Is Blackhat SEO dying out? [Serious]

[aadelmalik]

People who say buying traffic is easier than SEO, have probably never bought a single click. Buying traffic is ridiculessly competative and non profitable for those seeking instant results (which is why you moved from seo right?)

I've been doing SEO since 2011 and I've been buying traffic since 2012. From PPV to Facebook Ads. I've tried everything.

Both work of course but SEO is far better and maybe 10 times easier!

Buying traffic is easy, 2 minutes away from Youtube and you know 99% that you need to know. Congratulations, now you are competing with billions of indians, pakistanis, bangledashi internet markerts that can't do seo. Every paid traffic source works the same way: auction based. The more people buying traffic the higher the cost. What I paid $10 in 2014 now I pay $100 for the same anount of traffic. People spending $10k to make $11k or $1k profit kills those spending $100 to make a profit.

The average CPM for US traffic currently is at $20 for 1000 impressions (quality traffic). Unless you are selling cocain I have no idea how are you going to profit from that cost.

With SEO on the other hand you have tons of options in tweaking, from different types of links to different types of content, a gazillion options to rank which does not cost as much as testing on paid traffic.

On paid traffic you can't do anything other than what the network tells you to. Testing is just spending money to get results, the spending again to see of results improved.

And it's not instant results. It took me 2-3 months to find a profitable campaign, which keeps dying after 2-3 months when a shit ton of people find it and run it.

I would gladly spend those 2-3 months on an SEO site. I still have sites from 2012 brining me profit.

In conclusion: If you hate competition and have a small budget (less than $50k per month) don't bother with paid traffic and stick to SEO.

Here is another example. I have a lead-gen site which ranks on second page. Very high competative keyword, 75,000 searches. Adwords CPC is $30 per click. It took me 4 months and $5,000 to get there. It brings a small portion of those searches, which is not bad, somewhere are 50-100 clicks per day.

If I had spend those $5k on adwords I would get 166 clicks, I would made around $1,500 (according to my current EPC) in leads payouts.

So not only would I make ZERO profit but with that budget I get traffic and leads every day now for a one time SEO cost.

SEO is awesome, you just have to adapt to the changes. If you can't adapt to SEO changes you will never adapt to paid traffic changes as they are way harder.

So stick with SEO and thank me later for not wasting 3 years of your life adapting to paid traffic, like I did.

EDIT: Sorry for the wall of text.

 

[donkey-kong]

People who say buying traffic is easier than SEO, have probably never bought a single click. Buying traffic is ridiculessly competative and non profitable for those seeking instant results (which is why you moved from seo right?)

I've been doing SEO since 2011 and I've been buying traffic since 2012. From PPV to Facebook Ads. I've tried everything.

Both work of course but SEO is far better and maybe 10 times easier!

Buying traffic is easy, 2 minutes away from Youtube and you know 99% that you need to know. Congratulations, now you are competing with billions of indians, pakistanis, bangledashi internet markerts that can't do seo. Every paid traffic source works the same way: auction based. The more people buying traffic the higher the cost. What I paid $10 in 2014 now I pay $100 for the same anount of traffic. People spending $10k to make $11k or $1k profit kills those spending $100 to make a profit.

The average CPM for US traffic currently is at $20 for 1000 impressions (quality traffic). Unless you are selling cocain I have no idea how are you going to profit from that cost.

With SEO on the other hand you have tons of options in tweaking, from different types of links to different types of content, a gazillion options to rank which does not cost as much as testing on paid traffic.

On paid traffic you can't do anything other than what the network tells you to. Testing is just spending money to get results, the spending again to see of results improved.

And it's not instant results. It took me 2-3 months to find a profitable campaign, which keeps dying after 2-3 months when a shit ton of people find it and run it.

I would gladly spend those 2-3 months on an SEO site. I still have sites from 2012 brining me profit.

In conclusion: If you hate competition and have a small budget (less than $50k per month) don't bother with paid traffic and stick to SEO.

Here is another example. I have a lead-gen site which ranks on second page. Very high competative keyword, 75,000 searches. Adwords CPC is $30 per click. It took me 4 months and $5,000 to get there. It brings a small portion of those searches, which is not bad, somewhere are 50-100 clicks per day.

