Dispute: ATuringtest v SethTurin

@SethTurin offered me a refund for software I had bought through his BST . The refund was issued on Weds 31st May 2023. Less than 48 hours later he claimed it was unauthorised to PayPal and now its on hold. I have no doubt I wont see a penny of the refund now. Refund was $379.





The money was in my account for 24 hours and then :



Proof of purchase below

Information For The Accused
@SethTurin - you have 24 hours to respond to this disputes thread. If you do not respond within 24 hours or we note that you're engaging in any other activities on the forum rather than dealing with this dispute, the decision will be made in favour of the dispute starter and you will be permanently banned from Black Hat World. In the event that you're permanently banned from the forum, you may send in a support ticket using our support channel only once you've refunded and/or provided what the plaintiff has requested.

If your responses to this dispute do not remain prompt, your account will be banned.

Information For The Accused & The Dispute Starter
Please remain professional as name calling, insults, griping, tu quoque, and ad hominem will not be tolerated. Should the dispute starter resort to this, the dispute will be forfeit; and if the accused resorts to this, the dispute will automatically be in the dispute starter's favour.

The moderator mediating this dispute is simply trying to fair a resolution to this dispute. Any mod abuse or accusations (e.g., "you're biased", "you're protecting scammers", etc) directed toward the moderator will not be tolerated and may result in an infraction for mod abuse.

Information For Other Members
If anyone else has the same issue with the accused, you may respond so long as you supply evidence in the form of screenshots, videos, etc.

Please bear in mind Dispute Resoltion section rule #4 before responding.

"If you are not directly related to the situation, or are not offering information directly related to the situation: do not post in the thread. Anyone caught doing so will receive an infraction and be reply banned from posting in the thread."

This payment was marked as suspicious by PayPal and reversed. There was no intervention on my part whatsoever. I'm looking into the matter now.

To provide more information to this situation, the purchase of the software was made in 2019. The ATuringTest used the software for some time, and ultimately stopped using the software.

Naturally, the 4 years that have past since the software was purchased is far outside our stated refund policy.

The refund being disputed was an act of goodwill toward a gentleman who had a bad experience with our software.

Since the charge is so old, there is no option for me to refund it, so I opted to send the money via PayPal.

After looking into the issue, I found that the payment was flagged by PayPal's system, and I'm now working with PayPal to resolve the issue.

I can continue looking into the PayPal issue, but I request this thread be closed as invalid, because this money was never owed in the first place.

The accuser purchased UBot Studio in 2019, spending a total of $379.



We have a clearly stated refund policy of 30 days.

The accuser did not ask for a refund in that period.

The accuser used the software for some time after purchasing, evidenced by his posting multiple times on our forum, including after the refund period had long ended:



During my recent efforts to revive UBot Studio's presence in BHW, I posted a thread offering a review copy.

The accuser posted in the thread, making false claims that UBot Studio was scamming people. We've been in business for 14 years and have become a staple of internet marketers. We are not scammers.

I reached out to the accuser in private:


The accuser responded, threatening to continue making false claims:


I considered simply waiting for the false claims to happen, and flagging them with proof to the contrary, but ultimately decided on a more diplomatic approach.

I decided to offer the accuser a full refund of the software he purchased and used 4 years ago.


Note that this was an offer of goodwill and there was no legal, ethical, or moral obligation for me to pay the money in question.

He responded:


Note that his request is for a greater amount than the money actually paid for the product. Notice also the language used, that he was making deal, in exchange for not talking about my software.

I reiterated that I was willing to refund the money paid in, and he agreed.

As the transaction was so long ago, it wasn't possible for me to actually refund it through the payment method, so I offered a PayPal payment instead.

The transaction was flagged by PayPal, apparently due to suspicious activity regarding the account it was sent to, though I'm still looking into this.

The accuser sent me a message:


The accuser then opened this thread, before I had a chance to respond.

In summary, this dispute is about a money that was never owed, sent as a gesture of goodwill. While I'm still investigating the transaction, since the accuser was never entitled to the money in the first place, I believe this dispute should be closed.

Once things are settled, we close the thread.

@SethTurin

If you want me to get into a slanging match in this thread and list all of my grievances, then so be it.
Your Choice.

BassTrackerBoats said:

Once things are settled, we close the thread.

Click to expand...

Just to follow up, can you be specific about what settlement looks like in this case? I've proven, with hard evidence, that no money is owed here, and its unclear what kind of settlement you're looking for.

SethTurin said:

Just to follow up, can you be specific about what settlement looks like in this case? I've proven, with hard evidence, that no money is owed here, and its unclear what kind of settlement you're looking for.

Click to expand...

