To the German Members

[focussed-efficiency]

Hi @ all.

Since it was the reason for my registration here and I, instantely afterwards, lurked at a thread which mentioned the same matter of concern..

May I ask, how y'all handle taxes and company founding in Germany? Did you create an "Einzelunternehmen" or a "UG", or did you all just leave to Bulgaria with a Kanada LLP in hand soon after?

Please share some advice for the others living in Texas.. uhh.. Taxes. Yeah, bad one..

I honestly don't know, what's the best way to start from scratch.


Kind regards

- focussed

 

[Amaz0n]

If you have a specific question, I might help you for free, since it's Christmas after all

One simple advice already: If you are in Germany, you have to pay taxes in Germany regardless where you are incorporating, except if you can actually create "substance" in another country of incorporation.

 

[focussed-efficiency]

Didn't know Christmas was meand for that kinda stuff, but I guess it's the time to be jolly,..

..so I'll take it.
If you prefer a PM, let me know. For now I'll just shout it out right here.

Actually I'm not trying to tax evade, I just wanna make the best out of the circumstances given, because I'm far from creating any "substance".
Did the tax evasion thing for a few years, but yeah.. it got way to complex at a certain point and nothing was scalable or even slightly reliable.
Not to mention the inner struggle.

I have an appointment with a tax account/advisor for company foundations in about a month, but thought it still might be a good idea to get some input from you.


1. In regards to Dropshipping (with an exclusively small risk factor), would an "Einzelunternehmen" make sense?

2. I also have some other projects in mind, like selling digital goods, building and selling an app, selling designs yadda yadda. Can I let all of these things run through one company bank account and with one "Einzelunternehmen"?

3. If I'd side hustle even more by doing some content writing or SEO for companies/people, would it make more sense to do this separately as a Freelancer?

Unfortunately emigration is not an option, yet.

For now, my mind is flooded by all the regulations and I'm trying to get a toe into clear water.

 

[Heiko]

1. In regards to Dropshipping (with an exclusively small risk factor), would an "Einzelunternehmen" make sense?

2. I also have some other projects in mind, like selling digital goods, building and selling an app, selling designs yadda yadda. Can I let all of these things run through one company bank account and with one "Einzelunternehmen"?

3. If I'd side hustle even more by doing some content writing or SEO for companies/people, would it make more sense to do this separately as a Freelancer?

Unfortunately emigration is not an option, yet.

For now, my mind is flooded by all the regulations and I'm trying to get a toe into clear water.

1. Dropshipping from Germany is complicated especially if you are not storing the stuff in your home. It's called "Umsatzsteuerliches Reihengeschäft" and there have to made countless registrations with this. This is not something anyone can explain here and best suited for a Tax Advisor. And yes, Einzelunternehmen or "UG" is the best choice.

2. Yes and no. You can put it on your "Gewerbeanmeldung" but most Tax Advisors will possibly tell you that there have to made several Tax Statements for each project you are working on. App Selling and Digital Goods might work, but Dropshipping with Digital Marketing will not.

3. Possibly not, as this might be considered "part of your business".

As you can see it's not really that easy with taxes, especially in Germany and its not fun at all. A Tax Advisor is definitely needed and do not try to make any shortcuts here as it will come back and bite you in the ass in the long run. Me personally, if i would have not have family & friends here i would've already left the country as some rules regarding taxes are beyond ridiculous (Like the "Umsatzsteuerliches Reihengeschäft") - The Tax System in Germany is one of the most complicated ones in the world. One last word from me: If you've really hit the jackpot in the future with one of your projects consider moving to a different country as Germany will tear you apart.

 

[Amaz0n]

1. You don't have to create a company, you can just go ahead and do it with a simple registration on your name but then you will pay personal taxes on your business income. So, depending on your situation - if you have already high personal income from a job or whatever - it might be better to create an UG or GmbH or LTD (but better go with UG in that case).

Regarding the previous poster who mentioned "Umsatzsteuerliches Reihengeschäft" - yeah Germany or generally the EU is not a good country to do legal dropship from/to, unless you have 1 supplier inside the EU or even better one in Germany and it never changes as you have to register for VAT in that country.

As general rule, you always have to be VAT registered in the country where your goods are shipped from.

An easy bypass would be to use an own warehouse and re-route stuff, ie. you would receive something from France to Germany and then send it to your customers. Then it's not a "Umsatzsteuerliches Reihengeschäft" anymore.

Also, the VAT registration in the "shipped from" country is not a Germany only thing. Nowadays, all EU companies need to register for VAT in the country where the warehouse is located. The EU basically loves to fuck entrepreneurs and small businesses and prevent them from intra EU selling. Oh, yeah, and if you dropship directly from China you need to have an VAT ID in every single EU country where your customer is located, hahaha.