If I had spend those $5k on adwords I would get 166 clicks, I would made around $1,500 (according to my current EPC) in leads payouts.

So not only would I make ZERO profit but with that budget I get traffic and leads every day now for a one time SEO cost.

SEO is awesome, you just have to adapt to the changes. If you can't adapt to SEO changes you will never adapt to paid traffic changes as they are way harder.

So stick with SEO and thank me later for not wasting 3 years of your life adapting to paid traffic, like I did.

EDIT: Sorry for the wall of text.

Another point I will bullet point cause I've got work to do - order of traffic value:

1) recommend
2) organic
3) paid.

So to further your point above cpc works out even less valuable because of lost trust.(atleast in the niches I am in I have data to support that)

 

[FORSAK3N]

Organic is the top of their list? Excuse me for being silly, but do you actually use Google as a search engine? Because to me, if we discount the now 4 ads Google has at the top of a "search engine" We are greeted with another 6 - 7 "search terms" this is to give a better "user experience". Now forgive me if I'M wrong. If I wanted 300 Amazon products ect........ forced down my throat, I'd have fucking well searched the well fucking known Amazon website. So what actually is Google offering in terms of "user experience"? Apart from abusing their power to rake in money from the big boys. Seems like monopoly abuse to me.

I am not commenting on their monopoly or how a brand like Amazon dominates a product search (which they do not fyi they might have top spot but they have little position in say shopping option or other platforms. Google is very focused on suer experience this is so obvious - mobile, bounce rate, popups, adwords, etc etc all affecting search even when those searches go to Google related topics ... yes they have ads you can buy but MANY studies show those ads are ignored and google knows this ... they also know they must serve the customer content they want or else a new search engine can unseat them in a year just like earthnet to citysearch to yahoo to google to ....... they spend way more time on organic search results then anything else in their search product WAY MORE $$$ developing it and adjusting it ... it is very basic and very easy to see

 

[mm34505]

Its deff not dying, people just do not have patients anymore and think links are indexed and improve results right away

 

[Poker Rakeback Mafia]

Its deff not dying, people just do not have patients anymore and think links are indexed and improve results right away

Links do improve results as soon as they are indexed!

 

[jacker818]

Haha or running a 15k per month legit registered business from over 10 years of applied experience. Shut up and go back to fiverr gigs noob

Where did you assume fiver gigs were even used in any of my seo campaigns dick head?

 

[Henry IV]

Where did you assume fiver gigs were even used in any of my seo campaigns dick head?

In your post just before the one you are referring to you imply that the only way that someone could be seeing SEO success is if they have lots of spare time due to living with their parents presumably with no job.

I was implying that maybe the reason you aren't seeing success is that you buy shitty services from fiverr, or at least BHW as evidenced by all your "samples plz" posts in loads of shitty sales threads here xD

I was drunk and being obnoxious at the time though so do excuse me, I'm sure your link building is beautiful

 

[jacker818]

In your post just before the one you are referring to you imply that the only way that someone could be seeing SEO success is if they have lots of spare time due to living with their parents presumably with no job.

I was implying that maybe the reason you aren't seeing success is that you buy shitty services from fiverr, or at least BHW as evidenced by all your "samples plz" posts in loads of shitty sales threads here xD

I was drunk and being obnoxious at the time though so do excuse me, I'm sure your link building is beautiful

Samples please? Look at the type of link services those are posted on moron. Typical Web 2.0 services, content services and PBN builders for my existing PBN domains some of which I've paid 4 digits for. Just because I try to take some of my SEO load off doesn't mean I don't know wtf I'm doing.

This dumb fuck thinks he's an seo because he purchases "good" seo packages like aura rank. Your a fucking joke.

Next time you are drunk and feel like being obnoxious stand in front of a mirror and slap yourself. Don't get on your computer and try to act like a wise ass.

 

[living2xl]

I've made literally tens of thousands from pure BHSEO from 2007 to now though

The fuck? 10's of thousands? since 2007......--- If you know any math that looks like you must have lived like a begger or would be better off signing on lol
Not to brag but ive made 100's of thousands per year since 2007

Well personally my first SEO success was with SENuke back in the day which I found on this forum

First you say youve been having bh success since 2007 then you say when you got on this forum which is per your join date in 2014

what people not do to look "cool" online

Also dont insult people without knowing them

 

[fc-dh]

People who say buying traffic is easier than SEO, have probably never bought a single click. Buying traffic is ridiculessly competative and non profitable for those seeking instant results (which is why you moved from seo right?) .

