Clickbank vendors stealing?
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small_town_boy
BANNED
- Aug 14, 2008
- 763
- 218
Yes, CB does this as all other affiliate companies. Not news to me really.
Super_Vendor
Junior Member
- Dec 29, 2009
- 133
- 17
I am a vendor of multiple products and I dont think clickbank shaves any sales. I think this idea comes from affiliates who can't make sales and need an excuse. I am sorry but this is the truth.
I guess that one particular vendor was stealing commissions by using his own affiliate link but I dont think this is very common. I never have done it and wouldn't do it. I've ran scripts to automatically give any sales that are directly from me to a random affiliate promoting my product.
This will help me because my gravity will increase, but mostly, the more sales my affiliates get the more they will continue to promote me, so it is a much better idea to do this rather than try to steal commissions.
Bottom line - Find a good vendor and stop blaming clickbank for "shaving sales"
I guess that one particular vendor was stealing commissions by using his own affiliate link but I dont think this is very common. I never have done it and wouldn't do it. I've ran scripts to automatically give any sales that are directly from me to a random affiliate promoting my product.
This will help me because my gravity will increase, but mostly, the more sales my affiliates get the more they will continue to promote me, so it is a much better idea to do this rather than try to steal commissions.
Bottom line - Find a good vendor and stop blaming clickbank for "shaving sales"
eNdl
BANNED
- Jul 7, 2007
- 305
- 118
Dude, you can be in denial all you want. Clickbank has serious tracking issues. One day I had over 400 hoplinks in a single day for a product I didn't even promote.
Super_Vendor
Junior Member
- Dec 29, 2009
- 133
- 17
Well then they have a tracking problem, they are not shaving your sales.... dude.
mikie46
Supreme Member
- Aug 6, 2008
- 1,454
- 1,122
Thats bullshit dude. Its is not the job of the affiliate to sell it, its the vendors job. The affiliates does a very good job pushing the customer to the sales page. It is the vendors job to sell it. We are just the inbetween and a vehicle to get the customer to the other side. If affiliates are not making sales either CB is shaving or the vendors pages is shit!
Does everyone notice how the vendors are sticking up for clickcrap?
tacopalypse
Senior Member
- Nov 30, 2009
- 935
- 2,533
here's something you can do for a little more certainty...
when you have someone click through your hoplink, have them go to the paypal page, and look at the bottom of the page. if it tracked correctly, you should see "affiliate = [your id]" right at the bottom of the page.
if it says your affiliate id, and you buy the product, and it doesn't record a sale, then something's fucked up. however if it doesn't say your id, then that means your affiliate cookie wasn't saved properly somewhere beforehand.
when you have someone click through your hoplink, have them go to the paypal page, and look at the bottom of the page. if it tracked correctly, you should see "affiliate = [your id]" right at the bottom of the page.
if it says your affiliate id, and you buy the product, and it doesn't record a sale, then something's fucked up. however if it doesn't say your id, then that means your affiliate cookie wasn't saved properly somewhere beforehand.
Super_Vendor
Junior Member
- Dec 29, 2009
- 133
- 17
You're an idiot. If clickbank was shaving sales it would affect the vendor just as much as the affiliate.
jdanswers
Regular Member
- Oct 9, 2009
- 257
- 238
Yep, tacopalypse, you beat me to this advice. I always run through the sales procedure to check for my id at the bottom. I found a few of these where "none" appeared. I did not promote their product.
I might add some other things I watch for:
1. An opt-in. I never promote a product with an opt-in alternative. Never!
2. A phone number to order. I never promote these either.
3. Pay by personal check. There are a few of these idiots. Avoid these.
4. As mentioned: The sample chapter scam. Avoid these too.
If you are really paranoid, buy the product yourself (not through your affiliate link), check your CB stats for the sale/commission, you have 56 days to get a refund. If no sale/commission shows, get the refund, dump the product and/or replace it with a similar product.
CB is like any network. It has tech problems (tracking) and crooks who will rip you off.
