AMA about PBNs (setup, footprints, things to avoid, et al.)

[janist]

Should PBNs be used for a new money site ? Or should one build other strong links for the first few months before going for a PBN link strategy ?

Absolutely. PBNs work incredibly well to pass instant authority and get your site off the ground. Obviously it never hurts to hit your site with other strong links from the get-go like guest posts, link inserts, other digital outreach (PR pieces, guestographics), editorials or brand mentions.

 

[geneticwaste]

A dedicated IP address is the one only you can use. A dedicated IP address full of other users would make it a shared IP address, don’t you think?

Looks like I did not understand it correctly. I thought you own dedicated IP's, but multiple of your customers host their PBN's on such an IP.
If it's 1 dedicated IP = 1 PBN, than that's a whole other story.

Sorry, I didn't mean to hijack this thread.

 

[asker1]

How long does it take in your experience to see the full effect of a new PBN link?

 

[janist]

How long does it take in your experience to see the full effect of a new PBN link?

PBN links can take some time to show effect. We always tell our clients that they can expect to see initital movements 4-8 weeks after all links have been indexed. The results are pretty gradual (especially for new sites), but solidify over time. If you build some tier 2 links to your PBNs the results are usually faster, but that's to be expected.

Realistically you should expect 1-3 months to see spikes, maybe less for sites that already rank pretty well and have a decent link profile already and more for completely new sites without any baseline links / rankings.

 

[asker1]

Do you have any idea what could be the issue here:

200 PBN sites, niche specific, all with OBL = 1 (well +1 authority link mostly)
Previously they have boosted the main money site really well, but I started to mess with the existing anchor texts. For a short-while it worked pretty well. Then the money site lost really a lot in the serps.
Tried to change the anchor texts to brand and naked ones, then to all unique ones etc. - no real effect on the positions.
No penalty, ban etc. but perhaps the domain has some hidden penalty perhaps?

So I do have an alternative money domain with few links in the same niche and I have started to change the existing links from the PBNs to point to this new domain.
After changing 34 PBN links over the last 2 months to point to this new domain it made barely any difference. Many of those links are not even indexed, but still, some already are.

What could be the issue? Does it need just more time?

Non English site. This time I choose a variety of exact anchor texts (my competitors are only using those). The PBNs are ranking incredibly well by themselves (some are like on page 3-4 for very competitive words), but overall they have few content etc. and I changed like 30-40 words when I have changed the link to point to the new money page.

It is like my links are having no effect at all. But the PBNs are ranking well and are not banned. What could be the issue here?

 

[janist]

Do you have any idea what could be the issue here:

200 PBN sites, niche specific, all with OBL = 1 (well +1 authority link mostly)
Previously they have boosted the main money site really well, but I started to mess with the existing anchor texts. For a short-while it worked pretty well. Then the money site lost really a lot in the serps.
Tried to change the anchor texts to brand and naked ones, then to all unique ones etc. - no real effect on the positions.
No penalty, ban etc. but perhaps the domain has some hidden penalty perhaps?

So I do have an alternative money domain with few links in the same niche and I have started to change the existing links from the PBNs to point to this new domain.
After changing 34 PBN links over the last 2 months to point to this new domain it made barely any difference. Many of those links are not even indexed, but still, some already are.

What could be the issue? Does it need just more time?

Non English site. This time I choose a variety of exact anchor texts (my competitors are only using those). The PBNs are ranking incredibly well by themselves (some are like on page 3-4 for very competitive words), but overall they have few content etc. and I changed like 30-40 words when I have changed the link to point to the new money page.

It is like my links are having no effect at all. But the PBNs are ranking well and are not banned. What could be the issue here?

Hard to say without knowing the site and the PBNs. If all PBNs + their content are indexed, have a clean history and the site is well optimized for the respective keywords, it could be algorithmic. Feel free to send me the site to check.

 

[asker1]

Will PM you shortly. Thanks.

 

[WorkingNow]

First off thanks for the post it's super informative and adds a ton of value.

Some quick questions after reading through your previous posts and learning tons.

1. I know you touched on using brokers/agents for acquiring domains, can you point to any reputable/trustworthy ones here or via dm.

2. For T2 links do you link to your PBN's with these to power them up? I'm actually still not super clear on what constitutes a T2 link and how to properly use them. I've always considered web2's under this umbrella. What's your take on it.

3. Do you offer private 1 on 1 consultant services?

Thanks again for everything you've posted here this far it's exactly what I was looking for.