2. Yes.

3. Depends, if you have a company for the first project, then it would be easier to do everything under this one company instead of doing it separately as "freelancer".

 

[Amaz0n]

This is not something anyone can explain here

I can, but for free, nope

 

[focussed-efficiency]

1. Dropshipping from Germany is complicated especially if you are not storing the stuff in your home. It's called "Umsatzsteuerliches Reihengeschäft" and there have to made countless registrations with this. This is not something anyone can explain here and best suited for a Tax Advisor. And yes, Einzelunternehmen or "UG" is the best choice.

2. Yes and no. You can put it on your "Gewerbeanmeldung" but most Tax Advisors will possibly tell you that there have to made several Tax Statements for each project you are working on. App Selling and Digital Goods might work, but Dropshipping with Digital Marketing will not.

3. Possibly not, as this might be considered "part of your business".

As you can see it's not really that easy with taxes, especially in Germany and its not fun at all. A Tax Advisor is definitely needed and do not try to make any shortcuts here as it will come back and bite you in the ass in the long run. Me personally, if i would have not have family & friends here i would've already left the country as some rules regarding taxes are beyond ridiculous (Like the "Umsatzsteuerliches Reihengeschäft") - The Tax System in Germany is one of the most complicated ones in the world. One last word from me: If you've really hit the jackpot in the future with one of your projects consider moving to a different country as Germany will tear you apart.

Glad we are all on the same level here. Was a little afraid that someone would say: "The tax system in Germany is NOT THAT BAD!"

1. Streckengeschäft, Umsatzsteuerliches Reihengeschäft, Zoll-Einfuhrgebühren.. WHY??? Still I see a lot of Dropshipping shops like "fedehi dot com" which just make it seem like an easy side hustle.

2. So,.. same company but two tax statements?

4. At least one little lamp in this pitch black darkness.


Believe me.. I'm already with one foot in Bulgaria.. I'd love to live in Germany and have a good amount of money, but living in Germany might than be the cause I lost a good amount of money.

Please also take a look at my following answer, which might change one or two things.

1. You don't have to create a company, you can just go ahead and do it with a simple registration on your name but then you will pay personal taxes on your business income. So, depending on your situation - if you have already high personal income from a job or whatever - it might be better to create an UG or GmbH or LTD (but better go with UG in that case).

Regarding the previous poster who mentioned "Umsatzsteuerliches Reihengeschäft" - yeah Germany or generally the EU is not a good country to do legal dropship from/to, unless you have 1 supplier inside the EU or even better one in Germany and it never changes as you have to register for VAT in that country.

As general rule, you always have to be VAT registered in the country where your goods are shipped from.

An easy bypass would be to use an own warehouse and re-route stuff, ie. you would receive something from France to Germany and then send it to your customers. Then it's not a "Umsatzsteuerliches Reihengeschäft" anymore.

Also, the VAT registration in the "shipped from" country is not a Germany only thing. Nowadays, all EU companies need to register for VAT in the country where the warehouse is located. The EU basically loves to fuck entrepreneurs and small businesses and prevent them from intra EU selling. Oh, yeah, and if you dropship directly from China you need to have an VAT ID in every single EU country where your customer is located, hahaha.

2. Yes.

3. Depends, if you have a company for the first project, then it would be easier to do everything under this one company instead of doing it separately as "freelancer".

1. This might change something.. Due to chronic illness (not that bad, but doctors recently told me "just learn to live with it") I'm right now depending on the "Sozialamt", which gives me sleepless nights about how to provide the money needed for a beautiful life. Gap in my résumé and repeating phases of sickness are a no-go for any employer, even though on other days I can work 14 hrs straight w/o any problems.
That's the reason why I started all of this. And the reason why I'm here, writing this.

My supplier is resided in the UAE. Customers buy from my shop with a small discount -> I buy from his shop with a bigger discount and use the customer address as the delivery address. Idea was to just show a Disclaimer which declares the forwarding of the personal data to a third party.

Do I really need to let him send the stuff to me, so I can relabel it?


Well.. I guess China is a no-go for me then. Doggone it! These guys on Ebay make it look so smooth..

2. That's great, but Heiko mentioned the two Tax statements. That's not great.

3. Easier is great right now. Thought there might be an unbearable discrepancy between the taxation of Company and Freelancer.

 

[focussed-efficiency]

BTW.. You guys should be more motivating in my opinion. Just sayin'..

 

[Amaz0n]

Bulgaria.

That's where I am.

My supplier is resided in the UAE. Customers buy from my shop with a small discount -> I buy from his shop with a bigger discount and use the customer address as the delivery address. Idea was to just show a Disclaimer which declares the forwarding of the personal data to a third party.

Do I really need to let him send the stuff to me, so I can relabel it?