JDanswers
This is why I've been pushing CB to put a coupon code or some other feature in - you'll notice a lot of sites doing the onunload popup with a link to a separate "product", which is actually just the current book/software but at a discounted price (i.e., not the one the affiliate's hoplink is registered for). You can of course see why the vendor wants to do this - a lot of sales are potentially saved this way. Unfortunately, it screws the affiliate out of all of the work they've done. CB isn't shaving - the vendor is (per se, it might not even be intentional).
Simple solution: don't promote products where vendors use this tactic. As a vendor, I'd really like to give the exiting/nonpurchasing visitor a discount (i.e., $5 off) since it will benefit me AND the affiliate who sent the customer, but I can't do it without screwing the affiliate. An affiliate is my best asset - screwing them over is the last thing I want to do.
It's sad, but CB needs to figure this out eventually and come up with a plan (i.e., coupon codes). (If you're looking for a product to promote that doesn't engage in this kind of tactic, check my recent posts. I just released one.)
Simple solution: don't promote products where vendors use this tactic. As a vendor, I'd really like to give the exiting/nonpurchasing visitor a discount (i.e., $5 off) since it will benefit me AND the affiliate who sent the customer, but I can't do it without screwing the affiliate. An affiliate is my best asset - screwing them over is the last thing I want to do.
It's sad, but CB needs to figure this out eventually and come up with a plan (i.e., coupon codes). (If you're looking for a product to promote that doesn't engage in this kind of tactic, check my recent posts. I just released one.)
hiding_whitehat
Junior Member
- Jan 3, 2009
- 145
- 114
I have two solutions to this, and they're both iffy at best.
1) host a local copy of the salespage, and have the purchase links go DIRECTLY to the purchase page with your aff id. This way you can also have optins go to YOUR autoresponder.
2) do a slightly blackhat tactic that involves an image and your specific hoplink. can't talk about that here though.
1) host a local copy of the salespage, and have the purchase links go DIRECTLY to the purchase page with your aff id. This way you can also have optins go to YOUR autoresponder.
2) do a slightly blackhat tactic that involves an image and your specific hoplink. can't talk about that here though.
turbopugsleylx
Elite Member
- Jun 6, 2008
- 3,424
- 988
I dont see why option one would be iffy...arent u allowed to do that?
I really dont see this is clickbank's fault, but there are MANY reasons why this can happen:
1) Vendors indeed using dirty tricks like opt-ins and circumventing affiliates
2) AFFILIATES doing cookie stuffing, using frames or other weird methods.
If they use frames and cookie stuffing it throws clickbank tracking off, and really the only SOLID method to make sure they track right is using a plain normal hoplink URL.
3) Because i have some products dealing with clickbank i know a little about it, for example i KNOW that some affiliates often link to "fake" vendors pages because they think its the original vendor page - BUT IT IS NOT.
They link to such a "fake" vendor page, but on the page another affiliate is simply using his ID and overwriting all cookies. Then the fake vendor redirects to the real site with HIS affiliate id.
This is why you have to make sure you get your hoplinks from clickbank marketplace and make really sure its the original vendor page, and not some intermediary rogue page pretending to be the vendor.
4) Then there are browser security settings, blocked cookies and antivirus programs.
I have to say that in my work with clickbank related stuff i am ALWAYS testing hoplinks, and i have personally NEVER (!) seen that i go to the clickbank checkout and it says [affiliate=none]! This with kaspersky anti virus running, IE8 and the latest FireFox at DEFAULT security settings.
1) Vendors indeed using dirty tricks like opt-ins and circumventing affiliates
2) AFFILIATES doing cookie stuffing, using frames or other weird methods.
If they use frames and cookie stuffing it throws clickbank tracking off, and really the only SOLID method to make sure they track right is using a plain normal hoplink URL.
3) Because i have some products dealing with clickbank i know a little about it, for example i KNOW that some affiliates often link to "fake" vendors pages because they think its the original vendor page - BUT IT IS NOT.
They link to such a "fake" vendor page, but on the page another affiliate is simply using his ID and overwriting all cookies. Then the fake vendor redirects to the real site with HIS affiliate id.
