This fucking country

The problems you are describing are only viable if you are a US citizen, otherwise you have no clue what you are talking about. You can literally pay 0 taxes LEGALLY by incorporating in a jurisdiction that has 0 corporate tax (or very little, less than 5%), 0 dividend tax, 0 capital gains tax, free money movement (like Malta that you described), etc... When it comes to paying personal income taxes every year, you pay only on the salary you give to yourself. If you've never done this before, at least stop giving wrong advice to others.

Yeah but most countries tax you on your worldwide income.

And so say you have a company in a 0% country, and you have money in the company's bank account.

How do you get that money to yourself without paying taxes on it legally?

Im not talking about the salary you'll pay yourself. Im talking about the rest of it.
 
Reducing taxes legally is one thing, doing tax evasion is completely different.

But it's not just about taxes is it, not just about dollars and cents. There's also something to be said about ease of doing business and reporting and bureaucracy. In other words, do you pay 10% tax with minimum hassle required and freedom to use your money as you please, or do you pay 8% with heavy reporting and having a registered company and checks and accountant and collecting bills in order to reduce the taxable amount and your money locked in company bank account which you can't spend freely etc?

I'd say 10% with peace of mind all the way.

Anyway...


I agree. Also, my shot at Nomadcapitalist wasn't directed at you. As I said earlier, they can be a good source of inspiration, just take what they say with a grain of salt.

The problems you are describing are only viable if you are a US citizen, otherwise you have no clue what you are talking about. You can literally pay 0 taxes LEGALLY by incorporating in a jurisdiction that has 0 corporate tax (or very little, less than 5%), 0 dividend tax, 0 capital gains tax, free money movement (like Malta that you described), etc... When it comes to paying personal income taxes every year, you pay only on the salary you give to yourself. If you've never done this before, at least stop giving wrong advice to others.

Sure it's possible, if you have the money to pay for a local manager and office and can make it plausible to your tax man that you aren't involved in running the company from home. Big IF, though.
 
I agree. Also, my shot at Nomadcapitalist wasn't directed at you. As I said earlier, they can be a good source of inspiration, just take what they say with a grain of salt.



Sure it's possible, if you have the money to pay for a local manager and office and can make it plausible to your tax man that you aren't involved in running the company from home. Big IF, though.

I gotta give the nomadcapitalist some props.

In the past couple of days his content really gave me that push to consider if i have any way to get a second citizenship, and then i found out that i do, and it turns out its in a country that has a wonferful tax system for my taste.

So.. props given :)
 
Yeah but most countries tax you on your worldwide income.

And so say you have a company in a 0% country, and you have money in the company's bank account.

How do you get that money to yourself without paying taxes on it legally?

Im not talking about the salary you'll pay yourself. Im talking about the rest of it.

You build up the savings and move there and become a tax resident to pay yourself, while paying yourself a smaller salary or smaller dividends until you do so.

A lot of countries don't tax all worldwide income, many will exempt foreign real estate earnings from taxes.
 
You build up the savings and move there and become a tax resident to pay yourself, while paying yourself a smaller salary or smaller dividends until you do so.

A lot of countries don't tax all worldwide income, many will exempt foreign real estate earnings from taxes.

I guess the best option is something like Dubai, where you pay no taxes. Problem is the cost of life there is expensive.

Anyway moving to a low or no corporate and/or personal income tax is best, if you can and want to.

However, you may not have a lot of choices.

How about having your company in one country with low or no corporate tax, and living and being a tax resident in a country with low or no personal income tax.

So your company is not taxed or taxed very little, and then getting the money under your pillow :p is not taxed or taxed very little. Then you win, no?
 
I guess the best option is something like Dubai, where you pay no taxes. Problem is the cost of life there is expensive.

Anyway moving to a low or no corporate and/or personal income tax is best, if you can and want to.

However, you may not have a lot of choices.

