your thought on PBNs

23cromij · Jan 11, 2023

how effective are they.

how many blogs do you need to be effective? 2? 20?

when building a pbn how neccecary isit that you purchase aged domains with existing DA / PA (can a mixture of aged and new domains work well)

im also interested to know you're thoughts / experiences and insights into PBNs in SEO..

thanks for taking the time to read this, i look forward to your valuable response

awesomewebsites · Jan 11, 2023

All reputable sellers here use aged domains for PBNs also. Selecting the right aged domain is also an art which you will learn with time.

homeriscool · Jan 11, 2023

The answer is......it depends.

If you use a good quality pbn it can blast your website to the moon!

Use a cheap one and, well.......meh.

You will still be flipping burgers at Mcdonalds.

I personally use @splishsplash PBN and had great results.

But it's not the cheapest.......

23cromij · Jan 11, 2023

homeriscool said:
The answer is......it depends.

If you use a good quality pbn it can blast your website to the moon!

Use a cheap one and, well.......meh.

You will still be flipping burgers at Mcdonalds.

I personally use @splishsplash PBN and had great results.

But it's not the cheapest.......

This didn't answer any of my questions I'm not looking to hire one I'm creating one, this comment seems like a spam sale

Ashk881 · Jan 11, 2023

23cromij said:
how effective are they.

As above commentators said, it depends. Effectiveness of a PBN is proportional to the effort (measured either in time or money invested) put into making and maintaining it.

23cromij said:
how many blogs do you need to be effective? 2? 20?

Google does not care about number. What it cares about is "link equity". If your PBN consists of The New York Times and The Verge, it would outmatch a network with 2000 sites.

But having a network with just 2 sites also puts you in the "sus radar". Google would think "Why are these 2 high reputation sites linking to this new site frequently instead of other reputable sites? And why do they have the exact same anchor texts?" And before you'd think your next move, your PBN's busted.

23cromij said:
when building a pbn how neccecary isit that you purchase aged domains with existing DA / PA (can a mixture of aged and new domains work well)

DA/PA are stats to measure link equity. If you do not buy an aged domain with link equity for your PBN, you have to build that equity yourself. Buying an aged domain is basically investing money instead of time for the effort of building that equity yourself.

23cromij said:
im also interested to know you're thoughts / experiences and insights into PBNs in SEO..

As said, a PBN is as good as the effort put into it. Get a genuine network of websites that are independent money sites on their own and you will bank. Get low quality ones that die after 6 months and you prolly won't.

tazarbm · Jan 11, 2023

23cromij said:
This didn't answer any of my questions I'm not looking to hire one I'm creating one, this comment seems like a spam sale

@homeriscool is a good member, I've never seen him spamming, so don't pick on him

To your questions...

23cromij said:
how effective are they.

very (if done properly, that is)

Here's a guide written by @janist that will help you understand how to set up PBNs that work wonders:
https://www.blackhatworld.com/seo/the-ultimate-pbn-guide.1360359/

23cromij said:
how many blogs do you need to be effective? 2? 20?

like Homeriscool said, it depends.

But IMO, having a PBN only makes sense if you're in tough, profitable niches. If you like less popular, less profitable niches setting up and maintaining a PBN is overkill, and even expensive.

But there's no real answer to how many sites you need to have in your PBN because it depends on how many RDs you need and how good the sites in your PBN are.

23cromij said:
when building a pbn how neccecary isit that you purchase aged domains with existing DA / PA (can a mixture of aged and new domains work well)

it's not necessary, per se, but it can definitely help because you'll get better results, faster, if the expired domains are good

paisawaisa · Jan 11, 2023

A PBN with 2 blogs can be more impactful than with 20 depending on metrics of the blogs.

homeriscool · Jan 11, 2023

I wasnt spamming, I was just sharing my experience.

I have nothing to gain by recommending a PBN seller.

However, I will admit to not reading your post properly......I skimmed the first 2 lines and left a quick message.

I've punched myself in the face twice as punishement.

My apologies.

23cromij · Jan 11, 2023

homeriscool said:
I wasnt spamming, I was just sharing my experience.

I have nothing to gain by recommending a PBN seller.

However, I will admit to not reading your post properly......I skimmed the first 2 lines and left a quick message.

I've punched myself in the face twice as punishement.

View attachment 238883

My apologies.

Its okay buddy il let you off just shoot me over a domain with DA/PA 50 and we call it even

23cromij · Jan 11, 2023

Some excellent replies guys thanks for sharing the knowledge,

A few more questions raised..

Should I be creating page links for the old do follow backlinks only? Or also include no follow?

