Dispute: ATuringtest v SethTurin

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Looks like he got a little bit mad over the fact that you wanted a refund (which he agreed to), and then 24 hours later, he proceeded with a bank chargeback. Since PayPal does not get involved when it comes to external chargebacks, you'll be out of refund money sooner rather than later. $379 was worth more to him than his 2011 BHW account, 2012 sales thread, and the thousands of potential customers that this forum can bring.
 
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LilMosey said:
Looks like he got a little bit mad over the fact that you wanted a refund (which he agreed to), and then 24 hours later, he proceeded with a bank chargeback. Since PayPal does not get involved when it comes to external chargebacks, you'll be out of refund money sooner rather than later. $379 was worth more to him than his 2011 BHW account, 2012 sales thread, and the thousands of potential customers that this forum can bring.
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I will go into detail later, but FYI they didn't ban the SethTurin who opened the account on here in 2011 or who had the sales thread in 2012 ;)
 
Too bad to see a merchant refusing to satisfy a customer, no matter how righteous he feels by issuing a refund for a 4 years deal.
 
ATuringtest said:
I will need a day to prepare my review of Seth Turin and uBot Studio.
But, thank you BHW staff for upholding the rules.
Its not quite the outcome I was hoping for - I would have liked the money - then the lifetime ban applied. (lol)
I believe along with several others that this course of action has in fact dodged a huge bullet for BHW and its members. ( I'll go into much more detail later)
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No need.

He is banned for good and he cannot sell his stuff here.
 
You should be glad he was stupid and things went that way, judging from the message screenshot he shared, he could get you on troubles for defamation & slander.

Communication is the key guys, we get feedback, we improves our services quality, and provide a good CR, and it's a WIN-WIN for everyone.
 
I like it when I buy a lifetime license, then the provider removes all the license tiers from public sale and proceeds to replace all the tiers with a single enterprise tier (the only tier being sold on their sales page publicly) which isn't available to the lifetime license buyers.

Before, any subscription fee was just to get the latest updates - but would not be locked out of the software if you stopped updating, you could freely continue using the older versions.

Simply removing the tiers, making a new single 'tier' and excluding the lifetime buyers is entirely against the spirit of a lifetime license (under the previous arrangement, we would have still needed to pay to upgrade versions). There is no purpose to tiers if you only offer one tier.

I would have been happy to see Ubot being revived if the lifetime license buyers weren't being shafted. I think the seller is underestimating the value of having a community of satisfied buyers, it really is some of the best long term marketing you can have. It is not a meme.

Despite it's flaws and some very buggy release versions (often using the older major version was the best choice), the tool has been extremely useful to me over the years and I don't regret buying it ~10 years ago. I do regret buying the Developer tier though. I bought Ubot because I saw it recommended by several users here on BHW.

ATuringtest said:
I will go into detail later, but FYI they didn't ban the SethTurin who opened the account on here in 2011 or who had the sales thread in 2012 ;)
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Ahh wow ok, this is starting to make sense now.

I'm speculating that the refund requested in this dispute could be somewhat related to the same grievances I have with the tiers being replaced.

Judging from the attitude of the new person running this software I'm seeing in this thread, I doubt they have the ability to introspect and consider the possibility that perhaps how they are handling this situation, this refund and lifetime buyers in general could have been the wrong strategy. I believe I've seen this kind of attitude before and it's impossible to reason with. I'd welcome being proven wrong though, I do believe in redemption and learning from mistakes. I'd like to propose considering letting 'Seth' back if he agrees to look after the lifetime buyers (and issue this refund, if it is still wanted) under the original agreement without any bait/switch games with tiers or price hikes on the regular updates cost. From the attitude I've seen in this thread though, I doubt he'd be able to humble himself if the offer was even on the table.

It is likely the community has dodged a bullet with this being blocked from sale.
 
I'm genuinely confused by this one. Why does he have to issue a refund after 4 years? Was that part of his refund policy? Did he ever say he would refund you if the service stopped working, no matter how many years had passed?

I'm really confused by this one. If he did claim he would provide lifetime refunds, i don't think he is very smart at all. How can you guarantee something will work forever? Particularly when it comes to digital marketing. Every product is incredibly feeble and highly dependent on several third parties on order to work. You just can't make that sort of promise to anyone. That's an illusion. I don't even think it should be allowed here, because it's clearly not possible. Technology changes too fast. Nobody can guarantee you a bot will still work years after the purchase.
 
TheSplinter said:
I'm genuinely confused by this one. Why does he have to issue a refund after 4 years? Was that part of his refund policy? Did he ever say he would refund you if the service stopped working, no matter how many years had passed?

I'm really confused by this one. If he did claim he would provide lifetime refunds, i don't think he is very smart at all. How can you guarantee something will work forever? Particularly when it comes to digital marketing. Every product is incredibly feeble and highly dependent on several third parties on order to work. You just can't make that sort of promise to anyone. That's an illusion. I don't even think it should be allowed here, because it's clearly not possible. Technology changes too fast. Nobody can guarantee you a bot will still work years after the purchase.
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True, but still so many things work nowadays that worked years ago ;)
 
TheSplinter said:
I'm genuinely confused by this one. Why does he have to issue a refund after 4 years? Was that part of his refund policy? Did he ever say he would refund you if the service stopped working, no matter how many years had passed?