How about having your company in one country with low or no corporate tax, and living and being a tax resident in a country with low or no personal income tax.

So your company is not taxed or taxed very little, and then getting the money under your pillow :p is not taxed or taxed very little. Then you win, no?

What's a low tax country?

Even in the U.S. its possible to have an effective tax rate of 6.5% without even factoring in a lifestyle business.
 
What's a low tax country?

Even in the U.S. its possible to have an effective tax rate of 6.5% without even factoring in a lifestyle business.

Low tax is no tax, anything other than that is deeply offensive!

Okay, now back to reality...

Low tax to me is not a cent over 10%.

Yeah you throw out 6.5% but I don't believe you. I bet my ass that to get the 6.5% you have to be earning bajillions, and then you have to go through so much beurocracy that you drop dead at the age of 11 from the stress.

Because I don't just calculate tax. Oh that's another thing you probably didn't include in the 6.5%. What about health and pension contributions? That's tax too! You can say it's not, but I disagree. What about your "company bank account" and your accountant fees and...

No, fuck that. 10%, not a cent over that, and get out of my face with your bureaucracy and paperwork and cancer :)
 
Yeah but most countries tax you on your worldwide income.

And so say you have a company in a 0% country, and you have money in the company's bank account.

How do you get that money to yourself without paying taxes on it legally?

Im not talking about the salary you'll pay yourself. Im talking about the rest of it.

You don't. You keep that money in your company's bank account. If you need to buy something, do it through the company. If you need to buy something pricey (like a house) or invest, you transfer that money to an investment corp and buy through that. And of course, you also use credit - use the bank to your advantage. The only reason you withdraw is in case of emergencies, especially medical. But when life is at risk, I think we all agree taxes is the last thing to worry about.

And then there is 1 more option. At a certain point in time, after the company has accumulated quite a lot of cash, you withdraw it all as a dividend (0% tax). Then, in order to avoid personal income taxes in your home country, you make sure that during this year (that you will do the withdrawal), you stay less than 180 days (6 months) in your home country.

So, here is a scenario. Let's say your corp makes $240k/year. You pay $40k to yourself and keep the $200k in your account. You do this for, let's say 3 years, and then when time comes to withdraw and pay taxes, you stay 6 months in your home country and 6 months in other countries. You are NOT LEGALLY obligated to pay any taxes if you are not a resident there. You might be saying at the moment that it's too much hassle, but I would rather travel for 6 months every X years and save myself hundreds of thousands of dollars (or even millions depending on how much you make) than pay taxes to a corrupt government.

Of course, you could use the 180 days loophole to withdraw at any time you want as long as you don't stay put in 1 country for more than 6 months. But that's something that most people wouldn't do, including me, especially if you have a family. Hence why the option above - every X years, it will be more like a vacation rather than a "job" to save taxes. But personally, I do neither of these. I just know these options exist as I had a long conversation with my lawyer about that.

I prefer doing option 1, where I keep my money in my corps' bank accounts and move them freely between my assets. I buy property (houses/cars) through my real estate corp and all my expenses are paid for by the corp.

Sure it's possible, if you have the money to pay for a local manager and office and can make it plausible to your tax man that you aren't involved in running the company from home. Big IF, though.

What the hell are you talking about? The local manager and office don't cost more than $500 - 700 / year, which is a "parking ticket" fee. Make it plausible to your tax man?! Have you ever done this before? You don't need to make anything plausible, nobody cares. These jurisdictions exist for a reason. Your lawyer will take care of everything, all you have to do is sign.

Actually, opening the business and paying taxes is the easiest part, which you can even do it remotely. Opening the bank account is much harder and you will need to "lie" a bit during the interview with the bank so they let you in. FYI, the banks also know you are coming there to avoid taxes and couldn't care less (more money for them), but at the same time, they have to "keep up" appearances, which is why they put you through an interview before opening your account.
 