Because i am one of those people i will respond to yoru bullshit, i have been in SEO since 2003, those were the days you could make a fortune with a banner and some porn pics, or the early days of adsense when you had automated sites build with a simple PHP script (called RGSM or something like that) so i have been around the block a view times so i know that the fuck i am talking about, now i buy traffic, mainly from facebook and Instagram and NO it is not more expencive that SEO.

Both work of course but SEO is far better and maybe 10 times easier!

No it is not

Buying traffic is easy, 2 minutes away from Youtube and you know 99% that you need to know. Congratulations, now you are competing with billions of indians, pakistanis, bangledashi internet markerts that can't do seo.

Really? Please show me some data on that, cus i haven't seen them around, these "billions of indians, pakistanis, bangledashi internet markerts that can't do seo" and i am in this game for a while now

Every paid traffic source works the same way: auction based. The more people buying traffic the higher the cost. What I paid $10 in 2014 now I pay $100 for the same anount of traffic. People spending $10k to make $11k or $1k profit kills those spending $100 to make a profit.

There is the problem, you don't know where and how to get cheaper clicks

The average CPM for US traffic currently is at $20 for 1000 impressions (quality traffic). Unless you are selling cocain I have no idea how are you going to profit from that cost.

Really, again show me the data on that as i am paying $1.50- $2- CPP (cost per purchase) on a $17,50 product

With SEO on the other hand you have tons of options in tweaking, from different types of links to different types of content, a gazillion options to rank which does not cost as much as testing on paid traffic.

Really and you don't find any billions of indians, pakistanis, bangledashi internet marketers that can do SEO, right? 0_o

On paid traffic you can't do anything other than what the network tells you to. Testing is just spending money to get results, the spending again to see of results improved.

Sure there are rules and yes you have to test just like in SEO, you have to test to see what is ranking yoru site and you have to wait months for yoru SEO results, i guess you don't value time, but i do.

And it's not instant results. It took me 2-3 months to find a profitable campaign, which keeps dying after 2-3 months when a shit ton of people find it and run it.

Exactly my point 2/3 months before you see any results, i spend $50- and in a day oi will know if a campaign will work ortnot

I would gladly spend those 2-3 months on an SEO site. I still have sites from 2012 brining me profit.

Again you don't value time like i do, that is fine but don't pretend that you're better in an6y way shape or form... i am betting that you are the one that has never paid a single dime in paid traffic, but that is just a guess of course.

In conclusion: If you hate competition and have a small budget (less than $50k per month) don't bother with paid traffic and stick to SEO.

I am not going to quote the rest of yoru nonsense on paid traffic as you clearly demonstrated that you have no idea of what the possibilities are when it comes to paid traffic, but i know lots about SEO and the time it takes to test and the money you have to spend to rank for the keywords that matter and the fact that it will only get worse as Google is a greedy motherfucker.

 

[donkey-kong]

The fuck? 10's of thousands? since 2007......--- If you know any math that looks like you must have lived like a begger or would be better off signing on lol
Not to brag but ive made 100's of thousands per year since 2007

First you say youve been having bh success since 2007 then you say when you got on this forum which is per your join date in 2014

what people not do to look "cool" online

Also dont insult people without knowing them

Henry, don't hide lad you've a good name to live up to and he's made reasonable points, you've been called out.

I like you @living2xl you post good stuff and your profile pic has got my idea of a really hot bird too. You are a top bomber.

 

[donkey-kong]

Because i am one of those people i will respond to yoru bullshit, i have been in SEO since 2003, those were the days you could make a fortune with a banner and some porn pics, or the early days of adsense when you had automated sites build with a simple PHP script (called RGSM or something like that) so i have been around the block a view times so i know that the fuck i am talking about, now i buy traffic, mainly from facebook and Instagram and NO it is not more expencive that SEO.