I'm really confused by this one. If he did claim he would provide lifetime refunds, i don't think he is very smart at all. How can you guarantee something will work forever? Particularly when it comes to digital marketing. Every product is incredibly feeble and highly dependent on several third parties on order to work. You just can't make that sort of promise to anyone. That's an illusion. I don't even think it should be allowed here, because it's clearly not possible. Technology changes too fast. Nobody can guarantee you a bot will still work years after the purchase.
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If someone offers a lifetime license and years later they are still in business, but have essentially orphaned what you purchased by simply removing all the previous tiers and creating a new single tier that is for the same product, I would consider that to be dishonest at best, a scam at worst.

Under the previous offer, we still needed to pay for version upgrades (e.g. buy 6 months of upgrades). Once that period expires, you are stuck on the last version before the upgrades period ended.

It's one thing to stop working on the project entirely, shut down, go on hiatus etc. it's another thing to be working on the project but actively orphaning the previously sold licenses and trying to upsell them to purchase something they already purchased.

I don't know the reasoning for this particular dispute/refund though.
 
TheSplinter said:
I'm genuinely confused by this one. Why does he have to issue a refund after 4 years? Was that part of his refund policy? Did he ever say he would refund you if the service stopped working, no matter how many years had passed?

I'm really confused by this one. If he did claim he would provide lifetime refunds, i don't think he is very smart at all. How can you guarantee something will work forever? Particularly when it comes to digital marketing. Every product is incredibly feeble and highly dependent on several third parties on order to work. You just can't make that sort of promise to anyone. That's an illusion. I don't even think it should be allowed here, because it's clearly not possible. Technology changes too fast. Nobody can guarantee you a bot will still work years after the purchase.
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Ok I want to explain the time line to for this refund.
1. I saw Seth Turin's giveaway/test thread of a copy of UBot Studio. I assumed it was to get a future BST to sell UBot Studio.
2. I along with others, made my feelings known about the software - Seth Turin and his/her/its company polices.
3. The negative posts were removed by admin.
4. I was DM'd by Seth Turin with some bull shit about how they take users privacy very seriously. I never asked for a refund.

fullofshit.png
5. Then he offered me a refund to basically shut me up - hush money etc. I was happy to take the money - I'd spent over 2 years on various mods and 3rd party plugins about £1000 on Ubot Studio.

theoffer.png

6. He offered to pay for what I had bought from UBot studio the automation software company.
7. I the received a refund in my PayPal account.
8. Less than 24 hours later it had a revesal/funds held placed on it. As you know buyers win 100% of these cases coz PayPal fucking sucks.
9. I immediately open a shit list - this one.
10. Seth Turin of the automation software company UBot studio sent me this reply after I asked him why he had claimed an unauthorised payment in PayPal for my refund. Here is his reply - a pure bold face lie.
baitnswitich.png

11. And my reply.

conmansethturinubotstudiosftware.png

The refund was a pure scam. They thought I was just another dumb customer who would fall for PayPal trick of waiting for the dispute to be resolved in 30 days - get their BST passed - have 3 weeks of sales and then do a runner.
I would have been the first person on the top of the BST thread to pay $50 and give a totally honest review of UBot Studio Automation software by Seth Turin.
 
The way I see it, he was banned for the scam refund, not for being obliged to make the refund in the first place.

I don't understand why he even needed to offer that, because even if he paid the $400 it wouldn't have helped them.
OP was prevented from commenting on their thread.
He was also not allowed to share that he posted on the Jr. Exec sub forum because we don't discuss what's in there..
 
chowyoungfat said:
If someone offers a lifetime license and years later they are still in business, but have essentially orphaned what you purchased by simply removing all the previous tiers and creating a new single tier that is for the same product, I would consider that to be dishonest at best, a scam at worst.

Under the previous offer, we still needed to pay for version upgrades (e.g. buy 6 months of upgrades). Once that period expires, you are stuck on the last version before the upgrades period ended.

It's one thing to stop working on the project entirely, shut down, go on hiatus etc. it's another thing to be working on the project but actively orphaning the previously sold licenses and trying to upsell them to purchase something they already purchased.

I don't know the reasoning for this particular dispute/refund though.
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Ok, understood. It's still a dumb business practice to offer "lifetime" anything. The thing stops working and then what? You gotta refund hundreds of people that have been using the product for years? That's setting yourself up for a disaster.
 
TheSplinter said:
Ok, understood. It's still a dumb business practice to offer "lifetime" anything. The thing stops working and then what? You gotta refund hundreds of people that have been using the product for years? That's setting yourself up for a disaster.
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He didn't offer "lifetime refunds". The seller had no obligation to offer this refund. He just did it because of his "supposedly pure goodwill" and wanted to earn some brownie points by doing this so he would claim "look we care about our customers."

This Seth Turing guy seems to be a bit dumb. He offered hush money, a critic accepted his offer (of a mere $400 to retract honest review which would've likely made him atleast a couple thousand it seems) and then proceeded to retract it back. Like why can't you just keep your word?
 
roydan said:
He was also not allowed to share that he posted on the Jr. Exec sub forum
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Oh this also exists? No one mentioned it even once on normal forum.Now I get my next goal in life.
 
roydan said:
In the same way we're not allowed to share what's on the Jr. VIP forums.
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It is ok not to share what's in there. But one can mention that it exists. So that Jr VIPs can also aim for something.
 
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