What would be the minimum DA/PA worth while.. What I mean by this is if I'm buying aged doms with DA/PA 35 for 50 dollars is this a realistic target to grow a network of 20 sites with these sites to have worthwhile strength or are those metrics to highly priced

How important isit to create backlinks that point to my pbn sites and how isit best to create these, simply by commenting site links on forums and socials? Using gsa?

homeriscool · Jan 11, 2023

23cromij said:
Some excellent replies guys thanks for sharing the knowledge,

A few more questions raised..

Should I be creating page links for the old do follow backlinks only? Or also include no follow?

What would be the minimum DA/PA worth while.. What I mean by this is if I'm buying aged doms with DA/PA 35 for 50 dollars is this a realistic target to grow a network of 20 sites with these sites to have worthwhile strength or are those metrics to highly priced

How important isit to create backlinks that point to my pbn sites and how isit best to create these, simply by commenting site links on forums and socials? Using gsa?

Without mentioning names.....I've read some sellers are spending hundreds or thousands of $$$ on domains to be used as PBNs.

The competition is fierce by all accounts.

If domains with high metrics are so cheap....why?

I could be completely wrong as I'm no expert

tazarbm · Jan 11, 2023

23cromij said:
Should I be creating page links for the old do follow backlinks only? Or also include no follow?

for nofollow, too. Sites that only have d0-follow links scream SEO to google, and google doesn't like SEOs (well, link builders at least...) because it's not natural for sites to only have dof0ll0w links

Besides, if the nofollow links come from highly trusted / reputable sites you most definitely want those backlinks

23cromij said:
What would be the minimum DA/PA worth while.. What I mean by this is if I'm buying aged doms with DA/PA 35 for 50 dollars is this a realistic target to grow a network of 20 sites with these sites to have worthwhile strength or are those metrics to highly priced

whatever your pocket allows as long as it's real DA.

And speaking of real DA... I seriously doubt that you can acquire a DA35 domain for $50. I mean, if you manage to find a good expired domain for that price in today's crazy domaining competition kudos to you! But most likely, those stats are not real

23cromij · Jan 11, 2023

tazarbm said:
for nofollow, too. Sites that only have d0-follow links scream SEO to google, and google doesn't like SEOs (well, link builders at least...) because it's not natural for sites to only have dof0ll0w links

Besides, if the nofollow links come from highly trusted / reputable sites you most definitely want those backlinks

whatever your pocket allows as long as it's real DA.

And speaking of real DA... I seriously doubt that you can acquire a DA35 domain for $50. I mean, if you manage to find a good expired domain for that price in today's crazy domaining competition kudos to you! But most likely, those stats are not real

Thanks for this, what do you mean the stats wouldn't be real?

tazarbm · Jan 11, 2023

23cromij said:
Thanks for this, what do you mean the stats wouldn't be real?

I mean, they are real but they could be inflated artificially by using low / no value links (redirects, spam) and other black hat tricks. It happens a lot with DA

splishsplash · Jan 11, 2023

Domains are ridiculously expensive now.

They're so expensive I don't even expand my own pbn business. I've moved into SaaS.

Recently I spent about $40k on new domains, and ended up with 9 domains. It's *insane*. The difference is I'll be using those domains for AI content money sites, as they're just not profitable as pbns.

The market is jam packed with high end buyers who want domains to build money sites on. Nothing like it was 5-6 years ago.

You can still find some ok domains with drop catching, but even then most of the good ones will automatically go to a namejet or dropcatch.com auction because multiple people placed a drop catch order.

The pbn game really is over. It's easier to just do outreach as a small scale SEO'er with your own site.

Back when I started with pbns in 2015 I bought like 20 expired domains that cost me about $250 minus a few hundred on tools to find them. I was able to rank my first amazon review site. Which was 1 5k article with 5x500 word support articles. Totally different days.

You can get some ok'ish domains for $200-$300, and sometimes you win a dropcatch for $79.

The problem is the level of domain you now get for $200-$300 doesn't really make it good value for money when you factor in everything required these days to make them look real. Design, content, heck even AI content if you really want to make a good property. You're looking at another couple hundred $ at least to set it up. $500-$1k if you want to set it to the level that's required these days.

Just 4 years ago you could get an amazing domain at auction for $300. Heck, you could get decent ones for $50, and back then you before machine learning evolved you could just slap up a basic website and get a boost from your homepage link.

You're better off just spending that money on outreach.

pbns are, finally, sadly, dead.

People with existing networks, who were able to build them before they got too expensive are still able to utilize their assets, but trying to build a cost-effective, value-effective network is impossible.

tazarbm · Jan 11, 2023

splishsplash said:
pbns are, finally, sadly, dead.

