way, Matt said that Google Analytic will NOT have any effect on Ranking.
Video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLmO1GE4GvI
Video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLmO1GE4GvI
The google dance - will you survive ...
- Thread starter iceinthebox
- Start date
iceinthebox
Newbie
- Jul 28, 2010
- 48
- 7
The reason for why we know that traffic effects ranking, is that we are in a small country, and in the case when we make a website, in foreign language (with keywords etc that no one is using in this country) our site ranks very quickly to the top in that country ONLY BECAUSE of the visits of our developers. Only our visits to the site can explain how quickly our keywords rank quickly in our country. So what Google seems to notice is that relative visits to this site are suddenly high, and thereby giving the site credibility in this country for keywords on that site.
So it looks like Google seems to look at relational visits, and determines that this site is TOP VISITED for this niche in that country and ranks it hig for relevant keywords, while it was not showing up on Google at all in other countries. And lets get the fact straight that the site we are talking about is hosted in US, and has a dot com ending so Google HAS NO REASON to top rank it in our country, if it were not for the VISITS from our selves !!!
Best of all, this just simply makes TOTAL SENSE !! Google should look at visits to determine if site is interesting or not. Only having backlinks, doesn't give the same effect as Google will see few visits and notice that things are not quite normal although it gives the site benefits of doubt and puts it in Google dance.
Strange thing is that Bing and Yahoo don't seem to work same way. We rank high there very quickly for our keywords which of course the site should be doing as it is much more relevant than many of the sites showing up on Google .....
What does this tell us:
1) If your site has few visits, try in one way or another to build quality visits before or at same time when you do backlinking and I am 100% sure that the effect will be much greater.
2) Within a few weeks we are sure we will be seeing software here for sale that creates "real" visits both through search and directly to sites, to support backlinking campaigns taking advantage of the fact that GOOGLE does in FACT take account for visits when giving credibility and position in engines to sites.
Each Like or Share by visiting facebook users is worth ALOT to get your site known, and therefor we of course recommend the iLikeViral plugin when you start to get visits, so that you may increase them even more (available as JS for normal sites and as WP plugin). There is a big BHW discount for this item if users do /BHW in back of domain name.
So it looks like Google seems to look at relational visits, and determines that this site is TOP VISITED for this niche in that country and ranks it hig for relevant keywords, while it was not showing up on Google at all in other countries. And lets get the fact straight that the site we are talking about is hosted in US, and has a dot com ending so Google HAS NO REASON to top rank it in our country, if it were not for the VISITS from our selves !!!
Best of all, this just simply makes TOTAL SENSE !! Google should look at visits to determine if site is interesting or not. Only having backlinks, doesn't give the same effect as Google will see few visits and notice that things are not quite normal although it gives the site benefits of doubt and puts it in Google dance.
Strange thing is that Bing and Yahoo don't seem to work same way. We rank high there very quickly for our keywords which of course the site should be doing as it is much more relevant than many of the sites showing up on Google .....
What does this tell us:
1) If your site has few visits, try in one way or another to build quality visits before or at same time when you do backlinking and I am 100% sure that the effect will be much greater.
2) Within a few weeks we are sure we will be seeing software here for sale that creates "real" visits both through search and directly to sites, to support backlinking campaigns taking advantage of the fact that GOOGLE does in FACT take account for visits when giving credibility and position in engines to sites.
Each Like or Share by visiting facebook users is worth ALOT to get your site known, and therefor we of course recommend the iLikeViral plugin when you start to get visits, so that you may increase them even more (available as JS for normal sites and as WP plugin). There is a big BHW discount for this item if users do /BHW in back of domain name.
volund
Supreme Member
- Jan 24, 2010
- 1,226
- 751
Sorry dude but you are way off base here. It is not unusual for a site to be ranked when it is first created, especially for low competition keywords.
Google has no way of knowing how many people visit your site. Unless you install analytics on your site there is absolutely no way for them to get this info. The only traffic they can track on a site without analytics is the traffic that comes from Google search, in a lot of cases this is a small percentage of a sites traffic.
For Google to use traffic as part of their algorithm they would need to be able to track if for the majority of the websites they rank and this is not something they can do. How is Google going to find out about all those visitors that come from facebook? There is no way for them to do so. Using a metric that they can only apply to a small percentage of the sites in existence would be stupid and Google is anything but stupid.
Google has no way of knowing how many people visit your site. Unless you install analytics on your site there is absolutely no way for them to get this info. The only traffic they can track on a site without analytics is the traffic that comes from Google search, in a lot of cases this is a small percentage of a sites traffic.
For Google to use traffic as part of their algorithm they would need to be able to track if for the majority of the websites they rank and this is not something they can do. How is Google going to find out about all those visitors that come from facebook? There is no way for them to do so. Using a metric that they can only apply to a small percentage of the sites in existence would be stupid and Google is anything but stupid.
iceinthebox
Newbie
- Jul 28, 2010
- 48
- 7
But for the sites, it knows the traffic for (those using analytics), why on earth wouldn't they use it for their benefit to make the search better ?