This is why you have to make sure you get your hoplinks from clickbank marketplace and make really sure its the original vendor page, and not some intermediary rogue page pretending to be the vendor.
4) Then there are browser security settings, blocked cookies and antivirus programs.
I have to say that in my work with clickbank related stuff i am ALWAYS testing hoplinks, and i have personally NEVER (!) seen that i go to the clickbank checkout and it says [affiliate=none]! This with kaspersky anti virus running, IE8 and the latest FireFox at DEFAULT security settings.
businessminder
BANNED
- Oct 22, 2009
- 235
- 370
I don't think ClickBank themselves are skimming from the affiliates, it's the publishers themselves are doing shady things to remove/replace affiliate ids.
ClickBank is and has been a good 3rd party service provider to handle transactions.
With that said though, CB should do anything possible to investigate into this issue to avoid possible publishers cheating off their own affiliates like that. I do think that they have done a very good job otherwise they won't become what they are right now. Do provide feedbacks to them though.
Also agree with @blackhaze. There are many reasons as to why such thing would happen. I'd like to add one more though. There could be viruses or spywares...etc. that mess up with the affiliate id passing correctly.
As originally said by the OP the affiliate ID changed to something else. Are you sure that's the publisher's ID? or could it be another affiliate's ID who did something shady (worms, viruses, spywares) to do something like that? I've seen that happening.
My 2c
ClickBank is and has been a good 3rd party service provider to handle transactions.
With that said though, CB should do anything possible to investigate into this issue to avoid possible publishers cheating off their own affiliates like that. I do think that they have done a very good job otherwise they won't become what they are right now. Do provide feedbacks to them though.
Also agree with @blackhaze. There are many reasons as to why such thing would happen. I'd like to add one more though. There could be viruses or spywares...etc. that mess up with the affiliate id passing correctly.
As originally said by the OP the affiliate ID changed to something else. Are you sure that's the publisher's ID? or could it be another affiliate's ID who did something shady (worms, viruses, spywares) to do something like that? I've seen that happening.
My 2c
I am also a CB Vendor, and I don't think CB shaves...but they do sometimes have tracking issues.
In regards to the shady vendor techniques...Yes, some vendors are shady and cheat the affiliates by replacing links in emails, etc...but most of them are honest. It is dumb to screw affiliates. If you keep affiliates happy, they will keep making you sales.
I happen to use opt-ins on my product pages...but the emails that go out ONLY have links to the product homepage (with no affiliate id) which leaves the cookie in place from the affiliate. My emails help the affiliate make the sale down the road!
As an affiliate, you shouldn't just AVOID any vendor that uses optins...simply check them out and ask them questions.
I give my affiliates the option of turning off the optin box...but I encourage them to leave it and let me keep trying to get the sale for them.
In regards to the shady vendor techniques...Yes, some vendors are shady and cheat the affiliates by replacing links in emails, etc...but most of them are honest. It is dumb to screw affiliates. If you keep affiliates happy, they will keep making you sales.
I happen to use opt-ins on my product pages...but the emails that go out ONLY have links to the product homepage (with no affiliate id) which leaves the cookie in place from the affiliate. My emails help the affiliate make the sale down the road!
As an affiliate, you shouldn't just AVOID any vendor that uses optins...simply check them out and ask them questions.
I give my affiliates the option of turning off the optin box...but I encourage them to leave it and let me keep trying to get the sale for them.
gonzomcribbinz
Regular Member
- Sep 16, 2008
- 356
- 622
^ Exactly. I'm tired of having to defend the opt-in process from the immense amount of misinformation.
It only helps sales.
If you're an affiliate pushing traffic to an offer, then you should already be opted into the vendor's list so you can see front-to-back what he/she is doing anyway. Check those links in the emails (and everywhere else). Click all the way through. If there's shady shit going on, notify CB and take your traffic somewhere else. But if there's not, and the vendor is going out of his way to help close the sale for you with constant contact with the leads you sent but didn't immediately convert, then odds are, you may have found a winner.
risingphoenix
Newbie
- Nov 3, 2009
- 35
- 1
Yeah that vendor is clearly a crook. I say just let it go and promote something else. If clickbank support is as bad as you say, then it's probably not worth the time seeking retribution.
