aspire.samee
Senior Member
- Nov 5, 2020
- 925
- 970
Bitcoin uses Energy
I thinks........
So that is why my village is still without electricity
I thinks........
So that is why my village is still without electricity
The DOWNFALL of bitcoin
- Thread starter Dark Sky
- Start date
Dark Sky
Banned - leaving fake reviews.
- Apr 3, 2019
- 1,610
- 2,729
I just don't understand how you don't think it's the biggest thing to discuss. It currently uses more energy than an entire country. And it's no where near being used daily globally yet.
Our of curiosity, what happens when energy companies don't have enough supply to supply bitcoin. Do you think they will limit it for miners, or limit it for the general public? I assume the miners will be limited.
Bitcoin literally requires energy to work, it's like food for humans. Your answer is "who cares, someone will find a solution"
I see it in this perspective.
The world can live without bitcoin.
The world can't live with a polluted planet.
Your right industries don't care, and they are polluting the planet as it is, and it's getting quite serious. Governments are clamping down on industry pollution. They won't hesitate to clamp down on bitcoin.
The world is struggling with the current energy use. Now bitcoin is going to literally double it soon. That's like duplicating every industry on earth. That's serious. Like really serious.
I'm all for bitcoin, but I don't want our planet to die for it.
The only solution I can see is renewable energy to match the demand, but in no way shape or form do I think industries can meet the demand quick enough in comparison to how fast bitcoin is being adopted. Especially since they can't meet the demand as it is.
- Jan 17, 2015
- 5,263
- 4,955
Great observation from my POV.
Bitcoin is one of the worst crypto efficiency wise. This is why many cryptos arised months later.
If cryptocurrencies are worth, understanding this will lead in the future to a switch for obvious reasons.
And this is the only premise why I'm holding a ton (literally, 1K) of Litecoin
Dogecoin is a great alternative also, but the problem is that 28% of the Dogecoins are known to belong to just 1 man, which makes the crypto extremely dangerous.
Bitcoin is one of the worst crypto efficiency wise. This is why many cryptos arised months later.
If cryptocurrencies are worth, understanding this will lead in the future to a switch for obvious reasons.
And this is the only premise why I'm holding a ton (literally, 1K) of Litecoin
Dogecoin is a great alternative also, but the problem is that 28% of the Dogecoins are known to belong to just 1 man, which makes the crypto extremely dangerous.
D
Deleted member 1333509
Guest
Roughly.....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_electricity_consumption
Bitcoin energy consumption apparently matches Argentina. 30th on this list.
Argentina's proportion of global energy consumption:
125,030 / 23398000 = 0.00534 = 0.534%
So Bitcoin is increasing global energy consumption by half a %. Am I worried? No fucking way. Use some logic instead of hype and bs about global warming fear mongering.
There are upteen articles about this topic because it ropes people in, gets views and clicks, and is sassy, not because it's a serious problem.
Hansj80
Regular Member
- Dec 17, 2019
- 258
- 210
I'll stay on topic with this as this subject is quite deep:
As bitcoin is borderless, governments have not consensus on this matter. Matter of fact....Iran and China are working together and recently launched a massive bitcoin farm in Iran. Same goes with other countries like Venezuela. They can't even get an agreement on basic things like human rights let alone on such thing like crypto with so many variables making it hard to control.
- Whether you put asics, quantum computer or alien technology behind it.... it will never exceed 21mil coins.... I think you can search and find probably 1/3 of that got probably lost.
- recent investment of tesla bringing BTC on it's balance sheet has tied now one of the biggest tech companies it's share value indirectly to bitcoin's value
- microstrategy and other major players have entered the game
- recent paypal acceptance of it
- uber possibly accepting btc
- In zurich, antalya, and other countries you can purchase houses with bitcoin
- mastercard is bringing crypto onto its network
we are in my opinion at the birth of the mass adaptation of crypto, we will go digital one way or another whether we call it bitcoin or something else, but as long every other altcoin's value is indirectly tied to bitcoin, bitcoin sets the rules.
My personal theory is, it will never be used to pay for your pizza anymore...the same way I don't use a gold coin to pay for my pizza. It will become the store of value it already kind of is. The same way gold is finite, so is bitcoin. we as a society give value to whatever we deem valuable. We traded our gold bars in for a slice of a tree with dead people printed on it and the value of the dollar and other currencies are tied in theory to the gold reserves they say they hold on paper. To answer your question about why people get emotional and react emotional... it is because that is where it gets it value because when you look at the technology behind it, there are dozen of other altcoins which are much suited to be used, however, people trust it and that gives it his value.
The day this all breaks down is the day when someone is able to hack/crack it and with the current technology, it will take all the computing power and some good years to break a single wallet for example.
given that moore's law is also reaching its limitation and quantum computing to be used commercially is also at least 10/15 years away. Even then you can simply with cryptography make use of layered security like a vault, in a vault, in a vault making it even for a quantum computer an impossible task to do. Anyone knowing a bit of maths and cryptography can tell you adding just 2/3 layers increased the difficulty of breaking things exponentially.