You could bypass by being just "an affiliate" who gets a commission from a sale. Instead of being the shop, you just received a commission from a sale. Needs some creative thinking.

Well.. I guess China is a no-go for me then. Doggone it! These guys on Ebay make it look so smooth..

Just do warehouse instead of dropshipping. It's harder but you are competing with dropshippers who are committing tax crime as most of them are not paying VAT, so they are able to underbid you by around 20% (VAT in most EU country is around that). Dropshipping is for hit & run & tax criminals, you need to do quality and find good products and then source them with low quantities.

2. That's great, but Heiko mentioned the two Tax statements. That's not great.

I don't know what he means by that, maybe if you have personal income and a UG/GmbH, then you would have to do multiple, otherwise, if you are doing "freelancing" ie. without a company, then you have only 1 filing per year (+ VAT filings).

 

[Amaz0n]

BTW.. You guys should be more motivating in my opinion. Just sayin'..

I was pretty positive about the Germany's taxes for quite some time but since the elite's goal is to make Germans a minority in Germany I changed my mind. However I never found it difficult or too much while residing inside Germany, just if you are in a position to relocate, why not.

 

[focussed-efficiency]

That's where I am.

Sofia? Anyway.. great choice! Had a blast the last times I been to BG.
Hope you are doing well over there.

You could bypass by being just "an affiliate" who gets a commission from a sale. Instead of being the shop, you just received a commission from a sale. Needs some creative thinking.

I was considering the "Kommissionierungsgeschäft", but if I'm right I would have to use the creators impress on my site in this case?!? That's not doable for me. The guy is a little older and I don't wanna stress him, or rather concern him, with thinks he doesn't understand. He trusted me way more than I could have imagined initially and I don't wanna cause any more trouble.

Or is it possible to do this "private" (by paying .. income taxes..) or with an "Einzelunternehmen"?

Just do warehouse instead of dropshipping.

That's what I did the last years.. kind of.. But I wanna get rid of all the "stuff". Minimalism is the new goal. Becoming a digital nomad.
But I'll keep that in mind for sure.

I'm thrilled to see what the advisor will say and keep both of you updated afterwards.

I was pretty positive about the Germany's taxes for quite some time but since the elite's goal is to make Germans a minority in Germany I changed my mind. However I never found it difficult or too much while residing inside Germany, just if you are in a position to relocate, why not.

First one.. can't relate.
Second one.. definitely. Culture is changing..
..well, rather fading..

A nation without culture makes no sense at all and will backfire for EVERYONE sooner or later.

 

[Amaz0n]

Sofia? Anyway.. great choice! Had a blast the last times I been to BG.

It's alright, good business atmosphere and low taxes. I am just here for short periods of time and then move around Asia.

Hope you are doing well over there.
I was considering the "Kommissionierungsgeschäft", but if I'm right I would have to use the creators impress on my site in this case?!? That's not doable for me. The guy is a little older and I don't wanna stress him, or rather concern him, with thinks he doesn't understand. He trusted me way more than I could have imagined initially and I don't wanna cause any more trouble.

Or is it possible to do this "private" (by paying .. income taxes..) or with an "Einzelunternehmen"?

Too specific, you need to figure this out by yourself, but yes, making a deal with the owner would be a good start to get a commission instead of dropshipping. But, the owner would have to be also VAT registered by IOSS (goods value below 150 EUR otherwise VAT in each EU country he sells to) otherwise it's tax fraud but he could choose to ignore it but then the customers would have to deal with the customs and German customs will be very strict which means the customers would haveto go to their local customs office to pay import taxes + VAT.

But I wanna get rid of all the "stuff". Minimalism is the new goal. Becoming a digital nomad.
But I'll keep that in mind for sure.

Yeah that's what I do. China -> warehouse -> customer. Very easy and uncomplicated.

 

[Heiko]

You could bypass by being just "an affiliate" who gets a commission from a sale. Instead of being the shop, you just received a commission from a sale. Needs some creative thinking.

That really is some creative thinking. Thanks for the idea.

 

[focussed-efficiency]

It's alright, good business atmosphere and low taxes. I am just here for short periods of time and then move around Asia.

Hard knock life you got. Better get your shit together so you can buy a house and don't have to search for locations around Asia to get a bed for the night.

Too specific, you need to figure this out by yourself, but yes, making a deal with the owner would be a good start to get a commission instead of dropshipping. But, the owner would have to be also VAT registered by IOSS (goods value below 150 EUR otherwise VAT in each EU country he sells to) otherwise it's tax fraud but he could choose to ignore it but then the customers would have to deal with the customs and German customs will be very strict which means the customers would haveto go to their local customs office to pay import taxes + VAT.

Last time I could pay taxes online beforehand or alternatively in cash to the delivery guy.
Goods value is under 150, but the delivery is costy af.

It's UAE.. Don't think he got a VAT.

