JCI vs Adspect

erentheyeagar

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Hey guys I'm looking for a good cloaker platform to post camps on FB ads and in the future Google ads
From what I know there's 2 cloakers that wrok: JCI & Adspect

Please share your toughts about those 2 and if you got even better alternative.
Thanks :)
 
There is a rumour that Facebook is suing JCI hence they allegedly removed the explicit option of cloaking on fb. As currently I don't have an account with them I can't confirm. I am telling you that because JCI has a better reputation than adspect IMO.
 
There is a rumour that Facebook is suing JCI hence they allegedly removed the explicit option of cloaking on fb. As currently I don't have an account with them I can't confirm. I am telling you that because JCI has a better reputation than adspect IMO.
I have an account with JCI and can confirm they have removed the Facebook option from their list as of now. This will be exciting to see!
 
There is a rumour that Facebook is suing JCI hence they allegedly removed the explicit option of cloaking on fb. As currently I don't have an account with them I can't confirm. I am telling you that because JCI has a better reputation than adspect IMO.
False. You are regurgitating old news about FB suing another cloaked for COVID crime's a few years. JCI hasn’t had a FB option since then as a safeguard.
 
False. You are regurgitating old news about FB suing another cloaked for COVID crime's a few years. JCI hasn’t had a FB option since then as a safeguard.
First of all, I said there is a rumour, which might have been true or not. Secondly, I guess you are regurgitating a rude language.

I explained several times why these mass cloakers are at a certain point weak, but I will repeat it for your knowledge:
1. ML filtering cannot be applied without javascript. But when client code gets loaded the target domain is already busted. Sending the request data itlelf via curl, defends the purpose of js, as there is no way to capture js data in php. Even from node.js the data is visible on client.
2. Being public, the logic of the system is easily analyzed by any entity interested in it.
3. Therefore some claims about the overall features are false by definition.

These are only 3 brief points for which I am not impressed with JCI. But in spite of that I keep recommending JCI, because it does a good job.
 
There is a rumour that Facebook is suing JCI hence they allegedly removed the explicit option of cloaking on fb. As currently I don't have an account with them I can't confirm. I am telling you that because JCI has a better reputation than adspect IMO.
I have had lots of success with jci. I currently have active facebook campaigns running for months with no issue.
 
False. You are regurgitating old news about FB suing another cloaked for COVID crime's a few years. JCI hasn’t had a FB option since then as a safeguard.
yes old news , if im not wrong it was lead cloak during covid
 
Adspect is a bit difficult for novices. This was the first one I used.
 
First of all, I said there is a rumour, which might have been true or not. Secondly, I guess you are regurgitating a rude language.

I explained several times why these mass cloakers are at a certain point weak, but I will repeat it for your knowledge:
1. ML filtering cannot be applied without javascript. But when client code gets loaded the target domain is already busted. Sending the request data itlelf via curl, defends the purpose of js, as there is no way to capture js data in php. Even from node.js the data is visible on client.
2. Being public, the logic of the system is easily analyzed by any entity interested in it.
3. Therefore some claims about the overall features are false by definition.

These are only 3 brief points for which I am not impressed with JCI. But in spite of that I keep recommending JCI, because it does a good job.
1. I have no idea what you mean by ML filtering. It was never mentioned in this thread.
2. Again I have no idea what you are trying to say. This sounds like AI generated gibberish.
3. What claims about what features?
 
1. I have no idea what you mean by ML filtering. It was never mentioned in this thread.
2. Again I have no idea what you are trying to say. This sounds like AI generated gibberish.
3. What claims about what features?
1. Advanced cloaking service providers offers a sort of machine learning (ML) filtering. I won't get into details of the technology itslef but just mention that in order to use such a filter one needs to analyze user behavior in real time, as mouse moves, scrolling etc. These categories are use as classifiers and the feature predicts if a user agent is or not human. The data may be sent to cloaking provider via an api using most likely ajax. Ajax is in fact javascript and by simply monitoring user behaviour gets uncovered. Client side scripting cannot be captured directly into a server side language, because of several reasons.
2. A simpler filter of js can be put in place without ML, by simply detecting some ja specific acrivity, but - apart a better response time - the downside of disclosing the script is the same as for ML.
3. A good cloaker is a good cloaker, you don't set it for specific cimpany, that's pure marketing. But this doesn't mean any cloaker doesn't need a specific tune up before a specific canpaign, traffic needs to be analyzed and thus tying to isolate the provider's network fingerprint, this is the real set up.