Please let me respond to penaakul. It's so easy to accuse when the other person doesn't realize they need to defend themselves. This post was just pointed out to me today.
Vampire? Good grief.
I am liebe17 and I'd like to address the concerns mentioned above. I've got hundreds of affiliates. You don't get to be a best seller a clickbank by cheating people.
If you think it's that easy, go ahead and try. It's much easier to make money helping affiliates.
I'm also an affiliate of other products and I know this about website visitors.
No one "owns" them, you only rent a visitor.
Even though Clickbank puts a tracking cookie on their computer (assuming that they visitor doesn?t have cookies blocked on their computer), they can still find the sales page through another affiliate Clickbank affiliate besides you.
Consider this example.
I send a Visitor to a sales page --------> they don't buy the product
Same visitor sees a Google Ad 1 week later, from another affiliate,
clicks on the ad ------------------> doesn't buy the product again.
Same visitor visits another affiliate's promotion webpage, clicks through
to my sales page --------------> visitor does by the product.
Even though ?my? visitor was introduced to the product by me, I won?t get paid and I don?t expect to. The visitor just didn?t buy when I sent them there.
No one stole my visitor, another vendor just happened to make the offer when they were ready to buy.
There is no way I can make sure the first affiliate gets credit for a sale. That's up to Clickbank and how they track.
Finally, I don?t want you or any vendor to feel they?re getting ripped off.
If you feel you?re being ripped off, cheated in any way, don?t just tell me ? report me or any Vendor to clickbank.
Whether those in the forums think so or not, clickbank takes that stuff really seriously and they?ll do an investigation.
If you find a problem, a link that is incorrect or anything, just phone me. I give my phone number to my affiliates. Just then tell me where the problem is and I?ll have my staff fix it.
Because it's really easy to make a post in a Forum and make all kinds of accusations without having them challenged.
The truth is that sometimes we do test different offer pages to improve conversions and sometimes links do get mixed up. But that?s not because we?re ?vampires? Monsters or Mobsters. It?s simply that mistakes happen.
Vampire? Good grief.
I am liebe17 and I'd like to address the concerns mentioned above. I've got hundreds of affiliates. You don't get to be a best seller a clickbank by cheating people.
If you think it's that easy, go ahead and try. It's much easier to make money helping affiliates.
I'm also an affiliate of other products and I know this about website visitors.
No one "owns" them, you only rent a visitor.
Even though Clickbank puts a tracking cookie on their computer (assuming that they visitor doesn?t have cookies blocked on their computer), they can still find the sales page through another affiliate Clickbank affiliate besides you.
Consider this example.
I send a Visitor to a sales page --------> they don't buy the product
Same visitor sees a Google Ad 1 week later, from another affiliate,
clicks on the ad ------------------> doesn't buy the product again.
Same visitor visits another affiliate's promotion webpage, clicks through
to my sales page --------------> visitor does by the product.
Even though ?my? visitor was introduced to the product by me, I won?t get paid and I don?t expect to. The visitor just didn?t buy when I sent them there.
No one stole my visitor, another vendor just happened to make the offer when they were ready to buy.
There is no way I can make sure the first affiliate gets credit for a sale. That's up to Clickbank and how they track.
Finally, I don?t want you or any vendor to feel they?re getting ripped off.
If you feel you?re being ripped off, cheated in any way, don?t just tell me ? report me or any Vendor to clickbank.
Whether those in the forums think so or not, clickbank takes that stuff really seriously and they?ll do an investigation.
If you find a problem, a link that is incorrect or anything, just phone me. I give my phone number to my affiliates. Just then tell me where the problem is and I?ll have my staff fix it.
Because it's really easy to make a post in a Forum and make all kinds of accusations without having them challenged.
The truth is that sometimes we do test different offer pages to improve conversions and sometimes links do get mixed up. But that?s not because we?re ?vampires? Monsters or Mobsters. It?s simply that mistakes happen.