With regards to the energy consumption,I don't have enough data because we have to compare it's market value/volume against regular fiat and the cost of maintaining, printing fiat. Because BTC has no lobby, has no agenda, has no will, no goal, no owner. The USD has an owner, lobbyist, politics,printing and burning factory..there are so many variables to take into account when you want to express the actual costs of maintaining the USD and my initial guess is, the costs of creating and maintaining btc is nothing compared to something like the USD.
As bitcoin is borderless, governments have not consensus on this matter. Matter of fact....Iran and China are working together and recently launched a massive bitcoin farm in Iran. Same goes with other countries like Venezuela. They can't even get an agreement on basic things like human rights let alone on such thing like crypto with so many variables making it hard to control.
Whether bitcoin will remain the top dog in 20 years is yet to be seen but any person who watches the graphs and charts of the last 10 years will notice one thing and one thing only. When BTC goes up, altcoins go up, when it crashes, the others crash. As long the altcoin's value is indirectly tied to the value of btc, it will stay on top. When you look at the marketcap, the difference between BTC and the rest is just to immense at the moment to even think about kicking him off that throne. Only way is by fighting up the regulation surrounding it but this again is very hard when other countries are actively trying to undermine the dollar and crypto is a perfect way to do that. So again... the consensus is important if anyone wants to try something like this.
- Whether you put asics, quantum computer or alien technology behind it.... it will never exceed 21mil coins.... I think you can search and find probably 1/3 of that got probably lost.
- recent investment of tesla bringing BTC on it's balance sheet has tied now one of the biggest tech companies it's share value indirectly to bitcoin's value
- microstrategy and other major players have entered the game
- recent paypal acceptance of it
- uber possibly accepting btc
- In zurich, antalya, and other countries you can purchase houses with bitcoin
- mastercard is bringing crypto onto its network
we are in my opinion at the birth of the mass adaptation of crypto, we will go digital one way or another whether we call it bitcoin or something else, but as long every other altcoin's value is indirectly tied to bitcoin, bitcoin sets the rules.
My personal theory is, it will never be used to pay for your pizza anymore...the same way I don't use a gold coin to pay for my pizza. It will become the store of value it already kind of is. The same way gold is finite, so is bitcoin. we as a society give value to whatever we deem valuable. We traded our gold bars in for a slice of a tree with dead people printed on it and the value of the dollar and other currencies are tied in theory to the gold reserves they say they hold on paper. To answer your question about why people get emotional and react emotional... it is because that is where it gets it value because when you look at the technology behind it, there are dozen of other altcoins which are much suited to be used, however, people trust it and that gives it his value.
The day this all breaks down is the day when someone is able to hack/crack it and with the current technology, it will take all the computing power and some good years to break a single wallet for example.
given that moore's law is also reaching its limitation and quantum computing to be used commercially is also at least 10/15 years away. Even then you can simply with cryptography make use of layered security like a vault, in a vault, in a vault making it even for a quantum computer an impossible task to do. Anyone knowing a bit of maths and cryptography can tell you adding just 2/3 layers increased the difficulty of breaking things exponentially.
With regards to the energy consumption,I don't have enough data because we have to compare it's market value/volume against regular fiat and the cost of maintaining, printing fiat. Because BTC has no lobby, has no agenda, has no will, no goal, no owner. The USD has an owner, lobbyist, politics,printing and burning factory..there are so many variables to take into account when you want to express the actual costs of maintaining the USD and my initial guess is, the costs of creating and maintaining btc is nothing compared to something like the USD.
Dark Sky
Banned - leaving fake reviews.
- Apr 3, 2019
- 1,610
- 2,729
I'm not talking about it's downfall today. Nor tomorrow, I'm talking about how it's going to achieve too much adoption before the solution can arrive.
Too much adoption and not enough energy to supply that adoption means the cogs stop spinning no?
We are no where near global adoption yet, probably in the 0.x% still, and yet it requires more energy than the Netherlands.
Who do you think is going to supply double the planets energy once it gets globally adopted? That's a serious question. Because in no way shape or form do I think energy companies can keep up.
IamNRE
Elite Member
- Aug 18, 2010
- 7,164
- 10,717
That makes a lot of sense OP.
And it will only be a decade or so before super computers will be able to hack those puzzles. Then what?
There will probably always be a few people that use it. But I think something else might come along that is cheaper to operate, easier to use and has more function and stability. Then it will be good night.
In the short to medium term - the price will continue to go up though.
And it will only be a decade or so before super computers will be able to hack those puzzles. Then what?
There will probably always be a few people that use it. But I think something else might come along that is cheaper to operate, easier to use and has more function and stability. Then it will be good night.
In the short to medium term - the price will continue to go up though.
D
Deleted member 1333509
Guest
Increase in Bitcoin users since July 2018 until now (~25M -> ~68M, 172%):
https://www.statista.com/statistics/647374/worldwide-blockchain-wallet-users/
Bitcoin's energy consumption increase since July 2018 until now (71.12 TWh -> 76.87 TWh, 8%):
https://digiconomist.net/bitcoin-energy-consumption/https://www.statista.com/statistics/881472/worldwide-bitcoin-energy-consumption/
If the growth of the use of Bitcoin is a problem with relation to energy consumption, why has the consumption of energy by the Bitcoin network plateaued and even gone down periodically during the same time that usage has increase by almost 3X?
