- Mar 30, 2018
- 12,094
- 14,361
hmm I had read this argument 2 years back but it was proven false and its a controversial topic
The DOWNFALL of bitcoin
- Thread starter Dark Sky
- Start date
Dark Sky
Banned - leaving fake reviews.
- Apr 3, 2019
- 1,610
- 2,729
I don't see how,
Bitcoin does require energy to work, and we have lots of data on it's energy use in comparison to miners over the last 10 years, it's now proven to be using as much electricity as the netherlands which is an entire country.
As puzzles get harder, more energy is needed, and puzzles are always getting harder due to increased computing power. That's a fact,
It's a fact that it's a giant problem, we just don't know how to solve the problem or when the problem will become a reality as we have no way to predict how the miners will act going forward.
rauza
Regular Member
- Mar 13, 2014
- 409
- 588
I like BTC and am pretty bullish about it.
But if there's anything that worries me a little at least, it's how quantum computing will change the landscape for cryptocurrency. But then I look at the other angle and think, how will quantum computing change the fiat system as well. Cryptography is in for a big revolution in the future.
But if there's anything that worries me a little at least, it's how quantum computing will change the landscape for cryptocurrency. But then I look at the other angle and think, how will quantum computing change the fiat system as well. Cryptography is in for a big revolution in the future.
D
Deleted member 1333509
Guest
Look up what linear means.
italianstarman
Power Member
- Feb 7, 2019
- 606
- 258
BTC is a store of value.
Will be used in black time as a form of power during a WW3 event.
You could diversificate your portfolio by staking on Cardano and get nice passive income for the whole life.
Will be used in black time as a form of power during a WW3 event.
You could diversificate your portfolio by staking on Cardano and get nice passive income for the whole life.
Dark Sky
Banned - leaving fake reviews.
- Apr 3, 2019
- 1,610
- 2,729
I know what linear means, but you were referring to usage and consumption, I was referring to price and consumption
KaleidoJack
Junior Member
- Nov 21, 2020
- 165
- 101
Read my first post on this thread and you'll see the solution.
Bitcoin miners are going to use waste energy. Did you know that a lot of the energy we produce isn't even used? It's explained in the article I linked. If we build bitcoin mining facilities with this waste energy in mind, we'll be indeed using a lot more energy than we are currently using, but this energy was already being wasted anyway. So that's a good thing. Get it?
The bitcoin energy had already been produced, and we had already polluted the environment to make it. Fortunately, we can now still use it for something. In this case, bitcoin mining. Look at the freaking infrastructure that we're talking about, for christsakes:
How cool is that, huh? It's like we're building the matrix here. Of course it's gonna cost tones of energy.
Last edited:
Dark Sky
Banned - leaving fake reviews.
- Apr 3, 2019
- 1,610
- 2,729
The anticipated energy use for global adoption far outweighs any wasted energy that can be harnessed. We are talking about doubling the planets energy use.
D
Deleted member 1333509
Guest
Out of curiosity, where are you reading that BTC mining will double the world's energy consumption? I don't think that makes sense tbh man.. fairly ludicrous.
KaleidoJack
Junior Member
- Nov 21, 2020
- 165
- 101
More cool pictures of cool bitcoin mining facilities:
Dark Sky
Banned - leaving fake reviews.
- Apr 3, 2019
- 1,610
- 2,729
Why that would be a direct quote from the founder of digieconomist, the website you quoted earlier as a reliable source.
"And this vast computational effort is the cryptocurrency's Achilles heel, says Alex de Vries, the founder of the Digiconomist website and an expert on Bitcoin."
"If Bitcoin were to be adopted as a global reserve currency," he speculates, "the Bitcoin price will probably be in the millions, and those miners will have more money than the entire [US] Federal budget to spend on electricity."
"We'd have to double our global energy production," he says with a laugh. "For Bitcoin."
D
Deleted member 1333509
Guest
He's wrong, and that's a stupid thing to say.
The energy cost of mining Bitcoin is not going 20X any time soon. Like I showed you, adoption went 2.5X and mining energy dedication went +8% during the same period. During the same period total energy cost almost halved twice.