 

[janist]

First off thanks for the post it's super informative and adds a ton of value.

Some quick questions after reading through your previous posts and learning tons.

1. I know you touched on using brokers/agents for acquiring domains, can you point to any reputable/trustworthy ones here or via dm.

2. For T2 links do you link to your PBN's with these to power them up? I'm actually still not super clear on what constitutes a T2 link and how to properly use them. I've always considered web2's under this umbrella. What's your take on it.

3. Do you offer private 1 on 1 consultant services?

Thanks again for everything you've posted here this far it's exactly what I was looking for.

1. From the BHW providers: @Nargil has some decent domains at lower end of the cost-curve. I'll pm you some more.

2. Yes, to power them up. We usually use static rental links, low-cost link insertions or guest posts and sometime crowd links for this. Typically going for DR20+ with decent link profiles. T2 PBNs can work too.

The link juice pyramid explained:

• Tier 1 Links: Pointing directly at your website
• Tier 2 Links: Pointing to your tier 1 links
• Tier 3 Links: Pointing to your tier 2 links

Let's say you purchase or build a few premium PBN posts on authority domains with a link to your money site. In turn, you link to those PBNs in order to pass additional link juice through tier 1 making the backlinks to your money site even stronger. You can even go a level deeper, but the cost-effect-ratio diminishes the lower you go. We rarely use tier 3 links anymore.

Hope that helps?

 

[sashilover]

I have a serious question regarding the usage of PBNs, currently I have 40+ PBN using auction domains, each of them has 200+ RD, and what I have done is:
1). Restore the old content from wayback machine, many of them has more than a hundred pages restored.
2). Add two new articles related to my main keywords in individual PBN as inner pages.
3). Put a backlink toward my main page from one of new articles added in the PBNs.

The strategy DID NOT work very well because my money page was not ranking at all after I wait more than 6 months...
Now I decided to change the strategy below:
1). Remove the new added articles related to my niche.
2). Remove the non-juice pages (without backlinks on them) from the restored old content, leave those pages which has backlinks on only.
3). Add a new section on the hompage on each PBNs, put the some content that connects the topic of old content to the topic of my main site, for instance,
If the content of PBN is about "Game service", and my topic is "software review", then add some content about "game and software" in the section, then put a backlink in that section toward my main page.


How do you think of the new strategy? any inputs will be appreciated.
Thanks in advance.

 

[janist]

I have a serious question regarding the usage of PBNs, currently I have 40+ PBN using auction domains, each of them has 200+ RD, and what I have done is:
1). Restore the old content from wayback machine, many of them has more than a hundred pages restored.
2). Add two new articles related to my main keywords in individual PBN as inner pages.
3). Put a backlink toward my main page from one of new articles added in the PBNs.

The strategy DID NOT work very well because my money page was not ranking at all after I wait more than 6 months...
Now I decided to change the strategy below:
1). Remove the new added articles related to my niche.
2). Remove the non-juice pages (without backlinks on them) from the restored old content, leave those pages which has backlinks on only.
3). Add a new section on the hompage on each PBNs, put the some content that connects the topic of old content to the topic of my main site, for instance,
If the content of PBN is about "Game service", and my topic is "software review", then add some content about "game and software" in the section, then put a backlink in that section toward my main page.


How do you think of the new strategy? any inputs will be appreciated.
Thanks in advance.

Not surprising, tbh.

I wouldn't recommend to remove the new articles, fresh content is always good - not the biggest fan of repurposing wayback content. Having said that, DEFINITELY put your link on the homepage - the way you propose is fine, as long as you can surround it with 150-200 words of unique and thematically relevant content or so. Personally, I'd recommend to show the new articles as a full feature on the homepage on at least 20-30% of the PBNs. But that's up to you.

Additionally:
- Add internal links that point to the homepage on all those inner pages that have backlinks pointed to them - funnel the juice to your homepage wherever you can, use exact match anchors.
- De-index unnecessary pages (categories, archives, etc.)

 

[sashilover]

Not surprising, tbh.

I wouldn't recommend to remove the new articles, fresh content is always good - not the biggest fan of repurposing wayback content. Having said that, DEFINITELY put your link on the homepage - the way you propose is fine, as long as you can surround it with 150-200 words of unique and thematically relevant content or so. Personally, I'd recommend to show the new articles as a full feature on the homepage on at least 20-30% of the PBNs. But that's up to you.