Answer: Bitcoin's energy consumption isn't a product of transaction executions or usage. An important thing to understand.
Dark Sky
Banned - leaving fake reviews.
- Apr 3, 2019
- 1,610
- 2,729
Bitcoin is designed to make the puzzle last 10 minutes. You could have the most powerful computer on earth, it's still going to take 10 minutes. The more powerful the computers, the more energy required.
That's literally what this post is about, people will be thinking "lets get more powerful computers and we can win more puzzles" the puzzles then get harder and harder, and all of a sudden more and more people need more powerful computers making the puzzles harder. It's a vicious circle increasing energy usage.
The sad part is, that's the intent. Bitcoin requires a big network to be secure, so it's designed to encourage more and more computing power so no one can takeover the network. Sadly this means more and more energy is needed. Probably more than ever anticipated when bitcoin was created.
NX_NULL
Banned - Multiple Rules Violations
- Dec 31, 2008
- 717
- 931
A) Bitcoin mining devices get stronger and more energy efficient during the time. Compare it with a Pentium 2 cpu. If our current CPU speed was base on that chart we were using 500 MW electricity for each computer
B) Sun is an unlimited energy source, Just make more solar panels with better conversion.
C) Bitcoin is future of currency, How are you going to transfer funds from Earth to Mars or vise versa?
B) Sun is an unlimited energy source, Just make more solar panels with better conversion.
C) Bitcoin is future of currency, How are you going to transfer funds from Earth to Mars or vise versa?
Dark Sky
Banned - leaving fake reviews.
- Apr 3, 2019
- 1,610
- 2,729
D
Deleted member 1333509
Guest
I'm not arguing about the validity of data when the thing you're quoting has the word "estimate" all over it in bold letters.
Believe what you want mate, but as I mentioned to you in another post, you risk looking back at this period of time and wishing your focus was in more appropriate places and that your thinking about all of this was different.
Dark Sky
Banned - leaving fake reviews.
- Apr 3, 2019
- 1,610
- 2,729
Of course it's an estimate? There's no 100% accurate way to measure it, that doesn't mean it's an invalid estimate. Finance sectors use estimates all the time to make economic decisions, and it works because they are good estimates.
I'm not sure why I would risk looking back on things when I buy bitcoin either? This is the reason I look into why it won't work.
In science, you always try to disprove a theory, rather than prove it. Because if you can't disprove someone elses theory, then it's probably the correct theory.
I've not seen anyone offer a solution to the energy requirements needed for global adoption to work, I see a problem, but no solution yet. Therefor as it stands, bitcoin cannot work as a global currency. It's like investing in a business, that has no numbers behind it yet. The product could look great, and it could solve a real problem, but without numbers to back it up, it's purely a gamble. Until someone solves the achilles heel, of it I don't think it will ever get global adoption.
D
Deleted member 1333509
Guest
A good estimate with 400% difference between their actual estimate and the upper bound? Ok.
(Statista is about as reliable as they come with regards to data and stats by the way too).
If you think it won't work as a global currency because of an increase of 0.5% in energy consumption, no probs. I could pick 12 other reasons I think would have significantly more likelihood for preventing Bitcoin from becoming a "global currency" (which it is already btw bro, but I get what you mean).
Anyway, like I said I'm not really a fan of worrying about global warming in general, and even more so in relation to Bitcoin. The environmental harm it does is negligible compared to many other industries. If the fear is damage to the environment, solve the biggest problems first before worrying about Bitcoin... seems reasonable.
Last edited by a moderator:
deal with it
Senior Member
- Sep 30, 2015
- 1,086
- 707
world will just do okay if there is no bitcoin in coinmarketcap page and everyone says fuck this, this shit is too outdated, lets just play this crypto game with better stuffs.
You know what, these motherfuckers won't do it.
At the end of the day, money is just moving from one hand to another, nothing really happening except those project which really do take advantage of blockchain and help making situation better than before.
You know what, these motherfuckers won't do it.
At the end of the day, money is just moving from one hand to another, nothing really happening except those project which really do take advantage of blockchain and help making situation better than before.
Dark Sky
Banned - leaving fake reviews.
- Apr 3, 2019
- 1,610
- 2,729
Why do you think global adoption will only increase energy consumption by 0.5%?
Naughtyfatkid
Senior Member
- Sep 20, 2020
- 922
- 1,367
Very interesting point OP.. But if one country bans it because of it being decentralized or using up too much energy, wont another country will see it as an opportunity and take advantage of it?
D
Deleted member 1333509
Guest
I don't, but currently that's where it's at and the relationship between increased usage and increase energy consumption isn't linear.
I may be wrong but quantum computers could break bitcoin security, there are tons of scientific articles talking about that
Dark Sky
Banned - leaving fake reviews.
- Apr 3, 2019
- 1,610
- 2,729
It's price and energy consumption that are linked, as it becomes worth more, more miners want a bigger slice. More adoption = Higher price.