This is the context in which I had the idea of hiding all javascript from bots, in spite of still being able to use it for detection (I know, it sounds silly but is doable).

Instead of conclusion, it's not my fault if I provide important hints that some users cannot understand for whatever reason.

//edit: I had forgotten: there is not such thing as infailible cloaking technique, the most powerfull feature is the use of ML, but that's tricky as well.
 
1. Advanced cloaking service providers offers a sort of machine learning (ML) filtering. I won't get into details of the technology itslef but just mention that in order to use such a filter one needs to analyze user behavior in real time, as mouse moves, scrolling etc. These categories are use as classifiers and the feature predicts if a user agent is or not human. The data may be sent to cloaking provider via an api using most likely ajax. Ajax is in fact javascript and by simply monitoring user behaviour gets uncovered. Client side scripting cannot be captured directly into a server side language, because of several reasons.
2. A simpler filter of js can be put in place without ML, by simply detecting some ja specific acrivity, but - apart a better response time - the downside of disclosing the script is the same as for ML.
3. A good cloaker is a good cloaker, you don't set it for specific cimpany, that's pure marketing. But this doesn't mean any cloaker doesn't need a specific tune up before a specific canpaign, traffic needs to be analyzed and thus tying to isolate the provider's network fingerprint, this is the real set up.

This is the context in which I had the idea of hiding all javascript from bots, in spite of still being able to use it for detection (I know, it sounds silly but is doable).

Instead of conclusion, it's not my fault if I provide important hints that some users cannot understand for whatever reason.

//edit: I had forgotten: there is not such thing as infailible cloaking technique, the most powerfull feature is the use of ML, but that's tricky as well.
thank you for that. all great info.
 
1. Advanced cloaking service providers offers a sort of machine learning (ML) filtering. I won't get into details of the technology itslef but just mention that in order to use such a filter one needs to analyze user behavior in real time, as mouse moves, scrolling etc. These categories are use as classifiers and the feature predicts if a user agent is or not human. The data may be sent to cloaking provider via an api using most likely ajax. Ajax is in fact javascript and by simply monitoring user behaviour gets uncovered. Client side scripting cannot be captured directly into a server side language, because of several reasons.
2. A simpler filter of js can be put in place without ML, by simply detecting some ja specific acrivity, but - apart a better response time - the downside of disclosing the script is the same as for ML.
3. A good cloaker is a good cloaker, you don't set it for specific cimpany, that's pure marketing. But this doesn't mean any cloaker doesn't need a specific tune up before a specific canpaign, traffic needs to be analyzed and thus tying to isolate the provider's network fingerprint, this is the real set up.

This is the context in which I had the idea of hiding all javascript from bots, in spite of still being able to use it for detection (I know, it sounds silly but is doable).

Instead of conclusion, it's not my fault if I provide important hints that some users cannot understand for whatever reason.

//edit: I had forgotten: there is not such thing as infailible cloaking technique, the most powerfull feature is the use of ML, but that's tricky as well.
Hello!

You are wrong about the application of ML, at least as far as our service is concerned. We do use client-side JS to collect in-browser data, but nothing related to the behavior like the scrolling events you mentioned, etc. Those are explicitly beyond the scope of our service, and may come with huge time overhead, causing conversion rate drops.

We collect data about the JS runtime environment of a client's browser, which amounts to hundreds of facts that are then fed to the Bayes classifier that our ML is based on. And that data alone does a wonderful job of detecting new bots. Once such a bot is found, it is blacklisted to make sure that next time it visits it will be barred right away without going through the JS fingerprinting process again.