No it is not



Really? Please show me some data on that, cus i haven't seen them around, these "billions of indians, pakistanis, bangledashi internet markerts that can't do seo" and i am in this game for a while now




There is the problem, you don't know where and how to get cheaper clicks



Really, again show me the data on that as i am paying $1.50- $2- CPP (cost per purchase) on a $17,50 product



Really and you don't find any billions of indians, pakistanis, bangledashi internet marketers that can do SEO, right? 0_o



Sure there are rules and yes you have to test just like in SEO, you have to test to see what is ranking yoru site and you have to wait months for yoru SEO results, i guess you don't value time, but i do.



Exactly my point 2/3 months before you see any results, i spend $50- and in a day oi will know if a campaign will work ortnot



Again you don't value time like i do, that is fine but don't pretend that you're better in an6y way shape or form... i am betting that you are the one that has never paid a single dime in paid traffic, but that is just a guess of course.



I am not going to quote the rest of yoru nonsense on paid traffic as you clearly demonstrated that you have no idea of what the possibilities are when it comes to paid traffic, but i know lots about SEO and the time it takes to test and the money you have to spend to rank for the keywords that matter and the fact that it will only get worse as Google is a greedy motherfucker.

Hi there,
I bow to your superior knowledge on the bought traffic through social, my experience is zero, however I'll say this, products/service like I sell that range from 0-50k gbp or 0-100k usd, I don't get a look in on social, perhaps I'm not good at advertising or connecting with the right people through social but I am willing to concede it's possible since I know clients with social accounts....

My conversion goes through the roof if they find me page 1 organic google. This is factual data. Adwords my conversion isn't even a quarter. So it makes cpc 4 times more expensive already. Not pulling a fight here, genuinely interest in your input, I might be missing a trick on social...thanks for your lengthy previous post however it came over

 

[aadelmalik]

Because i am one of those people...

The possibilities are big on paid traffic and it can make you a millionaire, but...
If you start testing today, you will need around $100 per product per day to see if the product is profitable to scale. You need to test devices, creatives, placements, targeting and so on. But I managed to get it around $100 per product. It is that your product is so great that you make 10 sales on 1000 impressions, which cost $15 (for those impressions). If you divide that by 10 sales, you pay $1.5 per sale. Which is great, if you can easily find these products, I would recommend to just play the lottery as you are really lucky.

I've had one product, the price of $1.5 CPP lasted only 4 days, after a month it was $20 CPP. But if you join any dropshipping groups you will find that those that can't do SEO are also heavily testing products, eventually finding your product (it's not that hard, you just need to spy and check aliexpress).

This may not be the case for everyone. I have friends who made $400k this year with a $100k investment. And their product still sells.

My total revenue of paid traffic is around $100k, with around $50k in spending. I don't run paid traffic any longer and I don't make any revenue.
My total revenue of SEO is around $200k+, with around $10k in spending. At this moment I still make money from SEO and I don't spend anything currently.

I can easily sell my organic websites, where a paid traffic website is worthless.

There are niches on SEO that you can rank for less than 6 months that can cost less than $2,000 (which you'll spend testing on products anyways) and that can bring you steady $4k to $8k monthly, every month, for years (if done right). And you can sell this website for over 22x the monthly revenue, which is also a good amount of money.

Regarding time, once you have one site ranked and it brings you money, you can easily work on the second one.

Once again to clarify. I am not saying paid traffic does not work. It surely does and it can easily make you a millionaire.

But SEO for me is far easier. It costs far less, Google has hardly any control if done right and it's easier and trouble free in the long run.

PS: Facebook is far more greedy than Google. And since you run ads on Facebook, it's has far more control on your work than Google does on your SEO.

 

[jacker818]

The fuck? 10's of thousands? since 2007......--- If you know any math that looks like you must have lived like a begger or would be better off signing on lol
Not to brag but ive made 100's of thousands per year since 2007

First you say youve been having bh success since 2007 then you say when you got on this forum which is per your join date in 2014

what people not do to look "cool" online

Also dont insult people without knowing them

So i wasn't the only one that caught that lol.. He claims to have made tens of thousands in about 10 years that fucking sad.

If i were to average out just one of my IM ventures which i currently still own since 2007 that business alone has made me well over 800K..

GTFO this forum noob it's a better place without assholes like you.

 

[donkey-kong]

So i wasn't the only one that caught that lol.. He claims to have made tens of thousands in about 10 years that fucking sad.