Additionally:
- Add internal links that point to the homepage on all those inner pages that have backlinks pointed to them - funnel the juice to your homepage wherever you can, use exact match anchors.
- De-index unnecessary pages (categories, archives, etc.)

Thanks for the explanation and advice.
I am confused about how you put the content on the PBNs, you said you don't restore wayback content, I suppose you craft the new content(niche related) completely on the PBNs, then theme of the PBNs will change, in such case, will the link juice from the existing link profile loose since the content has been changed?

 

[janist]

Thanks for the explanation and advice.
I am confused about how you put the content on the PBNs, you said you don't restore wayback content, I suppose you craft the new content(niche related) completely on the PBNs, then theme of the PBNs will change, in such case, will the link juice from the existing link profile loose since the content has been changed?

We do rebuild inner pages that have links pointed at them, but we use fresh content instead of the wayback content on those. Overall our goal is to create topical relevance for our money site, not rebuild the previous domain 1:1 while funneling internal link equity to the homepage (where our link is usually placed).

 

[WorkingNow]

More golden tips being given out here, this thread is amazing.

Question regarding putting up new sites with purchased expired domains, are there any best practices you would recommend? Things to avoid doing?

You've mentioned you rebuild linked pages (but not with wayback content), do you throw up a "under construction" page while you build out the new site?

Thanks again for adding value here.

 

[janist]

More golden tips being given out here, this thread is amazing.

Question regarding putting up new sites with purchased expired domains, are there any best practices you would recommend? Things to avoid doing?

You've mentioned you rebuild linked pages (but not with wayback content), do you throw up a "under construction" page while you build out the new site?

Thanks again for adding value here.

We build the sites on a local server and then just move them over to the hosting droplet once done. We add a placeholder page typically, so the domain remains indexed.

As long as you avoid all footprints (talked about all of them a few pages back) - there's nothing more to check.

Use different registrars (no backorder or dropcatch ones pls)
Use good hosting+ private Whois (thanks GDPR for making it free)
Rebuild the URL structure (at least those sites that have link pointed at them) and use the correct homepage version (www / non-www)
Use SSL
Use uniquely designed themes (4-5 premium themes from themeforest + divi/astra/oceanwp/generatepress + Elementor = bomb - outsource if needed)
Use fresh content if possible
Use internal links en massé to funnel the juice to the pages that need it (mostly homepage)
Keep OBL limited (unless you sell spots on the PBN)

 

[AnotherWallace]

First let me say thank you for all the great content. I was in the middle of setting up a PBN and lucky ready this post before I got too far. Apparently I was planning to doing a few things I now know I shouldn't.

I do have a question about the money sites though. Is it ok to link back to the PBN site from new content on the money site? Like a guest post exchange?

Thanks again for taking the time.

 

[Fussganger]

Hi,

A lot of people stop crawlers like Ahrefs, Semrush etc., does it create a footprint for Google? Like who else other than a PBN Site would go through the trouble of putting codes to stop crawlers?!

Also, a lot of sellers only offer reports and/screenshots for safety. If I point them on a new website, wouldn't these links show up in my GSC eventually?

Thanks,

 

[janist]

First let me say thank you for all the great content. I was in the middle of setting up a PBN and lucky ready this post before I got too far. Apparently I was planning to doing a few things I now know I shouldn't.

I do have a question about the money sites though. Is it ok to link back to the PBN site from new content on the money site? Like a guest post exchange?

Thanks again for taking the time.

Thanks for the kind word. I personally would never link back to the PBN. What's the point?

Instead I suggest you create some decent t2 links to your PBNs to pass some additional link equity.

Hi,

A lot of people stop crawlers like Ahrefs, Semrush etc., does it create a footprint for Google? Like who else other than a PBN Site would go through the trouble of putting codes to stop crawlers?!

Also, a lot of sellers only offer reports and/screenshots for safety. If I point them on a new website, wouldn't these links show up in my GSC eventually?

Thanks,

Yep, that's why we don't really block crawlers. We block some IP ranges, but that's about it.
Yes, they will show in GSC eventually.

 

[janist]

After catching up with work, I'm open for more questions you may have in regards to PBNs.

 

[fredd66]

Thank you for this brilliant thread, I was wondering why you dont recommend the use of a drop catching service?

Also, would you use a domain that has not been used as part of a pbn but has had a previous redirect? If not, why not?

Thanks