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You don't. You keep that money in your company's bank account. If you need to buy something, do it through the company. If you need to buy something pricey (like a house) or invest, you transfer that money to an investment corp and buy through that. And of course, you also use credit - use the bank to your advantage. The only reason you withdraw is in case of emergencies, especially medical. But when life is at risk, I think we all agree taxes is the last thing to worry about.

And then there is 1 more option. At a certain point in time, after the company has accumulated quite a lot of cash, you withdraw it all as a dividend (0% tax). Then, in order to avoid personal income taxes in your home country, you make sure that during this year (that you will do the withdrawal), you stay less than 180 days (6 months) in your home country.

So, here is a scenario. Let's say your corp makes $240k/year. You pay $40k to yourself and keep the $200k in your account. You do this for, let's say 3 years, and then when time comes to withdraw and pay taxes, you stay 6 months in your home country and 6 months in other countries. You are NOT LEGALLY obligated to pay any taxes if you are not a resident there. You might be saying at the moment that it's too much hassle, but I would rather travel for 6 months every X years and save myself hundreds of thousands of dollars (or even millions depending on how much you make) than pay taxes to a corrupt government.

Of course, you could use the 180 days loophole to withdraw at any time you want as long as you don't stay put in 1 country for more than 6 months. But that's something that most people wouldn't do, including me, especially if you have a family. Hence why the option above - every X years, it will be more like a vacation rather than a "job" to save taxes. But personally, I do neither of these. I just know these options exist as I had a long conversation with my lawyer about that.

I prefer doing option 1, where I keep my money in my corps' bank accounts and move them freely between my assets. I buy property (houses/cars) through my real estate corp and all my expenses are paid for by the corp.



What the hell are you talking about? The local manager and office don't cost more than $500 - 700 / year, which is a "parking ticket" fee. Make it plausible to your tax man?! Have you ever done this before? You don't need to make anything plausible, nobody cares. These jurisdictions exist for a reason. Your lawyer will take care of everything, all you have to do is sign.

Actually, opening the business and paying taxes is the easiest part, which you can even do it remotely. Opening the bank account is much harder and you will need to "lie" a bit during the interview with the bank so they let you in. FYI, the banks also know you are coming there to avoid taxes and don't care, but at the same time, they have to "keep up" appearances, which is why they put you through an interview before opening your account.

Thank you for the information, I appreciate it.

But I see holes in what you said and I think it relies far too much on hope. The moment the government looks into you, you're getting fucked.

For example, you don't necessarily stop being a tax resident if you're not in the country for more than 183 days. They can claim your center of life is in your country (family, kids, real estate) and still tax your shit. I guess the specifics of this depend on the country, and whether it's enforced at all, but it's valid.

I believe that spending the offshore company money for personal use is still illegal as far the government is concerned. They're unlikely to catch you, but you are breaking the law until and unless you bring the money in the country and pay tax on it and then use it for personal use.

Oh and if you're operating the offshore company from your home country - like for example an internet freelancer would do - then most countries will consider your company as a local company and demand you pay those corporate taxes. Of course you can go offshore where they don't share info, for now, but you're again breaking the law as far as your country is concerned.

Anyway what you said is valid and you're pretty safe doing it. But if "they" take a good look at you, you're going down. They can bury you (of course, depending on the country in which you actually live and are a tax resident of).

I'm no expert, so feel free to, you know, call what I said fucking stupid and all that, but I believe I'm correct. If you wanna be 99.9% legit (maybe you hide a monero or two :p) then you can't do the things you say just like that.
 
The problems you are describing are only viable if you are a US citizen, otherwise you have no clue what you are talking about. You can literally pay 0 taxes LEGALLY by incorporating in a jurisdiction that has 0 corporate tax (or very little, less than 5%), 0 dividend tax, 0 capital gains tax, free money movement (like Malta that you described), etc... When it comes to paying personal income taxes every year, you pay only on the salary you give to yourself. If you've never done this before, at least stop giving wrong advice to others.
What, you think you're an international tax guru now? Learn to read English to a good enough standard to understand what I've said before throwing in a smart comment.