On the other hand, it's exceptional artwork and most buyers are quite wealthy, so.. I don't think they care if I at least inform them before their payment.

Yeah that's what I do. China -> warehouse -> customer. Very easy and uncomplicated.

You got me hooked now.

W/O going into too much detail,..

It's all automatized except for your purchases from the supplier and some customer service, right?
Or do you pack them parcels yourself?

If outsourced, ExWork,.. Warehouse in BG or the cheaper option CZ?
And did you build that all by yourself or with a partner that does the operational business?

I'm lacking the capital to start that, but seems like something worth to work on.

 

[Amaz0n]

Hard knock life you got. Better get your shit together so you can buy a house and don't have to search for locations around Asia to get a bed for the night.

I just rent a pool villa in Thailand for half a year and order 18 yo prostitutes from instagram. It's kinda a hard life because imagine you have to deal on a daily basis with girls who behave like little princesses, but it works for me. Current project is trying to get a wive from the Phillipines. What do I want with a house, can't take it with me at the end.

Last time I could pay taxes online beforehand or alternatively in cash to the delivery guy.
Goods value is under 150, but the delivery is costy af.

It's UAE.. Don't think he got a VAT.

You didn't understand the requirements. He would need to register for VAT ID with his UAE company inside the country he would sell to if value is over 150 EUR. Example: Selling to France, need France VAT ID. Selling to Germany, need Germany VAT ID. And so on. If value is under 150 EUR, he can register for IOSS, which is a "virtual" VAT ID for all EU countries, it removes the requirement to rgister for VAT in every EU country, but only works if value of goods is under 150 EUR.

W/O going into too much detail,..

Well, it's pretty specific already.

It's all automatized except for your purchases from the supplier and some customer service, right?
Or do you pack them parcels yourself?

If outsourced, ExWork,.. Warehouse in BG or the cheaper option CZ?
And did you build that all by yourself or with a partner that does the operational business?

I'm lacking the capital to start that, but seems like something worth to work on.

Google "fulfillment center" - I rent space in a fulfillment center/warehouse in Germany as most of my customers are there and it has also very low shipping rates to neighboring countries as well. Most of goods are directly imported from China to them and they do all the work like packing and sending the parcels. There's not capital needed, well except for the stuff you would buy... but if you're sourcing right, and your UAE guy is willing, it might work with very low quantities.

 

[focussed-efficiency]

I just rent a pool villa in Thailand for half a year and order 18 yo prostitutes from instagram. It's kinda a hard life because imagine you have to deal on a daily basis with girls who behave like little princesses, but it works for me. Current project is trying to get a wive from the Phillipines. What do I want with a house, can't take it with me at the end.

But do me a favor..

If these thai girls behave TOO MUCH like little princesses, verify their age.. Might be, because they are.

For the Wive,.. no doubt, you got that king!

Just drop your last tax statement.

You didn't understand the requirements. He would need to register for VAT ID with his UAE company inside the country he would sell to if value is over 150 EUR. Example: Selling to France, need France VAT ID. Selling to Germany, need Germany VAT ID. And so on. If value is under 150 EUR, he can register for IOSS, which is a "virtual" VAT ID for all EU countries, it removes the requirement to rgister for VAT in every EU country, but only works if value of goods is under 150 EUR.

You're right. Misunderstood. Thanks for the Dummie-version. Would buy your book.

Shouldn't be a problem at all. I mean - it's art. We MAKE the prices. But as mentioned, he's too old. I don't wanna bother him with that kind of stuff. He would just get stressed.
Morals over money. I'm thankful for the opportunity he offered. He doesn't need me as much as I need him.

Not gonna let this slip though. Might make a subtle suggestion in this direction.

Well, it's pretty specific already.

Yeah,.. I know. And I'm thankful. Very thankful, that you share your knowledge.

Google "fulfillment center" - I rent space in a fulfillment center/warehouse in Germany as most of my customers are there and it has also very low shipping rates to neighboring countries as well. Most of goods are directly imported from China to them and they do all the work like packing and sending the parcels. There's not capital needed, well except for the stuff you would buy... but if you're sourcing right, and your UAE guy is willing, it might work with very low quantities.

I know. My former employee had a contract with a fulfillment center in Germany and changed to CZ to save some more money.


I'm still not really aware of the whole construct in regards to marketplace, supplier, margin etc., but I'll take a look at this system and maybe give it a shot in the future.


Once again, THANK YOU! Very much!

I hope you and your prostitutes have a wonderful and blessed christmas full of joy, unforgettable-positive memories and maybe some BDSM if you're into it.
Get them Hoe, Hoe, Hoes!

 

[Amaz0n]

Once again, THANK YOU! Very much!

Good luck! Once you will be 18, it will become easier for you as you can register your own companies and stuff!