A. When what you offered me is in my bitcoin wallet. (Dispute is closed)
B. Or you can wait for the dispute (reversal) on PayPal. (Dispute thread remains live until - refer to A). Or refer to C.
C. You don't do A - BTB looses patience and your banned for life, your software can't get a BST (Rules) and this thread is locked and live until A.

Is there anything I've missed?

Edit I did : you can't apply for a BST while there's a pending dispute open.

SethTurin said:

Just to follow up, can you be specific about what settlement looks like in this case? I've proven, with hard evidence, that no money is owed here, and its unclear what kind of settlement you're looking for.

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You tried to refund, PP messed it up.

https://www.blackhatworld.com/seo/dispute-aturingtest-v-sethturin.1503218/post-16460124
Once you figure out how to push that refund through and the accused receives it then I'll delete this thread,

I'll let you know when the funds clear/don't - 30 days from now is July 3, 2023.

BassTrackerBoats said:

You tried to refund, PP messed it up.

https://www.blackhatworld.com/seo/dispute-aturingtest-v-sethturin.1503218/post-16460124
Once you figure out how to push that refund through and the accused receives it then I'll delete this thread,

Click to expand...

To summarize the situation here, a user has opened a dispute on BHW for a purchase that was made 4 years ago. The dispute was decided as valid, because a goodwill refund, offered 4 years later, was reversed by the bank.

Before I re-issue the funds, I want it on the record that the accuser agreed to certain actions in exchange for this payment:



I would like it furthermore agreed upon that the accuser will take no further actions to damage my company, and will not speak about my company in the future. On this agreement, I will re-issue the goodwill refund.

Are we all in agreement to these terms?

SethTurin said:

Before I re-issue the funds, I want it on the record that the accuser agreed to certain actions in exchange for this payment:

Click to expand...

You can reissue the refund or I can cancel your request for a sales thread.

You have 24 hours as this is cut and dry and I'm not going to waste staff resources on this more than necessary

BassTrackerBoats said:

You can reissue the refund or I can cancel your request for a sales thread.

You have 24 hours as this is cut and dry and I'm not going to waste staff resources on this more than necessary

Click to expand...

The purchase was 4 years ago, far beyond the refund period. If you are unwilling to acknowledge that this payment was in exchange for stated actions, then you are asking me to pay money for no reason. I'm not going to do that.

If this issue is not up for further consideration, then you may proceed to cancel the sales thread.

SethTurin said:

The purchase was 4 years ago, far beyond the refund period. If you are unwilling to acknowledge that this payment was in exchange for stated actions, then you are asking me to pay money for no reason. I'm not going to do that.

If this issue is not up for further consideration, then you may proceed to cancel the sales thread.

Click to expand...

You offered the refund, tried to refund and PP messed that up.

I'll kill the BST request if you want but in my opinion that is not the best course of action for you as you'll never be able to offer your products here.

BassTrackerBoats said:

You offered the refund, tried to refund and PP messed that up.

I'll kill the BST request if you want but in my opinion that is not the best course of action for you as you'll never be able to offer your products here.

Click to expand...

I offered the refund in exchange for the accuser to leave me alone. These were the terms of the refund. I'm asking that you acknowledge this agreement as valid before I reissue the refund.

SethTurin said:

I offered the refund in exchange for the accuser to leave me alone. These were the terms of the refund. I'm asking that you acknowledge this agreement as valid before I reissue the refund.

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I'm not debating this.

Refund or not, I don't care as I'm merely administrating this per the terms of service Mods fall under.

BassTrackerBoats said:

I'm not debating this.

Refund or not, I don't care as I'm merely administrating this per the terms of service Mods fall under.

Click to expand...

Then I'll check in with @ATuringtest

@ATuringtest , if I reissue this payment, do you agree to uphold the terms you originally agreed to? Do you agree that you will take no further harmful actions against my company?

SethTurin said:

Then I'll check in with @ATuringtest

@ATuringtest , if I reissue this payment, do you agree to uphold the terms you originally agreed to? Do you agree that you will take no further harmful actions against my company?

Click to expand...

I'll check in with you.

You are temp banned until you refund.

@SethTurin is banned on a permanent basis as he requested a refund for his membership instead of dealing with this.

The accused has been permanently banned from Black Hat World for failing to resolve this dispute. The dispute thread will remain live and is now open to commentary as rule 4 is no longer enforced in this thread.

I will need a day to prepare my review of Seth Turin and uBot Studio.
But, thank you BHW staff for upholding the rules.
Its not quite the outcome I was hoping for - I would have liked the money - then the lifetime ban applied. (lol)
I believe along with several others that this course of action has in fact dodged a huge bullet for BHW and its members. ( I'll go into much more detail later)