D
Deleted member 21250
Guest
Google dance and sandbox are real. Am experiencing both first hand now. First dance, then sandbox. Usually goes in that order.
iceinthebox
Newbie
- Jul 28, 2010
- 48
- 7
I also forgot to mention, WHY would it rank it high in a country where there are high relative visits to the site, but make the site invisible elsewhere ? That surely means it is taking traffic into account .... it is all it has !
iceinthebox
Newbie
- Jul 28, 2010
- 48
- 7
Absolutely, and my theory is that if you get real traffic to follow, would be good to get it through the search engine, then your site would most likley do much better and quicker !
Other google TLDs are easier to rank, you should know this.
iceinthebox
Newbie
- Jul 28, 2010
- 48
- 7
Site not optimized, site not advertised, many other sites with similar keywords, and site is not in local langague, and servers in another country ....
Nothing can explain the ranking besides that there is some traffic check by Google, either through search (testing by us) or through Google analytics.
It also makes perfect sense that Google uses all info it has, why shouldn't it ??
MisterGemini
Senior Member
- May 25, 2010
- 1,112
- 727
Sigh... here goes... time to bring some light to this darksome world.
While I appreciate your attempt at unraveling the big mystery that most people regard Google as, after you have learned a thing or two about networks, how the Internet works, and search engines, you might have come to very different conclusions to your observations.
Now that you have explained why you think you discovered some magical formula, I am here to give you the facts on why your site is raking in your little country. It's called Registrar data. It is the data that Google does in fact use to determine where a site should be ranked as far as their country rankings are concerned.. along with your about page, contact page, telephone numbers listed, physical address listed within your site. Google uses multiple factors to help them gain understanding of your organization/company geo position and who will find your data useful. Once they get these signals, they then will have them appear in their geo targeted serps vs. the US one. This is actually why you saw your sites appearing in your country serps.
Hosting location is a factor, but it happens to be the VERY LAST factor that google will take into account ONLY IF the other signals are not available. However, your Registrar data is always available. Even when you use those pretty privacy protection options, thats just privacy from public view, not from registrars themselves, which google is btw.
This means that hosting your site within the same geo-positioning (assuming your type of business/site is not geo-specific to a specific city/state) you're targeting has very little impact. This is after all the 'Inter'Net .. not a freaken BBS. As for the Analytic stuff. My sites will and have always remained Google Analytics free. My site data belongs to me, and I get much more accurate and helpful data with my own analytics instead of having google look up my skirt and telling me I need a a long dong adwords campaigned shoved up my keester with every login and every click in Analytics.
It was never mentioned here, but links coming to a site from country TLDs often has an impact in where your site will appear in country serps as well. If your sites are made with the 'designed by "My company"' thing in the bottom linking to your site, which is also in the same country, you are again contributing to this effect.
This whole business of traffic and links etc, like I said, you need to know more about networks before coming up with theories based on observations. What you put out is right up there with determining that a car is moved by the guy pushing his foot on the peddle. Not knowing its the engine that is doing the work. Someone knowing nothing about cars from the 1800s might think the same thing. Likewise, knowing nothing about search engines, observations can be dangerously misleading.
Mister Gemini
TheHockeyGod
Newbie
- Aug 11, 2009
- 28
- 8
It was much too long and complicated to give a full answer here, but I have responded as to the several reasons why this doesn't make sense:
http://www.dotcult.com/does-google-analytics-affect-seo
http://www.dotcult.com/does-google-analytics-affect-seo
iceinthebox
Newbie
- Jul 28, 2010
- 48
- 7
My gut tells me that getting real visitors, to support the backlinks is the best way. To feed that info to Google you would need analytics setup when traffic has started so they know. Also traffic through search, especially searching your site (going through search pages) and then going to you should help.
I am 100% confident that we will soon see software that will help automate the process of doing real traffic, mix of direct and through search .....
iceinthebox
Newbie
- Jul 28, 2010
- 48
- 7
Sigh... here goes... time to bring some light to this darksome world.
While I appreciate your attempt at unraveling the big mystery that most people regard Google as, after you have learned a thing or two about networks, how the Internet works, and search engines, you might have come to very different conclusions to your observations.
Now that you have explained why you think you discovered some magical formula, I am here to give you the facts on why your site is raking in your little country. It's called Registrar data. It is the data that Google does in fact use to determine where a site should be ranked as far as their country rankings are concerned.. along with your about page, contact page, telephone numbers listed, physical address listed within your site. Google uses multiple factors to help them gain understanding of your organization/company geo position and who will find your data useful. Once they get these signals, they then will have them appear in their geo targeted serps vs. the US one. This is actually why you saw your sites appearing in your country serps.
Hosting location is a factor, but it happens to be the VERY LAST factor that google will take into account ONLY IF the other signals are not available. However, your Registrar data is always available. Even when you use those pretty privacy protection options, thats just privacy from public view, not from registrars themselves, which google is btw.
