[Journey] Building an iOS & Android App Empire

[nakamura]

Update:

Of course, the guy who removed my app didn't reply. I am sending a new appeal right away. It is so absurd. They remove the app for a ridiculous reason, which was obviously not against their policies. Then, I am sending an appeal and what are they doing? They just don't answer. LOL. There is so much wrong with it.

Who is this?! What do they want?!

Anyway, Google is forcing me to go underground. They force me to create several Admob and Play Store accounts, just so I can protect myself from absurd suspension. I don't want this Google, why are you forcing me?

When injustice becomes justice, resistance becomes a duty!

I uploaded another iOS app and work on two other Android apps today. Now I have 4 developer accounts. I try to upload 3 apps max. to them...and then just set and forget.

The Google Play Store algorithm prevents new apps from ranking. Its like a shadowban/sandbox/however you wanna call it. I am tracking the rankings of the apps and it takes several weeks until their ranking starts to increase properly. My guess is they want people to spend money for advertising first. Google hates organic traffic, because they don't earn money from it.

 

[nakamura]

Update:

I uploaded most of the apps. Tomorrow I will two other apps. One for iOS and another one for Android.

At the moment there are several apps online:

Android: 5 live (+ 1 in review)
iOS: 2 (soon to be more(

For ads/monetization I am using:

- Facebook Audience Network (Fill rate just around 75%)
- Unity Ads (just 3 apps at the moment)
- Admob (will use it for all my newer apps because ecpm and fill rate is best)

Getting installs

Initially, I wanted to try 3 different ad providers: Adwords, Facebook ads and Tik Tok ads. However, Tik Tok just didn't activate my business/ads account. So I stuck with Adwords and FB.

First I tried Facebook and I spent around $30. Unfortunately, I could only track the clicks, but not the installs. From what I saw I didn't get many installs from FB, so I stopped the campaign and moved on to Adwords.

Adwords is working much better even tho I can't choose the audience (no keywords, etc.) for the App Promotion campaign. However, I can fully see who downloaded the app, who clicked on it, the CTR, etc. At the moment I pay $0,10 per install, which is not too bad I guess. First I set it to $5 per day to test the different ad groups and so on. After this, I will optimize and scale it.

Organic downloads are almost 0 for new apps. Google is "shadow banning" / "sandboxing" new apps. From my experience, it takes 2-3 weeks until organic traffic is rising and rankings start to kick in. So I will run these ad campaigns to get at least 50 installs per day for around 2 weeks. I will keep you guys updated with this one.

Oh! and about the removal/suspension of the other app before: I didn't get any reply!

Here is my original initial appeal:

"Hello Google Play Team,

I can understand you are busy at these times, but it has been 7 days since I sent the appeal. I didn't hear back from you.

I would like to ask if you can specify why the application violated the policy. I was reading the policy carefully.

It says "We don’t allow apps that interfere with, disrupt, damage, or access in an unauthorized manner the user’s device, other devices or computers, servers, networks, application programming interfaces (APIs), or services, including but not limited to other apps on the device, any Google service, or an authorized carrier’s network."

My app has been suspended without any prior warning because it had an outgoing link to a website. This website doesn't offer any service. It doesn't damage or disrupt the device. It is just filled with helpful content. The hyperlink itself is clearly visible as a link. It doesn't open unauthorized.

In my opinion, the suspension was too harsh and not justified. Please consider reinstating it."

So basically these guys just suspended my app for a ridiculous reason and now they are ghosting me. LOL. Or maybe they are investigating? Or maybe it is too embarrassing for them? No idea.

 

[Deleted member 1207404]

What are your earnings? You stopped updating it.

 

[nakamura]

What are your earnings? You stopped updating it.

I don't check It every day, because its not so important to me now. I just focus on making the apps and uploading them. This also means: Writing descriptions, making screenshots, translating the description, adding them all to the stores, etc. the whole process takes a lot of time.

Altogether it is around $25 per day so far. That's really less, but it should become more than $70 per day once the rankings start to kick in. Organic downloads are almost 0 for most of the apps now.

 

[rajkumar31]

Wow that's a good progress. Good luck on your journey. I'll be following.

 

[nakamura]

Google answered the appeal!

"Hi developers at XYZ,
Thank you for your patience.

Due to adjusted work schedules at this time, we are currently experiencing longer than usual process times and we appreciate your understanding.
Status of app XYZ: Suspended from Google Play due to policy violation
I’ve reviewed your appeal request and found that your app still violates Google Play Policy.
During review, we found that your app violates the Device and Network Abuse policy, section 4.8 and 4.9 of the Developer Distribution Agreement (DDA):

• We don’t allow apps that interfere with, disrupt, damage, or access in an unauthorized manner the user’s device, other devices or computers, servers, networks, application programming interfaces (APIs), or services, including but not limited to other apps on the device, any Google service, or an authorized carrier’s network.