Anyone can get called a "Bitcoin expert" if they set up a website and pay for PR. Answer a few HARO requests and *poof*, there you go... respected crypto intellectual. That was a dumb thing to say.
Last edited by a moderator:
D
Deleted member 1333509
Guest
"If Bitcoin becomes 10X bigger with 10X more users it doesn't need 10X more mining. What we have is enough."
~ An actual, legitimate, globally-recognised Bitcoin expert.
KaleidoJack
Junior Member
- Nov 21, 2020
- 165
- 101
Dark Sky
Banned - leaving fake reviews.
- Apr 3, 2019
- 1,610
- 2,729
I mean.. you quoted the website as a source.
So would you accept this?
https://digiconomist.net/bitcoin-energy-consumption
D
Deleted member 1333509
Guest
Using a statistic doesn't mean everything coming out of this guys mouth is gospel.. obviously.
If he had a chart showing BTC's total energy cost leading to a doubling of global energy consumption then I would have completely ignored that chart, like I've ignored what he said, like you should have also ignored what he said.
In both threads we've discussed crypto at length, I've noticed you've taken the skeptical/pessimistic view both times.
People like to transfix on any kind of negatives relating to crypto they can sometimes..... "it's used by hackers and money launderers", "it's killing the environment", "it's going to zero", "it's got no inherent value", "it's a ponzi".. etc etc like they feel smart because they think other people investing in Bitcoin are missing all of these huge drawbacks and they're going to lose money eventually.
I personally think it's because the success of Bitcoin/crypto is irreconcilable with some people's own world view about what they think is and isn't possible, so I think they need things to reverse in order for their minds to be able to justify what's happened (ie. "see, it wasn't possible all along"). This is certainly also combined with thinly closeted jealously and resentment for seeing crypto pass by them without them making as much as they could (not directing that at you specifically), and that coming out subconsciously as well from what I can tell.
If you want to say that Bitcoin is over-hungry on energy, fine - it is. It's non-optimal that Bitcoin uses as much energy as it does in the mining process.
If you want to say that's going to in some way limit it's growth, it's not, and it's naive to think that it will. If you want to call it a big problem - ok mate, it's a big problem.. what are we doing about it? Bitcoin isn't going to get shutdown by governments, because (thank god) it can't be, so naturally people will innovate to try to provide energy that's more green, and that's going to be a gradual process.
And that's it, this is why this topic is quite boring because the ultimate end result is.... so what.
Last edited by a moderator:
Dark Sky
Banned - leaving fake reviews.
- Apr 3, 2019
- 1,610
- 2,729
I mean, I'm not saying believe everything that comes out of someones mouth.
But if your going to quote a source, and then say said source is unreliable, why are you quoting it in the first place for a statistic? Are you trying to imply that only the statistics you choose from that website are reliable?
And yes, I've also noticed people who are invested in bitcoin will ignore any drawbacks. The reason I fixate on the negatives, is because I already know the positives, and I know bitcoin is great. Now I want to know why it's not so great, and I'm finding a lot out.
Nothing is perfect in this world, and a lot of new emerging revolutionising technologies all have their big drawbacks, bitcoin isn't any different. It was invented by a human, and therefor it will have a drawback.
The most obvious one being that fossil fuels are a cheaper energy source, and anyone who uses the cheaper energy sources for mining bitcoin will profit more. So the attraction is towards polluting sources rather than renewable clean sources. That combined with the energy requirements is a big problem for global warming. And global warming is confirmed to be a MASSIVE issue. What's the point in governments sacrificing some of their economy to get a greener country if bitcoin will undo everything?
And governments can shut it down, they can ban it from their country, and arrest anyone who uses it. Job done. And I'm pretty sure if it threatened the U.S dollar, then the US wouldn't be to hesitant on forcing other countries to ban it either.
Banks are a big business with some mighty big powerful people at the top, and if they can't profit from bitcoin, they won't sit back and watch it fly. They will find some angle to take it down. And right about now, using global warming as the excuse is a mighty fine one that's going to get a lot of backing from green people.