As for the "JS code gets you busted" claim, it is also false. There's a slight risk with it of course, but the reality is it does not alarm 99% of the bots out there, including the more advanced ones like Google's or Microsoft's. Such bots simply cannot analyze obfuscated JS code in full auto. They may alarm human researches to come and review such code manually, but apparently they don't (and it would be infeasible on such platforms' scale anyway.) So the technique actually does work.

Cheers!
 
Hello!

You are wrong about the application of ML, at least as far as our service is concerned. We do use client-side JS to collect in-browser data, but nothing related to the behavior like the scrolling events you mentioned, etc. Those are explicitly beyond the scope of our service, and may come with huge time overhead, causing conversion rate drops.

We collect data about the JS runtime environment of a client's browser, which amounts to hundreds of facts that are then fed to the Bayes classifier that our ML is based on. And that data alone does a wonderful job of detecting new bots. Once such a bot is found, it is blacklisted to make sure that next time it visits it will be barred right away without going through the JS fingerprinting process again.

As for the "JS code gets you busted" claim, it is also false. There's a slight risk with it of course, but the reality is it does not alarm 99% of the bots out there, including the more advanced ones like Google's or Microsoft's. Such bots simply cannot analyze obfuscated JS code in full auto. They may alarm human researches to come and review such code manually, but apparently they don't (and it would be infeasible on such platforms' scale anyway.) So the technique actually does work.

Cheers!
I won't get into a dispute with you for several reasons, the main one being that once your solution works it is a proof that you are doing a great job.

Regarding the capacity of google in reading obfuscated js I only suggest one test: take that code and put it into a decent LLM (let's say chatgpt) and check if it can be read. If the answer if yes, please find a good reason for which google wouldn't do the same, using the same classifiers you do. In fact, G. is employing ML for cloaking detection for many years.

All the best!
 
I won't get into a dispute with you for several reasons, the main one being that once your solution works it is a proof that you are doing a great job.

Regarding the capacity of google in reading obfuscated js I only suggest one test: take that code and put it into a decent LLM (let's say chatgpt) and check if it can be read. If the answer if yes, please find a good reason for which google wouldn't do the same, using the same classifiers you do. In fact, G. is employing ML for cloaking detection for many years.

All the best!
I am not speaking about the Google's capacity of deobfuscating. I am telling you that we know for a fact that they do not do it, as simple as that, regardless of whether they're capable of doing so or not. Proven by the fact that the JS integration method works well in Google Ads.
 
I am not speaking about the Google's capacity of deobfuscating. I am telling you that we know for a fact that they do not do it, as simple as that, regardless of whether they're capable of doing so or not. Proven by the fact that the JS integration method works well in Google Ads.
thank you for letting us know that JSI works better . i was looking for good cloker
 
thank you for letting us know that JSI works better . i was looking for good cloker
I was not referring to JCI in any way. JCI is attached via its click API under the hood of Adspect's Professional plan as one of 12 competing cloakers.
 
I was not referring to JCI in any way. JCI is attached via its click API under the hood of Adspect's Professional plan as one of 12 competing cloakers.

Adspect has embedded JCI?

I think he was referring to javascript tho not JCI?
 
Adspect has embedded JCI?

I think he was referring to javascript tho not JCI?
That's right, the top plan has 12 competing cloakers attached inside either via their respective click APIs or through entire IP databases obtained/scraped via different ways. JCI is just one of them. Click API checks are done either preemptively for all adjacent IP addresses within /24 IPv4 networks, or post-factum after the initial click for next anticipated clicks. I.e. we also work as a cloaking service aggregator in a sense. All of this is done in addition to our own databases and filters.
 
That's right, the top plan has 12 competing cloakers attached inside either via their respective click APIs or through entire IP databases obtained/scraped via different ways. JCI is just one of them. Click API checks are done either preemptively for all adjacent IP addresses within /24 IPv4 networks, or post-factum after the initial click for next anticipated clicks. I.e. we also work as a cloaking service aggregator in a sense. All of this is done in addition to our own databases and filters.
Awesome stuff mate
 
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