You can read through the Device and Network Abuse policy and sections 4.8 and 4.9 of the Developer Distribution Agreement for more details.
For example, your app currently contains hacking tools.
Please note that suspensions count as strikes against the good standing of your Google Play Developer account. Egregious or multiple policy violations can result in suspension, as can repeated app rejections or removals.
If your developer credentials are still in good standing with Google Play and if your app allows for it, you can publish a new compliant version of the app by following these steps:

1. Make the necessary changes to your app to address the issue described above, if possible.
2. Double check that your app complies with all other Developer Program Policies. Additional enforcement could occur if there are further policy violations.
3. Sign in to your Play Console and upload a new app using a new package name and a new app name.

We thank you again for your patience while we reviewed your issue."

It is just an automated answer. And guys...I asked if they could SPECIFY and they basically just sent the same. BUT: They write "For example, your app currently contains hacking tools." Which is totally wrong. Now I will send an appeal again and ask if they could show me the "hacking tool". Wtf?! Basically there was just ONE HYPERLINK to a website, which is full of text. Wtf?!

It is absolutely ridiculous how they just send an automated answer and make assumptions without any evidence, they didn't reply any of my questions. What hacking tool?! They suspended the app and sent me a screenshot of a hyperlink, wtf?

 

[Shiv659]

Nice thread... what kind of apps you make? niche?

 

[sisusisu]

Can you check whether the flutter library itself have any issues with Google playstore apps

 

[nakamura]

Lol, Google is a real mess. I just confirmed my bank account on one of the Admob accounts and guess what happened? Just a minute later the "ad limit" came back. And when I click on the ad limit it says "invalid traffic concern" and the date says August 2020. So basically they removed the ad limit and just two weeks later they added it again with the same old date. Wtf is going on with this company? Why would they do this?

They limit Admob/Adsense accounts without proper reason and say it takes less than 30 days, but in fact, it takes several months. They remove the limit and suddenly they add the old limit again. Why?

The same goes for the developer account: Apps are getting deleted for a ridiculous reasons, which is just NOT true. They randomly send me a screenshot of a hyperlink and then say it is against their policies. Wtf? And when I send an appeal and ask to specify it, they just start talking about "hacking tools", even tho there is no tool, just plain text. What do they even mean?

It just seems to me they want to prevent people to build a business. They constantly throw stones at you or give you a burden. I just don't understand why would they do this? I am making a normal, no fraud, no copyrighted stuff or anything and they randomly suspends the app.

And I can tell you guys this: It was never about the policy why they removed my app. Why? Because it was just ONE hyperlink. I could have to remove it within one minute. They could have just taken the app offline until I fix it, but they didn't. They directly SUSPENDED the app without ANY chance to make it right. This is why I think someone targeted the app to take it down.

So my advice for everyone who is reading this: NEVER rely on Google alone. Use mediation (not the admob mediation!). Instead use Appodeal or another one. Then add several ad networks like Facebook, Unity Ads and also Admob, so you are always safe.

 

[BHPhil]

Always nice to see some german guys doing journeys here. I wish you all the best for this and I´m sure you will sooner or later have your empire built.

You seem to have learned to create mobile apps pretty quickly. Did you have some previous coding experience or are you a genius? I always have the impression you need a lot of time (at least a year)
to become decent at programming and a lot longer to become quite good. All the frameworks, backend stuff etc. but maybe I didn´t give it enough time and effort. Did you solely focus on learning programming fulltime or did you learn on the side? I guess you did it on the side since you seem to have a lot of experience in marketing.

Anyway I pull my hat for what you have already accomplished.

On a side note: I see you have troubles with google since you wrote several post about that. Did you think about ignoring the Play Store for the time being and focus on the Apple Store? Might be an option especially since you wanted to be high quality/white hat but google "forces" you to go BH and Apple loves high quality stuff as you said yourself.

Greetings

 

[nakamura]

Always nice to see some german guys doing journeys here. I wish you all the best for this and I´m sure you will sooner or later have your empire built.

You seem to have learned to create mobile apps pretty quickly. Did you have some previous coding experience or are you a genius? I always have the impression you need a lot of time (at least a year)
to become decent at programming and a lot longer to become quite good. All the frameworks, backend stuff etc. but maybe I didn´t give it enough time and effort. Did you solely focus on learning programming fulltime or did you learn on the side? I guess you did it on the side since you seem to have a lot of experience in marketing.

Anyway I pull my hat for what you have already accomplished.

On a side note: I see you have troubles with google since you wrote several post about that. Did you think about ignoring the Play Store for the time being and focus on the Apple Store? Might be an option especially since you wanted to be high quality/white hat but google "forces" you to go BH and Apple loves high quality stuff as you said yourself.

Greetings

No real coding experience before, but I knew html, css and some javascript before. Learning it was not so difficult. It is just important you understand the structure, the commands and the general idea of the coding language. YouTube is full of videos and tutorials if you want to start. Flutter is quite easy to learn and its modern. It took me around 2 months to get really started. Last year I was already thinking about joining the app business, but when I checked the videos etc. I thought "Holy shit, how am I able to learn this"...its just a matter of discipline and motivation in the end...