If i were to average out just one of my IM ventures which i currently still own since 2007 that business alone has made me well over 800K..

GTFO this forum noob it's a better place without assholes like you.

The guys quite smart, I am sure he missed a 0 on that 10 - I am interested to see his response too.

 

[Samwacgamchy]

the mere mention of money can cause humans to kill each other lol

 

[mrpyrex]

but earning some serious $$ is going to take you eternity.

maybe for you...

 

[fc-dh]

The possibilities are big on paid traffic and it can make you a millionaire, but...
If you start testing today, you will need around $100 per product per day to see if the product is profitable to scale. You need to test devices, creatives, placements, targeting and so on.

Yes it is called running a business

But I managed to get it around $100 per product. It is that your product is so great that you make 10 sales on 1000 impressions, which cost $15 (for those impressions). If you divide that by 10 sales, you pay $1.5 per sale. Which is great, if you can easily find these products, I would recommend to just play the lottery as you are really lucky.

That is because YOU don't know what you're doing, doesn't mean that paid traffic is worse that tiresome SEO

[qoute]
I've had one product, the price of $1.5 CPP lasted only 4 days, after a month it was $20 CPP. But if you join any dropshipping groups you will find that those that can't do SEO are also heavily testing products, eventually finding your product (it's not that hard, you just need to spy and check aliexpress).[/quote]

Then YOU must have done something wrong, because i have campaigns running since january and they haven't gone up at all

My total revenue of SEO is around $200k+, with around $10k in spending. At this moment I still make money from SEO and I don't spend anything currently.

Enjoy it while it last as Google is moving more and more to own the first page and even the low level keywords will become very crowded

I can easily sell my organic websites, where a paid traffic website is worthless.

Again not true, i have sold a view of my web shops that run on facebook ads for some nice chunk of cash, because you build a brand and a email list it gets value, it also gets organic traffic even without doing SEO

There are niches on SEO that you can rank for less than 6 months that can cost less than $2,000 (which you'll spend testing on products anyways) and that can bring you steady $4k to $8k monthly, every month, for years (if done right). And you can sell this website for over 22x the monthly revenue, which is also a good amount of money.

You mean that you would be spending $2000 on paid traffic as you don't know what you're doing and what you're talking about, it is nice to be sure that some keywords that you can rank within 6 months (jesus) can make you that cash, but i know for a FACT that most of the time it is not more then a educated guess and you can be waiting 6 months and have nothing, no rankings or the keywords doesn't produced the amount of traffic as participated, so you are out $2k and 6 months while i can see with a $25- adspend if a campaign is going to work or not, see the difference here?

Regarding time, once you have one site ranked and it brings you money, you can easily work on the second one.

I am not going to wait 6/9 months (and seeing the direction Google is going it will be even longer) to rank a fresh site while i can make money TODAY!!!!!!

Once again to clarify. I am not saying paid traffic does not work. It surely does and it can easily make you a millionaire.

No you're saying SEO is better and more profitable, and it isn't anymore, and it hasn't been for a while now and it will only get worse.

But SEO for me is far easier. It costs far less, Google has hardly any control if done right and it's easier and trouble free in the long run.

Google already owns about 70% of the first page, second page rankings are useless and the long run? Google will take even up more space, within 3 years the whole fist page will be ads and blogs with local businesses and video and more ads, you'll be lucky if you get second page.

PS: Facebook is far more greedy than Google. And since you run ads on Facebook, it's has far more control on your work than Google does on your SEO.

They are all greedy.....

 

[judaculla]

If it is an algorithm, it can be gamed. That should sum it up.

Traditional "Blackhat SEO" methods might not be as effective, but something else might come up due to the changes.

I think the question is whether or not the resources needed to 'game' the algorithm are going to become cost prohibitive with respect to either initial investment, or time-to-return.

 

[Gogol]

I think the question is whether or not the resources needed to 'game' the algorithm are going to become cost prohibitive with respect to either initial investment, or time-to-return.

can you explain the question a bit more then!? I took it as english language but i am not too good in it lol.. Sorry..

The thing is, if you want to do bh seo right now, you need to think out of the box. If you follow the same old methods, your money is (again.. This might not be exactly true.. But more often than not.. You are gonna waste it) gonna end up in drain.