I mean, if you have 30-40 money sites (especially in the same, or closely related markets) you have a high value PBN

23cromij · Jan 11, 2023

splishsplash said:
Domains are ridiculously expensive now.

They're so expensive I don't even expand my own pbn business. I've moved into SaaS.

Recently I spent about $40k on new domains, and ended up with 9 domains. It's *insane*. The difference is I'll be using those domains for AI content money sites, as they're just not profitable as pbns.

The market is jam packed with high end buyers who want domains to build money sites on. Nothing like it was 5-6 years ago.

You can still find some ok domains with drop catching, but even then most of the good ones will automatically go to a namejet or dropcatch.com auction because multiple people placed a drop catch order.

The pbn game really is over. It's easier to just do outreach as a small scale SEO'er with your own site.

Back when I started with pbns in 2015 I bought like 20 expired domains that cost me about $250 minus a few hundred on tools to find them. I was able to rank my first amazon review site. Which was 1 5k article with 5x500 word support articles. Totally different days.

You can get some ok'ish domains for $200-$300, and sometimes you win a dropcatch for $79.

The problem is the level of domain you now get for $200-$300 doesn't really make it good value for money when you factor in everything required these days to make them look real. Design, content, heck even AI content if you really want to make a good property. You're looking at another couple hundred $ at least to set it up. $500-$1k if you want to set it to the level that's required these days.

Just 4 years ago you could get an amazing domain at auction for $300. Heck, you could get decent ones for $50, and back then you before machine learning evolved you could just slap up a basic website and get a boost from your homepage link.

You're better off just spending that money on outreach.

pbns are, finally, sadly, dead.

People with existing networks, who were able to build them before they got too expensive are still able to utilize their assets, but trying to build a cost-effective, value-effective network is impossible.

Surely if I can get 20 domains around 25 DA/PA make them all money sites and grow them naturally to 35 DA/PA il have enough of a presence to use that pbn to rank newer sites I create?

You mentioned you purchased an expensive domain to use as AI generated content money site, I'm currently doing this on two of my sites, I created a python bot that links to an AI framework and creates content based on keywords then auto posts and loops at intervals, then let's me know it did it on telegram. I'd be interested to know your thoughts on these sites could I shoot you a dm with links?

Awesome response by the way very helpful

homeriscool · Jan 11, 2023

tazarbm said:
And speaking of real DA... I seriously doubt that you can acquire a DA35 domain for $50.

Exactly what I thought....

tazarbm said:
I mean, if you manage to find a good expired domain for that price in today's crazy domaining competition kudos to you! But most likely, those stats are not real

Those cheap domains might have PBN links pointed at them to boost the metrics.....until you hand over the cash and then they will be removed.

A lot of Fiverr sellers were doing this.....not sure if they still do.

Real quality domains are expensive

splishsplash · Jan 11, 2023

23cromij said:
Surely if I can get 20 domains around 25 DA/PA make them all money sites and grow them naturally to 35 DA/PA il have enough of a presence to use that pbn to rank newer sites I create?

Yeah but that's defeating the whole purpose of what a pbn was used for, which was to easily just setup sites that would pass juice.

If you're going to build 20 money sites, then it's not a pbn you have. It's a network of money sites.

And then you're back to that age old problem that pbns solved in the first place.. Getting links

The reason pbns were good was because they came with links. If you're going to start with weak sites and get good links for them, then why wouldn't you just skip that, and get good links directly to your money site?

If you're treating the 20 as money sites, then you're just.. building 20 money sites, and you have the same problem, but with 20x more work.

23cromij said:
You mentioned you purchased an expensive domain to use as AI generated content money site, I'm currently doing this on two of my sites, I created a python bot that links to an AI framework and creates content based on keywords then auto posts and loops at intervals, then let's me know it did it on telegram. I'd be interested to know your thoughts on these sites could I shoot you a dm with links?

Awesome response by the way very helpful

Sure, you're welcome to show me them and I'll give you my opinion.

23cromij · Jan 11, 2023

splishsplash said:
Yeah but that's defeating the whole purpose of what a pbn was used for, which was to easily just setup sites that would pass juice.

If you're going to build 20 money sites, then it's not a pbn you have. It's a network of money sites.

And then you're back to that age old problem that pbns solved in the first place.. Getting links

The reason pbns were good was because they came with links. If you're going to start with weak sites and get good links for them, then why wouldn't you just skip that, and get good links directly to your money site?

If you're treating the 20 as money sites, then you're just.. building 20 money sites, and you have the same problem, but with 20x more work.

Sure, you're welcome to show me them and I'll give you my opinion.

Im hoping for a good backlink supplier but it's never easy isit haha anyways thanks again I sent you a pm

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