As for the Analytic stuff. My sites will and have always remained Google Analytics free. My site data belongs to me, and I get much more accurate and helpful data with my own analytics instead of having google look up my skirt and telling me I need a a long dong adwords campaigned shoved up my keester with every login and every click in Analytics.
It was never mentioned here, but links coming to a site from country TLDs often has an impact in where your site will appear in country serps as well. If your sites are made with the 'designed by "My company"' thing in the bottom linking to your site, which is also in the same country, you are again contributing to this effect.
This whole business of traffic and links etc, like I said, you need to know more about networks before coming up with theories based on observations. What you put out is right up there with determining that a car is moved by the guy pushing his foot on the peddle. Not knowing its the engine that is doing the work. Someone knowing nothing about cars from the 1800s might think the same thing. Likewise, knowing nothing about search engines, observations can be dangerously misleading.
Mister Gemini
Domain registration info is truly a good point here, but it still does not make much sense for Google to give that a very big effect, because so many businesses are international and in google webmaster setup, you can even specify US as the target market, so why should that info rank you high in your country, where you may not even want to do business.
I though believe your point is very valid (and could be true), BUT if Google is strongly taking that into effect, rather then using traffic knowledge then my opinion of the Google SE has gone strongly lower.
boiler
Senior Member
- Apr 27, 2009
- 904
- 205
Sigh... here goes... time to bring some light to this darksome world.
While I appreciate your attempt at unraveling the big mystery that most people regard Google as, after you have learned a thing or two about networks, how the Internet works, and search engines, you might have come to very different conclusions to your observations.
Now that you have explained why you think you discovered some magical formula, I am here to give you the facts on why your site is raking in your little country. It's called Registrar data. It is the data that Google does in fact use to determine where a site should be ranked as far as their country rankings are concerned.. along with your about page, contact page, telephone numbers listed, physical address listed within your site. Google uses multiple factors to help them gain understanding of your organization/company geo position and who will find your data useful. Once they get these signals, they then will have them appear in their geo targeted serps vs. the US one. This is actually why you saw your sites appearing in your country serps.
Hosting location is a factor, but it happens to be the VERY LAST factor that google will take into account ONLY IF the other signals are not available. However, your Registrar data is always available. Even when you use those pretty privacy protection options, thats just privacy from public view, not from registrars themselves, which google is btw.
As for the Analytic stuff. My sites will and have always remained Google Analytics free. My site data belongs to me, and I get much more accurate and helpful data with my own analytics instead of having google look up my skirt and telling me I need a a long dong adwords campaigned shoved up my keester with every login and every click in Analytics.
It was never mentioned here, but links coming to a site from country TLDs often has an impact in where your site will appear in country serps as well. If your sites are made with the 'designed by "My company"' thing in the bottom linking to your site, which is also in the same country, you are again contributing to this effect.
This whole business of traffic and links etc, like I said, you need to know more about networks before coming up with theories based on observations. What you put out is right up there with determining that a car is moved by the guy pushing his foot on the peddle. Not knowing its the engine that is doing the work. Someone knowing nothing about cars from the 1800s might think the same thing. Likewise, knowing nothing about search engines, observations can be dangerously misleading.
Mister Gemini
I'm quite agree with you mistergemini but you should add one more factor which is being used by google which is language being used on the site also the backlinks
for example if my site was in Indonesian language then backlinks come from Indonesian website will take more quality specially for the geo targeted SEO
just my 2c
Micallef
Supreme Member
- Apr 29, 2009
- 1,345
- 1,231
I can't believe nobody else has picked up on this.
Is it true that you were a Google quality rater for over a year?
If so, you've got a lot to offer this forum.
What I most want to know about is the circumstances that lead to manual review occurring. I know the threshold must be quite high (or the standards quite lax) because I consistently rank pretty spammy pages, and way back in the past I got lucky frequently, while using obvious and blundering tactics which should have prompted a manual review. Clearly this did not happen.
Can you shed any light?
nemsis
Junior Member
- Sep 27, 2009
- 197
- 294
Absolutely not, they don't have access to private registar data, the maximum they can get is your public customer id (and they use this id to track & de-index all your sites if you do something really wrong for example). They don't use phone numbers or adresses to locate your site, the main factor to rank your site in a specific country is the language (obvious..) and your backlinks (if you receive a lot of backlinks from german regional tlds for example (.de), you'll rank higher in germany) and your tld (use a local tld to rank better for local markets..)
I was also shocked lol, did you really work in the search quality team TheHockeyGod ? If yes, I have like 2500 questions to ask..
Also, keep in mind that the Google Dance kicks in whenever "new" backlinks are detected. And not all your backlinks are going to be indexed at the same time, even if they were created on the same day. So if you've been doing some serious backlinking, the Google Dance is going to be ebbing and flowing for quite some time before finally settling.