I was speaking specifically about personal income tax, which you still will have to worry about paying at your local rate in many cases even if you incorporate in a tax haven and significantly reduce your corp tax.

You've essentially just said the exact same thing I said, again, in a different way.

The problems you are describing are only viable if you are a US citizen
No they aren't. In many countries you will be liable to pay personal tax in whichever place you live. ie. someone in the UK can setup a company in a Caribbean tax haven, pay themselves a dividend to their UK bank account, and be liable at UK personal tax rates on those dividends.

In fact in many jurisdictions, even if your company is registered in a different jurisdiction, the "management" of the company can be designated where the director(s) are actually living, and especially in situations without tax treaties you can open yourself up to paying corp tax in your locality even with the company itself registered in a different jurisdiction that has significantly lower tax.

You can literally pay 0 taxes LEGALLY by incorporating in a jurisdiction that has 0 corporate tax
Yeah, only on corp tax though, not personal unless you move to Dubai, for example, and then you'll pay 0% corp and 0% personal. That's exactly what I was saying in the first place, but your understanding of English has let you down and you jumped the gun.

I've reduced my total tax (corp and personal) to less than 3%, LEGALLY (as you put it), and have companies in a handful of different havens.. I think I've got a pretty good idea what I'm talking about buddy.

Then, in order to avoid personal income taxes in your home country, you make sure that during this year (that you will do the withdrawal), you stay less than 180 days (6 months) in your home country.
Ahhhh.. so the whole crux of your argument for how you can avoid high personal income tax in your home country rests on not staying in your home country for more than 6months. Well, for a start, a lot of people can't do that. It's kind of dumb to expect people to leave their country for 6 months every year.

Secondly though, there are quite a few countries where you don't relinquish your tax residency just by being out of the country for more than 6 months and will still be liable. US, Australia, and more.

You don't. You keep that money in your company's bank account. If you need to buy something, do it through the company.

Right, except that paying for things with your company card to avoid personal tax in your home country might sound like a cute idea, but you need food every day, you need to pay rent, you need to pay for a million things it's not practical to be doing that long term.

Also, in a lot of cases if you get caught doing that and paying for groceries with you company card then you'll be done for tax EVASION in your home country.. Smooth move.

Sounds like you're the one that doesn't know what the fuck they're talking about.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/stephe...asion-for-paying-personal-expenses-from-firm/
Lucky we had you here to straighten us out so we didn't give any more "wrong advice to others". At least if you're going to be a jackass, understand the basic principles of what you're talking about.
 
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hahaha cute.

Where I live (Venezuela)...
  • The minimum wage is <$10 per month
  • Highest inflation rate in the world - Over 3,000% annually
  • Despite having the biggest oil reserves in the world, people have to wait in line with their cars for 12-24+ hours to get a full tank of gas
  • Despite having one of the biggest natural gas reserves in the world, half the country don´t have access to domestic gas
  • From the past 5+ years, we´ve suffered one of our worse electrical crises in our history. In march 7th 2019, we went for 110 hours straight without power. A few days later, 60+ hours. And, ever since we experience power shortages every single day and we spend anywhere between 2 to 8 hours a day without electricity
  • This year marks 10 years straight with at least 20,000 murders
  • And we also have one of the worse and slowest internet connections in the world (According to speedtest.net)
And, I can go on and on but these are by far our biggest issues we face every single day.

Do you know where I can find people from venezuela to hire? I could easily pay a multiple of those wages for writers, devs, seo, designers, managers... I searched earlier for people in venezuela and they requested +1000usd salaries...
 
What the hell are you talking about? The local manager and office don't cost more than $500 - 700 / year, which is a "parking ticket" fee. Make it plausible to your tax man?! Have you ever done this before? You don't need to make anything plausible, nobody cares. These jurisdictions exist for a reason. Your lawyer will take care of everything, all you have to do is sign.