The U.S gov needs two criteria to be met to bring bitcoin down I believe.
1. Their currency threatened
2. A reason to fire.
You seem to think bitcoin can withstand anything, but it can't. Remember, the governments are in charge, not bitcoin enthusiasts. The US can stop this at any time they want. I wouldn't be surprised if they already have a plan ready to go, and they are waiting for something to trigger.
D
Deleted member 1333509
Guest
Statistics are factual data. Opinions are opinions. I quoted his data and I disagreed with his opinion. You're trying to make this a big deal when it isn't. Do us both a favour and don't bother following up on this point.
I'm not invested in Bitcoin and I've written 7,500-words articles covering the drawbacks and weaknesses of Bitcoin, amongst other things. Like I said, I can think of a dozen better reasons Bitcoin won't become the default global reserve currency, and have even already created threads on BHW discussing that I thought that stablecoins will likely fill that roll.
I'm not ignoring the drawbacks, I don't consider the environmental damage created by Bitcoin mining to be significantly worrisome, because within the context of global industry irrespective of Bitcoin, it's not.
If you disagree and think Bitcoin mining is a scourge on humanity that will be stamped out by the leaders of the world, fine. But I think you're wrong.
Bitcoin is very far from perfect. Thinking that Bitcoin mining isn't as bad as you say it is != "Bitcoin is perfect".
In the vast, vast, vast majority of countries in the world, Bitcoin mining is hardly even present and has a tiny impact on energy consumption.
In the major hubs of Bitcoin mining globally like the US and China, their ecological impact is fucking enormous anyway.. Bitcoin mining is not making China substantially more of a polluted place and god knows what the infinitesimally small fraction of energy consumption in China goes to Bitcoin mining.
Edit:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_electricity_consumption
China: 7,225,500
Argentina (as a rough guide): 125,030
125,030 / 7,225,500 = 0.017 = 1.7%. Jaw dropping stuff, and that's total global Bitcoin energy consumption. In truth it's probably more like 60,000 assigned to China, or 0.85% of China's total energy consumption goes to BTC mining. They must be on the brink of collapse with that kind of huge drain on their power network.
Countries have illegalised crypto and it's remained in heavy usage. China is a the best example of this too.
But sure, global bans on crypto would push it underground. Maybe like the war on drugs we could have a war on Bitcoin, seeing as how well every other prohibition in history has worked.
Bitcoin wasn't created with the permission of governments, and it's not still in operation because they allow it to be man. They couldn't shut down Bitcoin if they tried, that's the whole point and that's some of the intrinsic value that a lot of people miss when they're busy calling it a ponzi scheme.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...d-add-up-to-1-of-bitcoin-to-mix-jpmorgan-sayshttps://news.bitcoin.com/jpmorgan-investors-1-portfolios-bitcoin-poor-hedge/
Good timing. Dimon has been the longest standing and most fervent mainstream financial detractor from crypto and Bitcoin.
Also you're missing the point that banks are making money from crypto and they're hugely invested in integrating it into their systems. There's not a competition between USD and BTC with regards to banks, they care about making money.
Oh yeah, just like multi-billion dollar hedge funds can't be bankrupted by a bunch of amatuer traders? Could only imagine how badly trying to ban Bitcoin would backfire on the US government, not to mention that global crypto and blockchain innovation would just move to other countries en masse like China and Russia.
Yeah, shit tonnes of institutional wall street investment firms have recently invested in Bitcoin heavily, and the US government which is massively influenced by wall street lobbists is going to then ban Bitcoin?
Sounds more like salty wishful thinking to me than even vague reality bro, honestly.
Last edited by a moderator:
MartinRaymond1999
Regular Member
- Dec 30, 2020
- 275
- 119
Funny I asked a similar thing just yesterday I believe about crypto being a horrendous energy sink and terrible for the environment. I got some really interesting replies counterting that idea on a reddit post I made.
Here is one of the articles they posted rebutting that and going really into great depth about its benefits and future.
https://danhedl.medium.com/pow-is-efficient-aa3d442754d3
Also
https://braiins.com/blog/a-summary-of-bitcoins-energy-consumption-debate