Yes, in my opinion Apple is way more consistent. They care about the developers much more. For Google sometimes I have the impression they have a zero tolerance and they in a war against developers. Like they would just remove apps or suspend whole accounts without any warning...

 

[nakamura]

Update

I didn't do much the last few days, because I went to make a visa for Thailand, had to book flights, quarantine hotel and all those stuff. So I am back in Thailand next month.

For Google: There is something "funny" happening on my Google Admob account. It got limited again (as I wrote before) but the fillrate is still 100% and the date of when the ad limits took actions always changes. Last week it was 17th August now it is 24th August. It changes every day. Lol. Is this a bug? If yes, I can't report it to anyone, because there is simply NO SUPPORT.

For Ads: I am using Google Adwords for app-installs for one of my apps. Budget is just 8€ per day, but thats fine for me. The CPI (costs per install) is 0,08€. So it gives me around 80-120 downloads per day. Sometimes it exceeds the 8€ limit.

As I said before I was running Facebook ads, but they didn't convert so well for me. Also, I wanted to TikTok ads, but they didn't activate my account and I never heard back from them. It is a pity, but I think it would convert even less than FB.

What else I tried was Apple Ads. Showing ads within the App Store! I had no experience with this before, but it is actually easy to use...and guess what? The average CPI is 1,45€! Crazy huh? However, I just put a budget for 30€ per month to check how it works out. So I won't get that much downloads.

Then there something else I saw on Apple: Some people actually bought in-app purchases! I made around $50 from in-app purchases in the last few days.

Now I integrated Firebase, so I can track conversion on my iOS app. After everything is done I will use Adwords to buy app installs.

Earnings: Around $20-30 per day. Since I am using 3 different ad networks I always have to check all of them. Once the apps start to rank the earnings will increase.

Btw. I saw something interesting on Appodeal, which made me wonder. Fill rate for some apps is really low like 50%. However, when I check the apps in the specific ad networks like Unity it shows a 100% fillrate. Kinda confusing for me. Now I will sign up for some more ad networks...hopefully the fillrate gets higher then. I am just afraid I am losing money...if the fill rate is 50% I am losing half of the earnings and this wouldn't be cool.

 

[nakamura]

Time for an update:

Earnings have been around $20-30 in advertising per day. On the App Store I got some more in-app purchases. In total it was around $60 for app-purchases for November.

Since Google Admob removed the ad limit (took 2-3 weeks) from one of my accounts, I updated one app from Appodeal to Admob (it was running with Unity and Facebook) and what can I say? The eCpm jumped from around $3-4 to $7-8.

Usually Facebook Audience Network is fine, but the fill rate has been 70% for me for most of the time. This already means: 30% less income plus: eCpm is a bit lower than for Admob. Especially for iOS. The eCPM for the iOS apps have been around $1.50 which is really low.

I never implemented Unity ads in one app alone, always used it with mediaten/appodeal, therefore I can't really judge it. But from what I see the eCPM is fine and the fill rate has been 100% (I didn't send to many requests tho).

Appodeal: Thats something weird. I have the feeling I am earning much less with Appodeal, than what I would earn from Google Admob alone. Mostly it shows me a 50-60% fill rate even tho I added 3-4 ad networks. However, in the ad networks themselves they show me a 100% fill rate.

So, you guys know I don't really like Google Admob, because they are limit accounts and do whatever they wanna do, but honestly: The eCPM is the best. The fill rate is the best. Absolutely no doubt.

About the Apps:

No app or account has been removed since my last update. I will upload another Android app later today. Also, I will make another iOS app. I will monetize both with Google Admob only (for now). I should scale it up and upload more and more apps.

Also:

I am thinking about upload my Android apps to different stores: Huawei App Gallery, Amazon App Store, Samsung Store for example. Just giving it a try.

 

[WarlordYT]

Shit happened with me bro from november end and today start of december i got message "suspended by google" for impersonation even though i created the logos my self... appeal wont do shit they send a bot reply and u r correct about the sandbox period app is basically dead for 2-3 weeks

 

[Deleted member 1207404]

Shit happened with me bro from november end and today start of december i got message "suspended by google" for impersonation even though i created the logos my self... appeal wont do shit they send a bot reply and u r correct about the sandbox period app is basically dead for 2-3 weeks

Did they suspend your app or your account?

 

[WarlordYT]

Did they suspend your app or your account?

2 apps suspended and 1 game

 

[Deleted member 1207404]

2 apps suspended and 1 game

So you still have your account?

 

[WarlordYT]

So you still have your account?

Yup , it takes 3 suspends to termination of account , i have currently 2 acc running

 

[Deleted member 1207404]

Yup , it takes 3 suspends to termination of account , i have currently 2 acc running

Were you using reskinned apps?

 

[nakamura]

Shit happened with me bro from november end and today start of december i got message "suspended by google" for impersonation even though i created the logos my self... appeal wont do shit they send a bot reply and u r correct about the sandbox period app is basically dead for 2-3 weeks

So you uploaded someone else's app and just changed the logo?

Google didn't even reply my 2nd appeal. Just an automated copy paste message, after this no reply. I just hope there will be serious competition to the Google Play Store.