Actually, opening the business and paying taxes is the easiest part, which you can even do it remotely. Opening the bank account is much harder and you will need to "lie" a bit during the interview with the bank so they let you in. FYI, the banks also know you are coming there to avoid taxes and couldn't care less (more money for them), but at the same time, they have to "keep up" appearances, which is why they put you through an interview before opening your account.

Sorry mate, either you live in a banana republic with a highly ineffective public administration or you are the one who doesn't know what you are talking about.

A NOMINEE manager and a VIRTUAL office cost $500 a year, but that's not even close to being enough for the tax man. Your company will be a tax resident of your country of residency and you will gain nothing tax-wise.

It was written a thousand times, but I will explain it again. If you don't have NEXUS in the country where you establish your offshore company, it will be a tax resident of your country of residency.

Nexus means a REAL office with water, electricity, internet, and telephone bills plus employees, at least a REAL manager who is operating the company at the place it is registered. You can't be managing the company from abroad, and if you do, better hide it very well in case of an audit. Also, developed countries want to have a good reason why you have an offshore company before they accept it and don't try to tax it anyway. You can't just say that you incorporated there because the taxes are lower, you must give them a valid business-related reason.

You will have a hard time getting all that for $700 a MONTH, even if you hire a part-time manager and a one-room office in a dumpster country, but even then, the country will probably not be very attractive concerning the tax rates, and such a setup will only be accepted if your company is in its early stages. Later, you need to pay a full-time manager and more employees, depending on your turnover.

Everyone can open a company with a few clicks online, and if you don't get a bank account, you can often use EMIs, but if you don't build proper nexus, it's tax fraud, and the risk of getting caught is higher than ever.

Offshore companies can still be used for various reasons (I use them too), but you have to be smart about it. It's not 1990 anymore when you could just open a shelf company and avoid paying taxes at home.
 
Sorry mate, either you live in a banana republic with a highly ineffective public administration or you are the one who doesn't know what you are talking about.

A NOMINEE manager and a VIRTUAL office cost $500 a year, but that's not even close to being enough for the tax man. Your company will be a tax resident of your country of residency and you will gain nothing tax-wise.

It was written a thousand times, but I will explain it again. If you don't have NEXUS in the country where you establish your offshore company, it will be a tax resident of your country of residency.

Nexus means a REAL office with water, electricity, internet, and telephone bills plus employees, at least a REAL manager who is operating the company at the place it is registered. You can't be managing the company from abroad, and if you do, better hide it very well in case of an audit. Also, developed countries want to have a good reason why you have an offshore company before they accept it and don't try to tax it anyway. You can't just say that you incorporated there because the taxes are lower, you must give them a valid business-related reason.

You will have a hard time getting all that for $700 a MONTH, even if you hire a part-time manager and a one-room office in a dumpster country, but even then, the country will probably not be very attractive concerning the tax rates, and such a setup will only be accepted if your company is in its early stages. Later, you need to pay a full-time manager and more employees, depending on your turnover.

Everyone can open a company with a few clicks online, and if you don't get a bank account, you can often use EMIs, but if you don't build proper nexus, it's tax fraud, and the risk of getting caught is higher than ever.

Offshore companies can still be used for various reasons (I use them too), but you have to be smart about it. It's not 1990 anymore when you could just open a shelf company and avoid paying taxes at home.

You use offshore companies? Criminal confirmed! :D :D :D
 
taxes are a nightmare in my country
 
Do you know where I can find people from venezuela to hire? I could easily pay a multiple of those wages for writers, devs, seo, designers, managers... I searched earlier for people in venezuela and they requested +1000usd salaries...
I am actually a Top-Rated freelancer on Upwork offering SEO related services and, my cousin works for me as a writer. She´s a very talented writer.
 
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